urg fish in new meta

[the boogie man]

My friend just recently opened a shop, and i've been thinking about getting back into vintage. They haven't had any tournaments yet, so there's really no way to tell what the meta will be like. There will be proxies, so budget may or may not be a concern. My deck idea i a urg fish deck. here's the decklist, first of all:

4 wasteland
5 fetch
3 volcanic
3 tropical
1 strip mine
2 basic

3 mox
1 lotus

4 goyf
4 goblin guide
3 grim lavamancer
3 spellstutter
2 clique

4 force
3 stifle
3 spell pierce
2 daze
1 fire/ice
1 ancient grudge
1 hurkyls

4 null rod

1 mystical
1 ancestral
1 time walk

there is a ton of permission, and a good aggro quality, but there is a distinct lack of a draw engine.

The most questionable card would definately be goblin guide. he is potential card advantage for the opponent, but how many lands does the average vintage deck play? 17 or 18, maybe 20 at the most? he will draw your opponent a land about 1/3 of the time, and the other times you just get to see the next card in their hand. the damage output is good as well, and along with lavamancer, gets the damage through. lavamancer also makes your goyfs bigger than their goyfs, allowing damage through.

The combination of green/red allows for ancient grudge, which is excellent against vault and shops, and is basically uncounterable. hopefully all the permission holds out for stuff like goyf and guide to get through. sprite should help, countering spells and adding damage to the race. Any ideas? I thought about curiosity, which would be awesome on lavamancer.

[swawagon]

For Urg Fish I like: Fire and Ice, Gorilla Shaman. And Ninja of the Deep Hours has awesome synergy with Spellstutter Sprite.

I also think 4 Natures Claim in the sideboard is a great reason to run green. It's for Oath, Stax, and Time Vault combo.

In past fish decks of mine 3 Gorilla Shaman and 3 Null Rod was a good mix of artifact disruption and attackers.


Goblin Guide does seem pretty bad.

[serracollector]

Goblin Guide is horrible.  I would play mogg fanatic over him.  Also Lavamancer and goyf are BAD synergy not good synergy.

[honestabe]

I'd play bee sting before I'd play Goblin Guide

Gorilla Shaman is probably better

[pierce]

3 sprite and 4 null rod are both wrong. trust me on this one--i'm always looking to make sprite work, and have a few extra fish lists lying around with this guy.

try 3 null rod and 4 spellstutter sprite. you want multiple sprites, but not two rods.

consider adding trygon predator, as oath and stax are both very good right now.

fire/ice isn't good enough anymore. i'd run lightning bolt here, it kills more dudes. and i'd run more in the board.

finally, consider adding at least one sower of temptation. he's insane in the creature vs creature matchups.

[the boogie man]

Good points. I kinda just wanted to see if guide was playable in fish, but it makes sense that it sucks. it is good with ninja though!

so the changes I'm thinking are:

-4 guides
-1 fire/ice
-1 null rod
-2 daze

+3 gorilla shaman
+3 ninja of the deep
+1 sprite
+1 spell pierce

I usually don't like removing the fourth rod, but shaman seems to cover that area nicely. as far as burn goes, I really only played it because it's card advantage, so I might just rely on lavamancer for removal. He may also be able to clear chump blockers for ninja. and he blocks and kills a lodestone golem. sweet.

I know that lavamancer is disynergy, but I think that if played correctly, you can avoid shrinking your goyf into oblivion. just try not to remove things that the opponent doesn't have in his/her grave.

I'm not too sure on the predator, it would seem that grudge may be as good or better, at a more convenient price. if there were a ton of workshops, I could maybe see switching one or both of the cliques for predators, but that remains to be seen.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Guide and Wasteland do NOT belong in the same deck.  You'd probably have more luck with Goblin Vandal or mox monkey in that slot.

[TheShop]

Or Mons Goblin Raiders

[swawagon]

This is a list I've been testing.

I like it and the high mana count (24 sources) including full moxen, makes the whole deck play out differently than most fish lists.
4 Gorilla Shaman, 4 Wasteland, 1 Stripmine together are pretty disruptive on opponents mana. And they make Spell Pierce better into the later game.
10 total Faeries make Spellstutters pretty strong.
Spellstutters and Ninja have great synergy.
22 creatures make Ninja work fairly well, especially considering many have evasion.
2 Jace Mindsculpter could probably replace Merchant Scroll and Rebuild.

4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Rebuild
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Vendillian Clique
3 Sower of Temptation
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours

4 Tarmogoyf

4 Gorilla Shaman

3 Fire / Ice

1 Stripmine
4 Wasteland
1 Mutavault
5 Fetch
1 Island
2 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
1 City of Brass

5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus