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Author Topic: [Card Discussion] Bojuka Marsh  (Read 7348 times)
zimagic
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« on: January 21, 2010, 08:54:49 am »

From MTGS, apparently it's:

Bojuka Marsh
Land - Common
Comes into play tapped
When it comes into play, remove target player's graveyard from the game
 {Tap}: Add  {B} to your mana pool.

Good against dredge?  Wink
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« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2010, 09:26:48 am »

This land is going to be amazing.  Getting a subpar but relevant colored mana source and hosing a GY will be strong.  I am going to try a single copy in Iona Oath, it looks to be the perfect 3rdish turn land drop.
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« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2010, 09:29:02 am »

hahaha, someone in R&D really doesnt like dredge.

Ravenous Trap is still better, as an instant., Leyline is still clearly better. But this trumps tormod's crypt and relic of progenitus I think.

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« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2010, 09:34:40 am »

I think the difference will be that Marsh can be maindecked as a 1 of without overly inhibiting a deck which gives many decks 1 MD answer to a yard. This would be much different than the current free for all which is known as the GY during game 1.
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« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2010, 09:56:34 am »

I agree.  This can be run as a singleton maindeck in a lot of builds much easier than any of the other GY hosers.  It can be tutored for or drawn into easily enough.  Or if you do draw it and don't need it, it's not completely wasted.   Anyway, It's always best to have a wide variety of GY hate.  This is certainly a viable card to add to the mix IMO.  I can see BUG Fish, Oath, and Tez decks expirementing with it.  Maybe even Dredge decks will play it too.

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CorwinB
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« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2010, 11:05:50 am »

The great part about this card is that it isn't affected by Unmask, Thoughtseize or Duress.
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« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2010, 11:06:32 am »

The great part about this card is that it isn't affected by Unmask, Thoughtseize or Duress.

Or FoW for that matter, given Fatesticher Ichorid.
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« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2010, 11:28:44 am »

It also isn't countered by Chalice of the Void at 0 like Tormod's Crypt is.

If this land is real it will be in my BRstax list ASAP.
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« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2010, 02:32:04 pm »

crop rotation, although not played often, is an instant, so that's a good way to remove someone's GY in response to will or something
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« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2010, 02:32:13 pm »

None of the usual Ichorid Anti-Hate cards will work against this. And unlike something like Tormod's Crypt, this card isn't dead on its own, either; it always taps for a mana. I'm surprised by the power level of this card, and will expect it to see play if it is real.
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« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2010, 03:15:45 pm »

I hope it's not real.... beating a dead horse much???
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« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2010, 03:16:51 pm »

None of the usual Ichorid Anti-Hate cards will work against this. And unlike something like Tormod's Crypt, this card isn't dead on its own, either; it always taps for a mana. I'm surprised by the power level of this card, and will expect it to see play if it is real.

yeah, despite the Crypt's abiulity to increase Storm count, this will likely take its place in my TPS sideboard.

Assuming I can find a Foil one, that is Wink lol
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« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2010, 04:08:58 pm »

Stifle is now Dredge's best defense unfortunately since that counters Wasteland, Crypt, Relic and this.  The other option is to do something that does not need the yard.  Maybe Stifle + Dreadnought for both effects.
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« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2010, 05:41:26 pm »

Will be a strong card in a crop rotation deck...if such a thing will ever really exist.
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« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2010, 06:48:49 pm »

5 color stax gets another white mana source that is a recurrable and unstoppable crypt effect.  Also, 5 color already utilizes a crop rotation or 2
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Ravager Sam
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« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2010, 08:22:31 pm »

This card is broken in half if it actually exists because of the fact that a dredge player has only one playable answer to it -> Stifle.  It has no impact game 1 against dredge with the Sharuum engine, unless the enemy has crop rotation as well.  However, it is definitely a house the second game; anyone looking to beat dredge should have a copy of this card as an auto-include in their 75.
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« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2010, 01:28:07 am »

5 color stax gets another white mana source that is a recurrable and unstoppable crypt effect.  Also, 5 color already utilizes a crop rotation or 2

First of all, it gives black mana.  Second of all it doesn't recur unless you waste it which takes 2 turns with a Crucible in play.  Third of all, this card can't be used durring the Ichorid players turn so it really doesn't do much.  I'm pretty sure this card is garbage.
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« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2010, 02:04:42 am »

Yeah and this land can cause some serious tempo loss.  Besides crop rotation it only tricks off on your turn so its not really that scary for dredge decks.
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« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2010, 02:44:41 am »

one downside is that you have to play it before your normal land drop for the turn. Unlike crypt or trap its not *really* a 0cc spell because you can't invest your land for the turn into resources looking for it. 
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« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2010, 02:48:53 am »


Is this already confirmed? 

I agree that this can serve as a singleton maindeck inclusions in decks sharing the same color or concept.  I am just not sure about the tempo loss when this is in your starting hand since it CIPT. 

