[report] Hey, who let in all these Elephants? A First Place Report.

[LotusHead]

Ah, Dream Cache. I don't hold especially high expectations for that one, since Compulsive Research, which is often just better, wasn't good enough. And we tested that one quite a bit. Still, I applaud the out-of-the-box thinking.

I have been moving from one place to another in the last few weeks.  Digging through huge boxes of crap magic cards (finding anything keepable in them) has been my hobby as of late. Damn, Wizards has produced some shitty cards. I came across Dream Cache and Presence of the Master in the process.

Anyways, Dream Cache was suggested in a non-Gaea's Blessing/Krosan Reclamation build with only 2 or 3 creatures..  Compulsive Research does nothing to help the creature situation (but does get potentially +2 cards instead of +1 card).

[Phele]

But don't you guys think that Jace is making Oath into a controlish deck? The point of playing Oath is to hurry up your huge guy and win. Jace would seem to slow the deck down. Not saying that is a bad thing, just a different approach now.

This is an important point. I also do think that you can play Tez-Oath much more controlish and we build a list that already had some success. In these kind of lists, Jace probably could/should find a home. But Kooaz is right that by integrating Show and Tell and more creatures you are pushing the deck even more in the typical creature all in direction Oath always has been going. In these kind of deck Jace is probably too clunky.

[Evenpence]

Someone had mentioned tps earlier in the post and i had posted my horrid experience of running into fish playing main board true believers and being collateral damage to that it was somewhat relevant i was looking for more ideas on how oath plans to combat that when running into, you dont get to oath i win. Ya praying to not play dredge is just a bad plan and alot of the sideboard for dredge is relevant in other games. For instance, tormod's vs tezz game two so they can't go oops i got yags will i win is pretty good and needle is pretty versatile.

What do you take out to bring in Tormod's Crypt for game 2 against Tezz?  I agree that Tormod's Crypt is good vs. their Yawg Will, but you're also running the risk of drawing dead cards if they win a different way.

[turn3ionawin]

i took out a land i think in the two tez rounds i played vs tez and it worked well. Two of the game post board i went turn 1 duress and they had yag will i took a force and dropped tormods it slowed them down long enough for me to assemble a win.

[mistervader]

Well, I came in second in a small tournament today, losing only to Dredge, but here were the changes I made from Rich's original list...

1. I cut Lat Nam's for a Jace
2. I don't have full power 9, so I ran a Lotus Petal in one slot, then a Wasteland in the other slot.
3. I ran one Thoughtseize in one Top slot.
4. I cut a second Island since I didn't expect Fish at all, and ran one Misdirection in the slot. I didn't like it too much, and wished it were Thoughtseize.
5. I used Sphinx in the bot slot.
6. For the board, I ran Obeyline instead of Ravenous Traps. I wasn't sure about Bribery so Helm replaced that slot.

Why Sphinx? I just didn't like Spirit Tokens blocking Colossus, and then I get Oathed right back. Also, in the Belcher matchup, it was relevant that he couldn't weld the Sphinx out.

Anyways, Jace really overwhelmed my opponent when I dropped him against Ad Nauseam. I opened with Jace off a Lotus and an Island, then dropped a Petal for a Spell Pierce on his turn. I had excellent hand selection by then.

Does it make the deck more controllish in nature? Yes. Is this necessarily a bad thing? Not really. I personally feel that Jace was the MVP in that game, and he was clearly better than Top the minute I cast him. I find it hard to believe that Jace could be any worse than Top once he's cast, and I'm determined on keeping at least one Top anyways, since it's been heavensent against Tezz.

So to recap, would I cut one Top? Yes. And I'd put Jace in that slot. But would I want to put in Show and Tell? I'm still on the fence with that, because I feel that Thoughtseize was a good slot in the maindeck. It sure helped me against Tezz, Belcher, and Ad Nauseam, the three matches I played before facing Dredge in the last round of the tourney. I would definitely replace the Misdirection though. Either I get a second Thoughtseize, or one Show and Tell in that slot. I'd probably go for Thoughtseize.

[Tha Gunslinga]

Someone had mentioned tps earlier in the post and i had posted my horrid experience of running into fish playing main board true believers and being collateral damage to that it was somewhat relevant i was looking for more ideas on how oath plans to combat that when running into, you dont get to oath i win.

Either put together Key/Vault or Tinker out DSC and protect it.  Or run the one main Show and Tell and use that.  Or hardcast your creatures.

i took out a land i think in the two tez rounds i played vs tez and it worked well. Two of the game post board i went turn 1 duress and they had yag will i took a force and dropped tormods it slowed them down long enough for me to assemble a win.

You're the beatdown vs Tezz; I would not want Tormod's vs them; you should be winning faster than they can set up a big Will for the win.

[Anusien]

Oath+Iona lists seem pretty fragile to Bribery nowadays. You have no way to remove Iona opposing Iona from Bribery, and can only hope to Oath up your own if they Oath first. Is this an issue?

