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Author Topic: [Multiplayer] Wydwen, the Biting Gale  (Read 8125 times)
DubDub
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« on: February 06, 2010, 08:46:27 am »

I'm nearing completion of my 4th EDH deck, Wydwen, and thought I'd post the list.  Any suggestions before I declare her finished are welcome!  Being only a Vintage player competitively, I wanted to build a blue/black EDH deck.

General
Wydwen, the Biting Gale

Instants
Agony Warp
Commandeer
Countersquall
Cryptic Command
Diabolic Edict
Dominate
Fact or Fiction
Force of Will
Into the Roil
Mana Drain
Misdirection
Muddle the Mixture
Mystical Teachings
Mystical Tutor
Overwhelming Intellect
Recoil
Spin Into Myth
Vampiric Tutor

Sorceries
Ancestral Visions
Demonic Tutor
Knowledge Exploitation
Merchant Scroll
Notorious Throng
Rite of Replication
Time Spiral
Yawgmoth's Will

Enchantments
Bitterblossom
Dire Undercurrents
Phyrexian Arena

Planeswalkers
Jace Beleren
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Liliana Vess
Sorin Markov
Tezzeret the Seeker

Creatures
Sphinx of Lost Truths
Dimir Cutpurse
Glen Elendra Archmage
Glen Elendra Liege
Jushi Apprentice
Ninja of the Deep Hours
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Psychatog
Sakashima, the Impostor
Scion of Oona
Shadowmage Infiltrator
Sower of Temptation
Spellstutter Sprite
Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Sygg, River Cutthroat
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Thada Adel, Acquisitor
Tidespout Tyrant
Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar
Trinket Mage
Vendilion Clique
Venser, Shaper Savant
Wrexial, the Risen Deep

Artifacts
Crystal Shard
Dimir Signet
Proteus Staff
Sensei's Divining Top
Skullclamp
Sol Ring
Talisman of Dominance

Lands
Creeping Tar Pits
Bad River
Drowned Catacomb
Frost Marsh
Island x11
Jwar Isle Refuge
Polluted Delta
Reliquary Tower
Riptide Laboratory
River of Tears
Salt Marsh
Seat of the Synod
Secluded Glen
Snow Covered Island
Snow Covered Swamp
Sunken Ruins
Swamp x6
Underground Sea
Vault of Whispers
Watery Grave

Modified the list, which includes a more flexible manabase that accepts a few ETBT lands.  The standouts from new non-lands are: Sphinx of Lost Truths + Crystal Shard.  Muddle the Mixture and Commandeer are also new and very good.  Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar and Spin Into Myth are new to the list, but I haven't actually tried them out yet.

Necropotence was a notable cut, since I didn't feel I had enough lifegain in the deck (basically, Sorin Markov), and didn't want to go the 'Voltron' route with a lot of equipment.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 10:34:29 am by DubDub » Logged

Vintage is a lovely format, it's too bad so few people can play because the supply of power is so small.

Chess really changed when they decided to stop making Queens and Bishops.  I'm just glad I got my copies before the prices went crazy.
DubDub
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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2011, 09:28:45 am »

This deck has undergone significant changes several times in the last year.  I've just completed some testing and messing around on MWS, and settled on a list I hope will remain largely static for some time to come:

General
Wydwen, the Biting Gale

Instants
Agony Warp
Commandeer
Countersquall
Cryptic Command
Diabolic Edict
Dominate
Fact or Fiction
Force of Will
Into the Roil
Mana Drain
Misdirection
Muddle the Mixture
Mystical Teachings
Mystical Tutor
Overwhelming Intellect
Recoil
Spin Into Myth

Vampiric Tutor
Brainstorm
Blue Sun's Zenith
Dark Ritual
Frantic Search
High Tide
Jace's Ingenuity
Pact of Negation
Stroke of Genius
Thirst for Knowledge