But, with all the graveyard hate Wizards printed ever since Flash and Ichorid became popular, those decks just keep coming back and adapting to card developments and surprisingly they were better than ever I believe so.
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« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2010, 03:01:23 am »

i love that it cant be countered, displeased it can only be done on your turn.  fits well into vamp shell, but fell it would be played turn 3, when something more than a 2 drop needs to happen.
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« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2010, 07:46:21 am »

one downside is that you have to play it before your normal land drop for the turn. Unlike crypt or trap its not *really* a 0cc spell because you can't invest your land for the turn into resources looking for it. 

This card needs to be seen as part of a package of graveyard hate.  It's not good enough all by itself.  However, the advantages it has: dodging Chalice, Unmask, and Therapy/can be main decked as a one-of are significant.  This card forces Dredge decks to basically give up on any countermeasures outside of Stifle.  That's pretty big.
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« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2010, 07:57:37 am »

This card is very good if used properly. You cannot be too greedy and let Dredge mill themselves out too much. Instead you have to drop during a time when they have dredgers in the graveyard and maybe 1-2 Bloodghast or 1 Bridge. If you get too greedy and wait, they will have a window of opportunity to make some zombie tokens and kill you. If you crack it too early, they will not slowed down enough for you to seize the win.

I do not think this card kills Dredge, but I think that it makes the it more interesting because it forces their opponents to make a game deciding judgement call on when to remove the yard. And it is never obvious because you have to do it at your turn and cannot simply wait for Dredge to do something and respond at instant speed.

And if the opponent drops the land too early, than the Dredge player has only been slowed down but will eventually win.

The thing that makes this card very threatening to Dredge is that their enemies can run this card in combination with Voids/Jailers/Ravenous Traps. And that puts Dredge in a position that makes it very reliant on chance, luck, and judgement. If it has the Unmask when the opponent only has Ravenous Trap, it can win. If it has the Chain of Vapor when the opponent has Void out, it can win. And if the opponent has this land in hand, it needs to make good judgement calls on what to drop in their graveyard.

Of course there is the scenario where you draw a combination 2-3 of these hate cards. Then Dredge has most likely lost.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 08:03:40 am by kooaznboi1088 » Logged

Wagner
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« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2010, 08:13:26 am »

Quote
I do not think this card kills Dredge, but I think that it makes the it more interesting because it forces their opponents to make a game deciding judgement call on when to remove the yard. And it is never obvious because you have to do it at your turn and cannot simply wait for Dredge to do something and respond at instant speed.

Agreed here. Sometimes, Dredge will use Bazaar EOT and then again on his turn, making that card very ineffective alone since after 2 activations, you will probably have a swarm of tokens to deal with, yard or not. It's very good, not arguing against that, but I think it's also nicely balanced for dredge since you can't remove the yard in response to Bridge tokens like with crypt or Trap.
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« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2010, 12:03:25 pm »

5 color stax gets another white mana source that is a recurrable and unstoppable crypt effect.  Also, 5 color already utilizes a crop rotation or 2

First of all, it gives black mana.  Second of all it doesn't recur unless you waste it which takes 2 turns with a Crucible in play.  Third of all, this card can't be used durring the Ichorid players turn so it really doesn't do much.  I'm pretty sure this card is garbage.

yeah, mana symbols don't come through clearly on my phone.  On a positive note, black is more useful than white mana...so it just got better from my point of view. 

Recurrable:  sac it to smokestack, then play it back with crucible(this would remove a yard every turn)
                       Crop rotate it away to get strip mine, play it back, strip it...play again next turn(only 3 times in your 2 turns...)
                       Or- the way you suggested that eats land drops.(2 times in like 3 turns, but only if waste is not already in play)

I'm pretty sure that this land is good enough to be tested in that 19 land slot in 5color that I use for 1 bazaar/tabernacle/other generic utility land to be used with crop rotate.

Imagine the suprise on the face of a tendrils player when you crop rotate in response to Will on the stack!  Even if it is too slow for dredge, it is obnoxious against other(slower) yard strategies   

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« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2010, 12:13:56 pm »

I think the card is good enough for the Dredge match.  It's going to force the Dredge players to completely change their boards against you as you are now running a card that they can't hate.  I think Stifle becomes a must.  Obviously the card is most powerful with multipe copies of Crop Rotation in your deck, but it's still fine without. 

I don't know that I'm going to run it immediately, but I'm going to pick up some foil ones - this card will have its day in the sun.
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« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2010, 12:19:07 pm »

Yeah, i mean, doesn't this card also change the Stax matchup?  It can be used to shut down crucible recursion and Welders. 
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« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2010, 12:52:27 pm »

Knight of the reliquary has a bigger toolbox. Not that it is that relevant.
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« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2010, 01:57:22 pm »

Yeah, i mean, doesn't this card also change the Stax matchup?  It can be used to shut down crucible recursion and Welders. 

I think it might be the first grave hate that is worth playing vs. Stax. Normally, since the graveyard isn't the main strategy for Shops, it's not how I go about attacking it, but this card does that while also working against their main plan because it builds a board. I really like it. And dredge can't do anything about it.
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« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2010, 03:39:39 pm »

While a yard-hate card that is not effected by sphere or chalice looks fairly attractive against stax, this land doesn't make mana until after the stax platlyer has had a chance to waste it with a waste from hand.  And seeing multiples would slow your mana production down significantly.
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