help with life loss.

[divine storm]

my deck is a storm deck that uses necro/yawg bargen with future sight to cycle through 60% of my deck. my problem is that i run so many non artifact mana sources, and control cards (silence, force of will, mana drain spell pierce) that i dont always get my tendrils or tinker for colossus. so if i add a way to gain life other then tendrils... what would be the best choice? im specifically looking for life gain, not more tutors (im running all of them that i can).

[MEATROCKET]

Get better with the deck or make it better (like removing Future Sight and Silence).

If you see 60% of your deck and still can't kill with a Tendrils, then you're doing something wrong.  Filling it with cards that gain life will mean you have more cards that don't find your win conditions.

In any case, post your deck list.

[divine storm]

i disagree 100% with what you posted. silence stops people from interrupting my combo for storm count. no stiffles no misdirects ect.. .


and adding life gain when i tutor for my yawg bargen/necro potence allows  me, for example, to gain 8 life. that means 8 more cards and one to my storm count. also 8 life can keep me alive for one more round. the card im speaking of is "Rest for the Weary" 1+W land fall gain 8 life. i was just wondering if anyone knows of a card that cost one that give a similar ammount. remember i asked about  a life gain card not your opninion about how the deck works. sorry if i seem rude but you didnt even touch the question i asked, just broke my deck down without even asking for a deck list.

[policehq]

Children of Korlis.

But this is redundant and shouldn't be needed. When you play enough tutors, draw, and win conditions, Bargain should win enough games without gaining life.

[divine storm]

deck list:
artifacts:
mox x5
lotus
vault
crypt
sensei's top
helm of awakening
sol ring
darksteel colossus

enchantments:
future sightx2
necro potence
yawg bargen

other spells:
BLK;
demonic tutor
yawgwill
dark ritual
extirpate
tendrils of agony

WHT;
enlightened tutor
silence x2
rest for the weary (nothing better that i have found must have to fuel necro/bargen)

BLU;
thirst for knowledge (may turn into Impulse or compulsive research)
brain freeze (may come out for something better)
herk's recall
force of will x4
mana drain x4
spell pierce
echoing truth
ancestral recall
tinker
mystical tutor
brainstorm
time walk
ponder
twincast

land:
underground sea x4
gemstone minex4
blue fetch x3
tolarian academy
tundra x2
island

deck functions by getting futuresight out with either necro potence or bargen. mana drains fuel the deck. having the ablity to play off the top bypasses the "no draw step" flaw of those 2 cards. also allows me to cycle my deck even faster then normal by choosing my quick cast cards and playing off my deck rather then paying life to place them in my hand. helm future sight and top are an infinate combo, i have been playing for years, that i love. i feel as though its my combo even though other people played it in tourneys after i built a first draft with gifts ungiven in kamagawa block. this deck "works" 90% of the time but the only time it dosent is when i run out of life to cycle cards out. thats why im playing a quick to cast life gain card like "rest for the weary" thats 8 more cards when i combo off to get a tinker for colossus and time walk twin cast, or a helm top future sight combo thats puts every counter spell and control spell into my hand then i say die. very fun deck to play. brain freeze is a alt tactic to disrupt my opponent or kill them by decking them.

[divine storm]

Children of Korlis.

But this is redundant and shouldn't be needed. When you play enough tutors, draw, and win conditions, Bargain should win enough games without gaining life.

thank you police hq that may be the card i was looking for
think of it like this.
"why do you have a gun, you dont need that!"
"because i would rather have it and not need it, then not have it and need it" -aliens vrs preaditor

that quote sums it all up.

[MEATROCKET]

 remember i asked about  a life gain card not your opninion about how the deck works. sorry if i seem rude but you didnt even touch the question i asked, just broke my deck down without even asking for a deck list.

First,

sorry if i seem rude but you didnt even touch the question i asked, just broke my deck down without even asking for a deck list.