Sorceries
Ancestral Visions
Demonic Tutor
Knowledge Exploitation
Merchant Scroll
Notorious Throng
Rite of Replication
Time Spiral
Yawgmoth's Will
Acquire
Black Sun's Zenith
Bribery
Damnation
Decree of Pain
Deep Analysis
Mind's Desire
Overwhelming Forces
Ponder
Preordain
Recurring Insight
See Beyond
Tendrils of Agony
Time Reversal
Transmute Artifact


Enchantments
Bitterblossom
Dire Undercurrents
Phyrexian Arena

Copy Artifact
The Abyss


Planeswalkers
Jace Beleren
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Liliana Vess
Sorin Markov
Tezzeret the Seeker
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

Non-Artifact Creatures
Sphinx of Lost Truths
Dimir Cutpurse
Glen Elendra Archmage
Glen Elendra Liege
Jushi Apprentice
Ninja of the Deep Hours
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Psychatog
Sakashima, the Impostor
Scion of Oona
Shadowmage Infiltrator
Sower of Temptation
Spellstutter Sprite
Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Sygg, River Cutthroat
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Thada Adel, Acquisitor

Tidespout Tyrant
Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar
Trinket Mage
Vendilion Clique

Venser, Shaper Savant
Wrexial, the Risen Deep
Mulldrifter

Artifacts
Crystal Shard
Dimir Signet
Proteus Staff

Sensei's Divining Top
Skullclamp
Sol Ring
Talisman of Dominance
Engineered Explosives
Everflowing Chalice
Gilded Lotus
Grim Monolith
Mana Crypt
Memory Jar
Mirari
Mirrorworks
Mox Opal
Nevinyrral's Disk
Rings of Brighthearth
Sapphire Medallion
Sculpting Steel
Silent Arbiter
Solemn Simulacrum
Steel Hellkite
Thran Dynamo
Wurmcoil Engine


Lands
Creeping Tar Pit
Bad River
Drowned Catacomb
Frost Marsh
Island x11
Jwar Isle Refuge
Polluted Delta
Reliquary Tower
Riptide Laboratory

River of Tears
Salt Marsh
Seat of the Synod
Secluded Glen
Snow Covered Island
Snow Covered Swamp
Sunken Ruins
Swamp x6
Underground Sea
Vault of Whispers
Watery Grave
Academy Ruins
Darksteel Citadel
Swamp


Among the changes in instants you can see a relaxation of board control and creature kill, replaced by fast mana and efficient card-draw.
'Creature kill' has shifted to the Sorcery slot, where we find Damnation and some friends.  Some 'cheating' cards have been added: Acquire, Bribery, Mind's Desire, and Transmute Artifact.  And Tendrils of Agony provides an alternate win condition that's rather, usually, a way to turn chained draw-spells into some life-gain.
A wholesale change in enchantments brings in The Abyss, which is amazing as long as it survives, and Copy Artifact, whose powerlevel is enormous given the artifacts now present.
There are now only four Non-Artifact Creatures, showing the massive departure from the initial {U} {B} fish-like creaturebase.  Of these four, one is really a counterspell/bounce spell, and two are glorified draw spells, while Tidespout Tyrant is just a win condition.
A slew of artifacts have been added, which mostly fall into three categories: fast mana, board/creature control, and copying.  The copying theme, with Mirrorworks in particular, can be insane.

Five lands tap for Mirrorworks.  End turn.  Untap. Four lands tap for Copy Artifact copying Mirrorworks, and a copy of Copy Artifact copying Mirrorworks.  Last land taps for Sol Ring, which itself (and its clones, in order) tap to make three copies of Sol Ring.  End turn.  Untap with five lands plus four Sol Rings.  Thran Dynamo and Gilded Lotus are similarly explosive, and Sculpting Steel provides more copying fun.

The number of lands has been trimmed, and may even be too low, but so far the fast-mana artifacts have made up for that nicely.  The fixing-only ETBT lands have gone, and the number of Swamps is way down, since I want mostly Islands for High Tide fuel.

The card closest to being cut is Engineered Explosives, which in a two-color EDH deck doesn't have a lot of range, and too often takes out my own stuff.  Recursion through Academy Ruins is nice, but not spectacular.  Everflowing Chalice, without a Proliferate sub-theme, is often underwhelming as well, Dreamstone Hedron might be better.
Logged

Vintage is a lovely format, it's too bad so few people can play because the supply of power is so small.