[Eye_of_the_Beholder]

At the last Breda Tourney I played a version with Jace instead of the 2nd Top. Going 4-2.
I didn't have the opportunity to cast it that much , but I used it's ultimate once.
I like the versality of the card, not only the brainstorm-ability but also the unsummon.
In testing I liked it against Tezz and the mirror. It's like an Uber-LoA without the need for 7 cards in hand.

[Cyberpunker]

Oath+Iona lists seem pretty fragile to Bribery nowadays. You have no way to remove Iona opposing Iona from Bribery, and can only hope to Oath up your own if they Oath first. Is this an issue?

If it resolves than it is an issue. But Bribery is very hard to cast.

[healo]

Im doing very good lately with Iona/Tezz build. Its basiclly Vroman build without some combo pieces like Flash of Insight, but its a bit more into control. I run Ancient grudge, Pernicious Deed, Tezzeret main. Its very similar to what Paul Mastriano finished 5th with some weeks back, but I play 18 lands opposed to Paul's 15. It can combo out very fast, but can also play control role pretty well. Very flexible deck guaranteed to lock out opponent after the first Oath trigger and you wont stuck with useless stuff in your hand, since its almost all business.

Bribery is almost always gg, but so is most of 5cc+ sorcery speed spells, liike Tezzeret, etc..

I can post my current decklist if someone is interested, so we can talk about it a bit.

I tried this Elephant Oath and its a bit harder to pilot, but a bit less fragile. Id say it almost always depends on your metagame, how sucessfull you can be with one, or another Oath build.

Basiclly, Oath strategies are very good, unless everyone is prepared and expecting it. Than you need to be a step ahead and pact something, what nobody expect - like Bribery. But this can be applied to a number of decks.

[Tha Gunslinga]

Oath+Iona lists seem pretty fragile to Bribery nowadays. You have no way to remove Iona opposing Iona from Bribery, and can only hope to Oath up your own if they Oath first. Is this an issue?

The deck is cold to Ali from Cairo too, what's your point?

Bribery is not even remotely game over.  You have at least 2-3 turns to set up Key/Vault or you can always get Terastodon/DSC and race.  Or you could be one of those folks running Sphinx of the Steel Wind, which should trump Iona pretty well.

[Rico Suave]

Bribery is not even remotely game over.  You have at least 2-3 turns to set up Key/Vault or you can always get Terastodon/DSC and race.  Or you could be one of those folks running Sphinx of the Steel Wind, which should trump Iona pretty well.

I've been playing a main deck Bribery recently in Oath, and since adding it I've played 5 mirror matches in tournaments.  Trust me, it is most definitely game over if it resolves. 

[Tha Gunslinga]

Bribery is not even remotely game over.  You have at least 2-3 turns to set up Key/Vault or you can always get Terastodon/DSC and race.  Or you could be one of those folks running Sphinx of the Steel Wind, which should trump Iona pretty well.

I've been playing a main deck Bribery recently in Oath, and since adding it I've played 5 mirror matches in tournaments.  Trust me, it is most definitely game over if it resolves.  

Well, I play this other card maindeck in Oath.  It also costs 3UU and is game over when it resolves.  But unlike Bribery, it's not dead vs 50% of the field.

[Cyberpunker]

Haha, I cut both   's

EDIT:

You guys should try running the 2nd Elephant in place of the   . It has been working great for me. Plus it has perfect synergy with the maindeck Show and Tell.

Gifts Ungiven with a creature in hand:

Show and Tell, Tinker, Time Walk/Yawgmoth's Will/Ancestral Recall/Force of Will, Demonic Tutor/Vamp Tutor.

Mystical Tutor now has another target (Show and Tell)

Having a creature in opening hand is no longer devastating, instead it is now very playable and sometimes even exciting if you can tutor for Show and Tell.

I don't like Tezzeret because he is very vulnerable and dies to Selkie's creatures and spirit tokens. Bribery is very situational and relies too much on your opponent's deck, and you should not be doing that if you want consistent wins in my opinion. My playstyle as Oath is to just go for the jugular as quickly as possible and spells just do not cut it for me because they are way too slow and unnecessary in my opinion.

/end rant.

[Tha Gunslinga]

I just like Tez because it's effectively a 5-mana Tinker that requires no sacrifice, just that you protect it for one turn, and will win you the game faster than DSC/Sphinx.  It also has numerous other uses; against James King recently I was able to play Tez after he countered my Time Vault.  I fetched up a Mox, then used it to untap Mana Crypt and Mox Sapphire to hardcast DSC, leaving me with a board position of Tezzeret at 6, 4 artifacts, and Darksteel.

[Odd mutation]

I wouldn't cut Tezzeret, as it is a necessary extra win condition and he's just really good.

I'm considering changing one Sensei's Divining Top to Jace, The Mind Sculptor because when playing control decks, he proved to be decisive.

I'm still undecided if I want to definitively change Lat-Nam's Legacy into Show and Tell. It would free up one space in the sideboard, as I have Rich's two Show and Tell in the side and I found myself siding the Lat-Nam's Legacy out a lot for at least one Show and Tell. But Lat-Nam's Legacy has more uses then just shuffling away creatures... If I change a Top to Jace, then I think I'll also change the Lat-Nam's Legacy for a Show and Tell.

Robrecht