[new card discussion] Abyssal Persecutor

[sassfactor4]

Abyssal Persecutor
2BB

Creature Demon

6/6 Flying Trample
You can't win the game and your opponents can't lose the game.

=-=-=

Extremely efficient, easy enough to bounce or kill on your own.  4CC with a 4 turn clock may be too much for any aggro build to work with

[BruiZar]

This card is very good. I think it will see play in something like BUG fish or even tendrils instead of negator. Anything that can get 2BB actually. Getting rid of this card is easy.

[Yare]

Are the flying and trample really enough to separate this from Juzam Djinn and Grinning Demon, neither of which see play? Negator also can go the distance by himself, whereas this guy needs help.

I don't see this card breaking much new ground, if any, at least as a beater. I suppose some combo deck involving giving this card to the opponent might see play, but I doubt it.

[i_set_fire]

i can see this being tried instead of negator in TPS.  fast clock without having to sac your permanents.  TPS has so much bounce and so many tutors to find bounce getting rid of him and dropping a tendrils should be easy.  ill give it a shot when it comes out.

[Killane]

i can see this being tried instead of negator in TPS.  fast clock without having to sac your permanents.  TPS has so much bounce and so many tutors to find bounce getting rid of him and dropping a tendrils should be easy.  ill give it a shot when it comes out.

terrible card for TPS. It requires you to find and resolve a bounce spell (and most builds only play 1 that hits non-artifacts) in additon to itself four turns after you play it, and prevents you from Storming them out while beating them down. Negators are typically played against drains because they are a fast (just as fast) clock that comes down before coutnermagic, forcign them to divide their resources in order to try and deal with the Negators and then just plain loosing. Giving them 4 turns to find 1 coutnerspell (in a drains deck!?!?!) that, if they counter the right card, ABSOLUTELY PREVENTS YOU FROM WINNING is not.... NOT a good idea. Aweful card for TPS.

[Doomsday]

Grinning Demon with a worse drawback, I think it's junk.

[AmbivalentDuck]

IFF they ever print an instant speed Evil Presents analog with a black border, this card is suddenly solid.

Trash right now, pick them up for $3 a playset.  This is trash until they print a support card just like $25/each Dark Depths.

[TheDeadMan]

This card is very good. I think it will see play in something like BUG fish or even tendrils instead of negator. Anything that can get 2BB actually. Getting rid of this card is easy.

If your going to win with the swinging for X damage plan, why bother with the extra step of killing your own critter to win.

[the boogie man]

Why not play what I think is better than all the cards mentioned, which is tombstalker? evasion, usually cheaper, but maybe more of a midgame threat than this guy.

[BruiZar]

the reason to pllay this card is because its a platinum angel on a bigger stick and at an affordable cost. Vintage is all about speed and this guy forces players to deal with your threat right now before doing what their decks are supposed to do. You guys are looking at it for its 6/6 flying trample, when the strength of the card is its platinum angel ability

[Yare]

the reason to pllay this card is because its a platinum angel on a bigger stick and at an affordable cost. Vintage is all about speed and this guy forces players to deal with your threat right now before doing what their decks are supposed to do. You guys are looking at it for its 6/6 flying trample, when the strength of the card is its platinum angel ability

You do realize it's that you can't win the game your opponents can't lose the game, right? That's the drawback of the card, not the strength. This is not Platinum Angel.

[covetousrat]

Just combo it with Goblin Bombardment. Reduce your opponents life to 0 and bam. But I dont think its feasible in Vintage.

[BruiZar]

Just Tutor/Wish for slaughter pact/chain of vapor when you are sure you are gonna be winning

[Killane]

cause force of will sees no play, right? Platz is still boarderline playable- reverse platz is just aweful.

[zeus-online]

Hmm looks like a funny casual card though....lock everyone out and cast that card....Then it's a staring contest until someone decides to concede. Perfect.

[BruiZar]

i cant believe how negative you guys are. aggro strategies are typically too slow to combat combo decks and this card levels the playing field by not allowing your opponent to win, until the persecutor is gone. that means that you turn a lot of matchups where you would normally not have enough gas to win into draws (because your opponent would be at 0 life at the time this card is bounced).