Chess really changed when they decided to stop making Queens and Bishops.  I'm just glad I got my copies before the prices went crazy.
conboy31
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« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2011, 12:18:47 pm »

Hey Dubdub, want to talk about this edh deck a little bit?
I made one two weeks back after a very long hiatus and it looks like we independently agreed on what the broken blue/black cards are and put them in our 100.

I use Oona, Queen of the Fae (clicked on yours because it is also b/u)

For reference, this is what I am currently using:

Lands + accel: 44
city of brass
polluted delta
marsh flats
verdant catacombs
misty rainforest
flooded strand
bloodstained mire
scalding tarn
seat of synod
vault of whispers
cephalid collosium
lonely sandbar
barren moor
dreadship reef
underground sea
river of tears
tained isle
watery grave
underground river
3 swamp
1 snow covered swamp
6 island
1 snow covered island
lotus petal
chrome mox
mox opal
mana crypt
sol ring
mana vault
dimir signet
grim monolith
basalt monolith
gilded lotus
dark ritual
cabal ritual
voltaic key
nightscape familiar

tutors/draw: 29
lim duls vault
vampiric tutor
dark confidant
demonic tutor
grim tutor
necropotence
imperial seal
nights whisper
senseis divining top
memory jar
scroll rack
flash of insight
fact or fiction
trinket mage
ponder
mystic remora
preordain
brainstorm
mystical tutor
frantic search
ideas unbound
windfall
deep analysis
recurring insight
diminishing returns
timetwister
thirst for knowledge
merchant scroll
gush

Utility/protection/recursion: 12
rushing river
chain of vapor
wipe away
misdirection
turnabout
force of will
mana drain
pact of negation
yawgmoths will
recall
ill gotten gains
memory plunder

Win cons: 14
etherium sculptor
cloud key
helm of awakening
magus of the future
future sight
tidespout tyrant
helm of obedience
leyline of the void
goblin charbelcher
mana severance
rings of brighthearth
power artifact
tendrills of agony
brainfreeze

What cards have been surprisingly strong for you?

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DubDub
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« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2011, 08:21:41 pm »

Hey Dubdub, want to talk about this edh deck a little bit?
Yeah, certainly, that's why it's here!

Quote
I use Oona, Queen of the Fae (clicked on yours because it is also b/u)
Oona is a good choice, one I went against because I didn't want to end up focused on infinite-combos (Power Artifact + Grim Monolith, especially).

Quote
marsh flats
verdant catacombs
misty rainforest
flooded strand
bloodstained mire
scalding tarn
I tried to be ultra-fundamentalist with the EDH rules, so I limited myself to only Polluted Delta for fetches, as it doesn't make reference to a basic land type that's not in the deck.  No knock on your choice to include these.  Additionally fetching less often leads to less time shuffling, which I prefer.

Quote
city of brass
cephalid collosium
lonely sandbar
barren moor
dreadship reef
tainted isle
underground river
These are basic islands in my list, basically, because I'm trying to maximize High Tide (and I could do more to that effect, Jwar Isle Refuge is probably not needed for fixing or gaining a life, so an additional basic island might be good).  Also, since I have fewer fetches than you I am less likely to have a Swamp to turn on Tainted Isle.

Quote
dimir signet
I hate Signets.  It's irrational, I know, but I hate them.

Quote
lim duls vault
This is a nice idea, though I'm not sure I want to spend too much time deciding what to place on top, when to ship five cards for five more.

Quote
grim tutor
imperial seal
Although I list Overwhelming Forces above, it's not a card I actually own.  Generally I have tried not to use proxies in my decks, and I wouldn't be willing to shell out for these guys just for EDH use.

Quote
nights whisper
Though they aren't in my list above, I would think either of Hoarder's Greed or Moonlight Bargain are better than Night's Whisper.