I did ask for a list.

i disagree 100% with what you posted. silence stops people from interrupting my combo for storm count. no stiffles no misdirects ect.. .

You play 4 FoW, 4 Drain, Spell Pierce and even Twincast can function as a counterspell.  If you want more protection, at least play more blue or black cards (Duress) so that you don't have to ruin your mana base.  Rainbow lands, only 3 Fetches, and only one (!) basic is just an awful mana base.

remember i asked about  a life gain card not your opninion about how the deck works/

Welcome to The Mana Drain.  Asking about a life gain card to help fuel Bargain/Necro is going to end with some serious criticism (be glad I got here before Soly or someone else).  This strategy just isn't going to work in a competitive environment.  Just look at Future Sight - it costs 2UUU and isn't a win condition.  Even Dream Halls is probably better, Tez even more so.  I stand by what I said: if you see 60% of your deck and don't win with Tendrils, either you did something wrong or your opponent did something right.  In either case, some very narrow white life gain spell shouldn't be the fix you're looking for.

think of it like this.
"why do you have a gun, you dont need that!"
"because i would rather have it and not need it, then not have it and need it" -aliens vrs preaditor

Bargain is the gun.  Lousy life gain spells are the shiny handle the gun doesn't need to kill things.

[meadbert]

my deck is a storm deck

i dont always get my tendrils

im specifically looking for life gain

You specifically requested "other than Tendrils," but given the rest of your original post, running more copies of Tendrils seems to be the obvious answer, although Children is strong for slowing down Dredge.

[divine storm]

Just look at Future Sight - it costs 2UUU and isn't a win condition... did you really just say that? did you read what i wrote or just fly into nerd rage and try to internet bully me into submission. lol you claim the deck dosent work but you havent played it once. hmmm and the fact that you misinterperted my quote makes me care less about what you say.  have fun wrighting your responce im not going to read it. i have a sneaking supission youre the type to have the last word every time.

but not to sound like a total jerk, policehq it works pretty good. and has given me the extra fuel to pull off my combo every game that i play my necro potence. some times it is a dead card in my deck, but then other times when im getting trinket mage/mishras workshop/ burned down i can use it to hold out for one more round and win. i like it, dont care if everyone else dosent. but then again no one like the idea that the world was round now did they?

mead bert:

tendrils is a pain in the ass to play sometimes in my deck if im not comboing off. that why i was hoping to get a white card that gained life.

[Son of Serra]

If you want help, listen to criticism. If you want validation that your deck is good, win a tournament and then write a report. That is how this forum works.

I have no comment about your deck or card choices.

[NodFreak]

If you want help, listen to criticism. If you want validation that your deck is good, win a tournament and then write a report. That is how this forum works.

I have no comment about your deck or card choices.

This....

Also, if you want to play a storm deck... do yourself a favor and read this to understand the mechanics, card choices, paths to victory, and so on...:

Part 1: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/16270_So_Many_Insane_Plays_The_Perfect_Storm.html

Part 2: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/16298_So_Many_Insane_Plays_Playing_The_Perfect_Storm.html

Part 3: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/16330_So_Many_Insane_Plays_Winning_With_TPS.html

Advanced Master Class Follow-Up: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/17250_So_Many_Insane_Plays_Mastering_The_Perfect_Storm_HighLevel_Tips_for_Winning_With_TPS.html

(All the credit to Stephen Menendian for those articles)

[smasher]

Troll must be hungry, people are still throwing food at it.

Signs you are dealing with a troll.

1) Asks for help in poorly formatted run on sentences with bad English

2) Ignores help.

3) Criticizes help.

4) Posts about interesting topics in order to get a larger viewing audience but adds nothing interesting to the discussion.

[MEATROCKET]

Just look at Future Sight - it costs 2UUU and isn't a win condition... did you really just say that?

