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Author Topic: Question about announcing floating mana based on Ruel's SCG article  (Read 3923 times)
Nazdakka
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« on: September 01, 2010, 06:38:19 pm »

Olivier Ruel, in his SCG premium article on from Tuesday, suggested that on MTGO it's worth floating extra mana when casting spells into order to confuse your opponent into a mistake when you are playing against Mana Leak and the like. Is this a trick we have to watch out for offline too, or would it be frowned upon in a paper tournament?

A concrete situation:

Alan has 8 untapped basic lands in play. Betty has 1U untapped and a Mana Leak in hand.
Alan taps 6 of his lands and announces Baneslayer Angel, leaving one mana floating but not explicitly saying so.
Betty looks at Alan's board, sees that he only has two mana untapped, and casts Mana Leak targetting the Baneslayer. Alan lets the Mana Leak resolve and pays the three mana, using two from untapped lands and the one he had floating.

Betty calls a judge; she feels aggrieved because Alan was clearly trying to mislead her. Alan argues that everything he did was totally within the rules and Betty should have been paying attention.

What happens next? How would you approach this?

(Mana Leak: 1U, counter target spell unless its controller pays 3 mana, Baneslayer costs 5 mana to play)
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Nazdakka

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Sextiger
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« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2010, 07:50:34 pm »

Girls can't count????


In all seriousness, as a player, this is why you should always keep a pen and paper around and be ready to ask your opponent questions if anything seems out of place, floating mana or any other situation. 
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"After these years of arguing I've conceded that Merchant Scroll in particular can be an exception to this rule because it is a card that you NEVER want to see in multiples, under any circumstances. Merchant Scroll can be seen as restricted in a way because should you have 2 in a hand, only one is really useful (that is, only one can get Ancestral)."
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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2010, 09:10:26 pm »

I hope a judge weighs in on this, because it's a very interesting question.  My first thought is that's a totally shady thing to do.  But is it technically illegal?
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LotusHead
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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2010, 11:25:33 pm »

We do it all the time. Merchant scroll off Sol Ring, for example.

We don't always say "1 colorless floating", and it's no big deal.  If opponent later forgets that there was 1 floating (like after player fires off newly tutored for Ancestral), then that is totally on the opponent to pay attention.
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Rico Suave
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« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2010, 02:42:35 am »

"106.4a If a player passes priority (see rule 115) while there is mana in his or her mana pool, that player announces what mana is there. If any mana remains in a player’s mana pool after he or she spends mana to pay a cost, that player announces what mana is still there."

You are obliged to tell the opponent that you have floating mana.  It is required.  If you don't, it is at least a Game Rule Violation which results in a warning.   

If the judge asks you some questions, and comes to the conclusion that you deliberately violated these rules in order to gain an advantage, it would be considered cheating and a disqualification would follow.

Of course it would depend on the circumstances and the judge's interpretation of what happened. 

I make it quite clear in a tournament what mana I'm floating and what my intentions are in regards to the mechanics of the game.  There are several times over the course of a normal Vintage tournament where my opponents do not announce what mana is in their mana pool, but I'm not going to call a judge about it and most people feel the same way (or more likely just aren't aware that it is mandatory).  I'm just not a dick.  If it isn't obvious at first glance, I make it a point to ask my opponent if he or she is floating any mana and avoid the mess altogether.  I believe that small steps such as that can clarify a situation before it ever becomes a rule's problem, and playing in a manner beyond reproach is good for my own results and the integrity of the game as a whole.  I'll end my soapbox here. 

Now on MTGO it may be such that a player may look at the screen and observe what mana is floating in the opponent's mana pool.  I can't offer any conclusive advice in this regard. 
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LotusHead
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« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2010, 03:51:49 am »

Lol! I stand corrected. I do usually declare my mana always, in an effort to maintain good communication. Smile
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Delha
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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2010, 11:32:29 am »

Ironically, I think this trick still works somewhat if you play like LotusHead.

If you announce your mana regularly, the opponent is much more likely to get accustomed to hearing it and mentally brushing it off. When you say "Baneslayer, blue floating", they might well just hear Baneslayer. If they've gotten used to ignoring mana announcement, since it's typically irrelevant, they might forget to make the exception here.

Basically, you lull them into a pattern, then present them with a situation where following said pattern is detrimental.
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I suppose it's mostly the thought that this format is just one big Mistake; and not even a very sophisticated one at that.
Much like humanity itself.
Nazdakka
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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2010, 12:36:15 pm »

Thanks for the answer, glad to see it's such a sensible rule.
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Nazdakka

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« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2010, 10:33:11 pm »

If any player tried some kind of angle shoot on me like that in a game, I would make them regret it one way or another.
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