Quote
senseis divining top
memory jar
I'm considering cutting these from my list.  I feel like Top + Repeal is good, and Top + Predict is good, but I'll probably ending up not depending on mini-combos to do something worthwhile.  I haven't found I'm as able to capitalize on Memory Jar in Wydwen as compared to another deck I have, Radha, which can usually vomit out creatures on a Jar turn.

Quote
timetwister
The Time Reversal in my list should be Timetwister, since I'm not going to have use for Timetwister in Vintage any time soon (since it's suicide against pretty much every deck in modern Vintage).

Quote
gush
I have had a hard time taking advantage of Gush's alternate cost, and found myself more often casting it, which, at five mana is not as good as Jace's Ingenuity (which I do run), or Moonlight Bargain, as I mention above.

Quote
turnabout
This is a cool idea, thanks!  Mini-combo with High Tide, but also potentially able to 'Sleep' my opponents to protect planeswalkers for a turn.

Quote
etherium sculptor
cloud key
helm of awakening
magus of the future
future sight
tidespout tyrant
helm of obedience
leyline of the void
goblin charbelcher
mana severance
rings of brighthearth
power artifact
tendrills of agony
brainfreeze
As mentioned above, I'm not big on infinite combos in my casual format, Tyrant's interactions with fast mana not withstanding, since I just love that card.

Quote
What cards have been surprisingly strong for you?
I think Bribery probably has among the highest power level of any spells in the format.  And Acquire is right there (though it's still on probation for me, as a new addition), usually netting a huge mana accelerant, if not a fat artifact creature finisher.  I also really like Sapphire Medallion and Sphinx of Lost Truths.
Logged

Vintage is a lovely format, it's too bad so few people can play because the supply of power is so small.

Chess really changed when they decided to stop making Queens and Bishops.  I'm just glad I got my copies before the prices went crazy.
conboy31
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« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2011, 09:51:26 pm »

I have also been noticing that gush often gets cast for 5 mana and with the amount of draw 7s in my deck the drawback of shuffling away islands is very high.  This will probably get cut for something like jace 2, damnation, bribery.
Have you thought about re-adding trinket mage? It looks very strong in your list.

Of the lands you said you use basics instead, I would suggest giving the Cephalid Coliseum a hard look.  The times I have drawn into answers or wins with the card outweigh getting pinged or it being a non-basic.

Transmute artifact is card I want to squeeze in the deck.

I have noticed harmonic sliver, gaddock teeg, aladdin, are a real kick to the face.  The one guy powered out aladdin on t2 and I looked at my mana vault, mana crypt, etc and sighed.
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DubDub
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« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2011, 10:25:06 pm »

Have you thought about re-adding trinket mage? It looks very strong in your list.

Of the lands you said you use basics instead, I would suggest giving the Cephalid Coliseum a hard look.  The times I have drawn into answers or wins with the card outweigh getting pinged or it being a non-basic.

Transmute artifact is card I want to squeeze in the deck.

I have noticed harmonic sliver, gaddock teeg, aladdin, are a real kick to the face.  The one guy powered out aladdin on t2 and I looked at my mana vault, mana crypt, etc and sighed.
I would probably play Fabricate before Trinket Mage, because I find myself only finding Sol Ring with Mage, and the body is barely relevant.  Being able to find either Sol Ring or Wumcoil Engine for the same price is probably better.  Thoughts?

I'll try Cephalid Coliseum in the Jwar Isle Refuge slot I talked about.

Transmute Artifact is pretty nutty, I'd recommend it highly.

Pithing Needle or Go For The Throat might merit inclusion as another catch-all answer.  Although there are many (many, many, many...) artifact creatures worth killing, I'm again fundamentally opposed to playing one of the typical black removal spells that have a non-black targeting requirement.  Smother is another alternative (though Harmonic and Aladdin that you mentioned dodge it).  Actually, searching gatherer for less restricted creature kill turned up Predator, Flagship, which actually could fit a nice role in my Radha deck, which has had trouble with opponents' flying creatures before.
Logged

Vintage is a lovely format, it's too bad so few people can play because the supply of power is so small.

Chess really changed when they decided to stop making Queens and Bishops.  I'm just glad I got my copies before the prices went crazy.
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