[dangerlinto]

i cant believe how negative you guys are. aggro strategies are typically too slow to combat combo decks and this card levels the playing field by not allowing your opponent to win, until the persecutor is gone. that means that you turn a lot of matchups where you would normally not have enough gas to win into draws (because your opponent would be at 0 life at the time this card is bounced).

Ummm... Read the card.

It's *YOU* who can't win.  This is not a black Platz.  It's a  black REVERSE Platz.

You could beat your opponent down to -276 life and they'd still be in the game while you had this creature on the board.

[Doomsday]

i cant believe how negative you guys are. aggro strategies are typically too slow to combat combo decks and this card levels the playing field by not allowing your opponent to win, until the persecutor is gone. that means that you turn a lot of matchups where you would normally not have enough gas to win into draws (because your opponent would be at 0 life at the time this card is bounced).

Your opponent can still win, it's YOU who can't win with this junk on the battlefield.  I think you might be reading the card wrong.

[BruiZar]

omfg.

i went to bed at 5:30 am. obv this card is crap. I read it as you and opponent cant win the game. i need to catch up on some sleep cause i'm starting to hallucinate

[Duncan]

Cabal Therapy springs to mind, as it's on-color and an uncounterable way to get rid of this creature.

[TheBrassMan]

Cabal Therapy springs to mind, as it's on-color and an uncounterable way to get rid of this creature.

There are lots of uncounterable ways to get rid of this guy.  Cabal Therapy is likely the best, something like Chain of Vapor is completely unnecessary.  That said I'm not sure there are any vintage decks that a 4 mana 6/6 really makes better.

[Doomsday]

Will the trample and flying be relevant enough that it's worth making a two card combo for a 6/6 for 2BB?  Doesn't seem worth it.  I can't think of many likely sitautions where I'd rather have this than Grinning Demon (not that I would want either one lol).  Against Bitterblossom I guess.

[AmbivalentDuck]

I ran Plague Sliver and Juzam Djinn in my Sullivan Solution sideboard at one point to deal with the Jotun Grunt menace.  That said, how many black decks would rather block Tarmogoyf (with a creature that says you can't win?!??!) than chuck a removal spell at it?

[miguelmatix]

Come on... the card is not that bad.

Maybe it does not have place in Vintage. But in a legacy pox style deck it might work.
Cabal therapy, innocent blood, smallpox and even pox are good cards to get it out once you have reset your oponent's life (wich is not that hard along with Goyf).

Lotus petal and D. Ritual can put it in play very very fast.

I think it's well designed.

[Vegeta2711]

IFF they ever print an instant speed Evil Presents analog with a black border, this card is suddenly solid.

Trash right now, pick them up for $3 a playset.  This is trash until they print a support card just like $25/each Dark Depths.

By 3, you mean 70ish. SCG sold out of preorders of this card at 15 yesterday and are now doing a limited supply at 20. This card not only has a huge casual draw, but could be absolutely absurd in Standard.

[AmbivalentDuck]

The same thing happened with Grinning Demon during Onslaught's pre-release.  Like I said, pick them up at $3 a playset.

[miguelmatix]

Yes, some Standart potential too (But we can't ignore Baneslayer protection).
However i believe his place might be in legacy (cabal t. might be the reason).

Ps - Grinning D. sucks

[sassfactor4]

Yes, some Standart potential too (But we can't ignore Baneslayer protection).
However i believe his place might be in legacy (cabal t. might be the reason).

Ps - Grinning D. sucks

considering baneslayer has protection from demons Im pretty sure you can ignore it as baneslayer protection.

[miguelmatix]

Yes, some Standart potential too (But we can't ignore Baneslayer protection).
However i believe his place might be in legacy (cabal t. might be the reason).

Ps - Grinning D. sucks

considering baneslayer has protection from demons Im pretty sure you can ignore it as baneslayer protection.

Maybe i didn't explain myself. Baneslayer eats this guy. lol

[AmbivalentDuck]

*sigh*

Bazaar Trader, 1R
Creature -- Goblin
1/1
T: Target player gains control of target artifact, creature or land that you control.

Obvious "combo" is obvious.  Attack with beefy 6/6, then Donate as desired.