I have a feeling that you don't understand why a 5 mana permanent that requires additional resources is bad.  Do this: the next time your Future Sight resolves, think about how much better it would have been if it was a Tez (with Key/Vault ofc) while you try to find the mana to play the cards on the top of your library.

did you read what i wrote or just fly into nerd rage and try to internet bully me into submission.

I'm trying to help and be polite at the same time.  If a friend in my group came to me with your list and suggestion I would laugh at him and ask what the hell is wrong with him.  The fact is, there's no way to sound completely honest and polite at the same time, because you're the person who is just SO SURE that his idea is good so you will ignore the really good advice.
 

lol you claim the deck dosent work but you havent played it once.

Well I didn't say it doesn't work.  I know it can work (by work I mean goldfish a victory).  I'm saying it's not good enough for competitive vintage.

hmmm and the fact that you misinterperted my quote makes me care less about what you say.

I didn't misinterpret it at all.  I was trying to get you to see the real issue here: a resolved Bargain doesn't need shitty life gain spells to win.  If you need life gain with Bargain, your deck sucks.  Period.
 

have fun wrighting your responce im not going to read it.

Sorry for trying to help!  Have fun ignoring advice from players - and trust me, the best advice you'll get is what I've been trying to say.

i have a sneaking supission youre the type to have the last word every time

I reply to things that are wrong/awful and try to help out.  So maybe you're right.

i like it, dont care if everyone else dosent. but then again no one like the idea that the world was round now did they?

Yeah but...they were right.

[vassago]

my deck is a storm deck that uses future sight....silence

These cards suck. Orim's Chant is not good, so silence is obviously worse. And Why in your opinion are either of these any better than duress or thoughtsieze for what you are trying to do? What I am confused about is why would anyone make their deck worse by making their mana horrible? I mean wasteland is a big enough of a bitch to deal with even in the best built lists. My advice is this, go play a few games with your current list, and then come and reread this ENTIRE thread after you have some sort of tangible experience to relate too.  

Future Sight is horrible because it costs virtually a buhzillion mana and doesn't win you the game.  It doesn't really do anything on it's own, and you generally have to pass the turn when you cast it, as you will most likely be out of mana/resources to do anything else that turn.  In a format dominated by combo/control, saying go can be the worst thing ever, especially if it is on a "i hope this will get me there' type of play. My advice towards this is the same as MEATBAG's, pretend it is Tez and keep a log of how many times it is better than future sight would have been. I guaruntee it will be an absurd 100%

...my problem is that i run so many non artifact mana sources

I may be mislead, but this bascially says to me that you play too many lands and not a full assortment or artifact mana. You're playing tendrils, so think about what it is I might have to say.    

so if i add a way to gain life other then tendrils...

This is a waste fo time. Because....

tendrils is a pain in the ass to play sometimes in my deck if im not comboing off.

If you are playing tendrils while you are not comboing off, then you are playing your deck wrong.

I don't really understand is why you are trying to add worthless and unnecessary card(s) to this deck.  Here are a few links for you to sift through.

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=6596

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=3689

Have Fun! Hope this helps

[FlyFlySideOfFry]

Troll must be hungry, people are still throwing food at it.

Signs you are dealing with a troll.

1) Asks for help in poorly formatted run on sentences with bad English

2) Ignores help.

3) Criticizes help.

4) Posts about interesting topics in order to get a larger viewing audience but adds nothing interesting to the discussion.

5) Talks about non-tendrils life gain cards in Vintage.

[A_Outcast]

deck list:
artifacts:
mox x5
lotus
vault
crypt
sensei's top
helm of awakening
sol ring
darksteel colossus

enchantments:
future sightx2
necro potence
yawg bargen

other spells:
BLK;
demonic tutor
yawgwill
dark ritual
extirpate
tendrils of agony

WHT;
enlightened tutor
silence x2
rest for the weary (nothing better that i have found must have to fuel necro/bargen)

BLU;
thirst for knowledge (may turn into Impulse or compulsive research)
brain freeze (may come out for something better)
herk's recall
force of will x4
mana drain x4
spell pierce
echoing truth
ancestral recall
tinker
mystical tutor
brainstorm
time walk
ponder
twincast

land:
underground sea x4
gemstone minex4
blue fetch x3
tolarian academy
tundra x2
island

deck functions by getting futuresight out with either necro potence or bargen. mana drains fuel the deck. having the ablity to play off the top bypasses the "no draw step" flaw of those 2 cards. also allows me to cycle my deck even faster then normal by choosing my quick cast cards and playing off my deck rather then paying life to place them in my hand. helm future sight and top are an infinate combo, i have been playing for years, that i love. i feel as though its my combo even though other people played it in tourneys after i built a first draft with gifts ungiven in kamagawa block. this deck "works" 90% of the time but the only time it dosent is when i run out of life to cycle cards out. thats why im playing a quick to cast life gain card like "rest for the weary" thats 8 more cards when i combo off to get a tinker for colossus and time walk twin cast, or a helm top future sight combo thats puts every counter spell and control spell into my hand then i say die. very fun deck to play. brain freeze is a alt tactic to disrupt my opponent or kill them by decking them.

my advise.  As tacky as it sounds.

+3 spell pierce
+3 dark rits
+2 duress
+2 swamps
+1 tundra
+1 vampiric tutor
+1 polluted delta
+0-1 imperial seal
+0-2 cabal rits
+0-3 grim tutor
"Blue fetch" should be polluted delta.
-4 gemstone mines
-4 mana drain
-2 future sight
-1 enlightened tutor
-1 helm of obediance
-1 rest for the weary
-1 brainfreeze
-1 twincast

I'm honestly fine with the white splash.  on upkeep cast silence and go off, its a fair plan.

but for the love of all that is holy, please run 4 dark rituals.  if you dont run 4 your NOT playing storm, your playing "Butcher my deck"

+3 dark rits=good mana
+3 spell pierce=amazing disruption
+2 duress=good disruption
+lands = fixing manabase
+vamp tutor = strictly better then enlightened tutor
+lands = stronger manabase
+imperial seal/grim tutor
-4 gemstones = terrible for mana
-2 future sight.  doesnt win and cost 5.
-1 enlightened tutor.  pretty bad.
-1 helm of obediance.  because their tezz should only cost 4 and this doesnt help you any.
-1 rest.  terrible
-1 brainfreeze.  tendrils>brainfreeze to me.  but thats debatable.
-1 twincast.  duress>this 99% of the time.
-4 mana drain.  pierce.  nuff said.

[Oath of Happy]

Have you tried 4 Healing Salve?  Combined with Yawg Bargain and Necropotence it's Ancestral Recall 2-5

[AmbivalentDuck]

If you want validation that your deck is good, win a tournament and then write a report. That is how this forum works.

It doesn't actually work that way.  Bad decks sometimes win and past failure has considerable momentum in vintage.  Even if life gain was suddenly the best thing you could conceivable add to storm decks, few people would run it.

[TheShop]

While e are playing casually, why not skirge familiar and confessor....

[BruiZar]

This reminds me of a deck I used to play:

1 Lich
1 Nefarious Lich
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
4 Nourishing Shoal
4 Cadaverous Bloom
2 Drain Life
4 Dark Rituals
4 Academy Rectors
4 Cabal Therapy

It was a lot of fun

If I would revamp the deck I would cut white all together, cut drain lifes and add tendrils though. Pitching excess cadaverous blooms for shoal to draw 5 is cool.

[Delha]

Have you tried 4 Healing Salve?  Combined with Yawg Bargain and Necropotence it's Ancestral Recall 2-5

This is my favorite by far.

[MEATROCKET]

Just play a damn Angel's Grace or play a good deck. /thread

[vassago]

Just play a damn Angel's Grace or play a good deck. /thread

Just play a damn good deck. /thread

Just play a deck. /thread

Just play/thread

/thread