Here is how you beat Shops with Gush

[meadbert]

Disclaimer:  I still advocate boarding out Gush.

White Version:  (I like this better)

1 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
2 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
4 Island
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Nomad Stadium
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
3 Crucible Of Worlds
4 Wargate
4 Jace, The Mindsculptor
4 Compulsive Research
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Walk
4 Force Of Will
4 Gush
4 Mana Drain
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
3 Spell Pierce
1 Fastbond
1 Seal Of Cleansing

Black Version: ( I expect others will like this better, though they may cut some high CC bombs for Spell Pierces)
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Island
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Nomad Stadium
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
4 Crucible Of Worlds
4 Dark Confidant
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Jace, The Mindsculptor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Walk
4 Force Of Will
4 Gush
1 Gifts Ungiven
4 Mana Drain
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Seal Of Primordium
1 Fastbond
1 Regrowth


So old Turbo Gush ran Intuitions and AKs.  This engine is slow now and I found not just today, but ever since Merchant Scroll was restricted that I wanted to use Intuition to tutor for Fastbond more than for AKs.  As long as Intuition was used for Fastbond, Wargate is better since it puts Fastbond into play for 4 rather than 5.  Also, if one Wargate is countered you can use others to get Fastbond, but if you used Intuition you had to find your Regrowth which you had no tutors for.
Wargate also puts Strip Mine into play for 3 which is huge at times.
Along with 3xScroll and 3xBrainstorm that had to be pulled I went ahead and pulled the Intuition/AK engine the Argivian Finds and Regrowth from the White version.

I then added Compulsive Research because of goodness with Crucible of Worlds.
I added Spell Pierce to fill the Brainstorm gap and then Jace because of awesome Synergy with Crucible and Gush.
Basically Crucible + Jace means you can Brainstorm and Fetch every turn.
Gush means that on turn 3 with a Mox you can float 3 mana, Gush and then play a land to pay for Jace and then Brainstorm putting back extra lands.  Seems pretty good.
Seal of Cleaning is there as a replacement for Echoing Truth.  It answers Leyline of Singularity and other annoying cards that stop your win.

The Black version is in theory more broken.  It runs Dark Confidant which is the best unrestricted turn 1 draw right now.  It also has Crucibles and Jaces and Gush which all synergize.  Well, Gush and Crucible both Synergize with Fastbond.  They do not directly synergize with each other.
The trouble is the damage from Bob is bad once you consider all of those cards.  The total CMC is something like 107.  I usually like to stay around 70 for a full set of Bobs. 
For this reason I suspect but cannot say for sure that Bobicide is too much of a problem.  There are no giant Tinker robots so that does help.  Also, if you resolve a Jace he can protect you by either bouncing Bob or keeping 0cc spells on top.
Running Yawg, Demonic, Vamp, Mystical, Gifts, Regrowth and Bobs is more broken.
This list does not run Spell Pierces since Bob and Mystical sort of fill the Brainstorm gap without them.

In both versions I would probably run sideboards similar to this:
4 Engineered Explosves  (possibly Pernicious Deed in Black Version)
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Wasteland
3 Seal of Cleansing  (Might be Seal of Primodium for Black version, but Cleansing does answer Sphinx of Steel Wind)

Basically the first 12 cards would come in for counters against Dredge.
Then the Wastelands and Seals could come in against Shops.
Wastelands serve two purposes against Shops.  First they cut off Shop locking shop decks under their own Spheres or essentially Strip locking them since many Shop decks run no basics.
Second, they functions as mana sources 25-28 to pay for spells through Sphere effects.  Shop decks are not thrilled about dealing with Drain decks that pack 28 mana sources, 5 Strips and 3-4 Crucible of Worlds.
Against Dredge I would board out counters.
Against Shops I would board out Gushes first and then some Jaces and some Wargates in the white version.

Any ideas for improvements to either of these lists?  Is the black or white version better?   How can the black version be best modified to maintain brokenness, but also lower the CMC?

[FlyFlySideOfFry]

Isn't Enlightened Tutor better with the Gushbond engine than Wargate? ET->Float 1->Gush into Fastbond->cast Fastbond->go retarded.

[Tha Gunslinga]

This is a joke thread, right?  I mean, playing expensive spells in order to somehow beat 13-Sphere decks?  Am I missing something?  I mean, you could sb 4 Annul, 4 Wasteland, 4 Nature's Claim, and 3 Ingot Chewer with these and have trouble with Shops.

[hitman]

All we did when playing GAT was sideboard an assortment of cards ranging from Oxidize to Viridian Shaman.  Workshop decks have a hard time with lots of green spells.

[meadbert]

Isn't Enlightened Tutor better with the Gushbond engine than Wargate? ET->Float 1->Gush into Fastbond->cast Fastbond->go retarded.

The answer is somewhere between maybe and definitely.  Basicaly ET is better in general, but I left out one of the advantages of Wargate and that is Chalice@1.
With the White version if you swap out Wargates for ETs then you super vulnerable to Chalice@1 preboard.  Basically your answer to Chalice@1 is either to top deck Seal of Cleansing or win with Jaces somehow.
Wargate dodges Chalice@1 since you can put Fastbond into play for 4.
Wargate's other less important advantage is pitching to Force.

Basically Enlightened Tutor is the better card, but in certain situations Wargate is better.  Perhaps there should be some mix?

[TheBrassMan]

What about Kodama's Reach over Wargate?  It's a lot easier to cast than Wargate, and you're up a card after it resolves.  I like it over Cultivate because you can bluff splice, but you could run a 2/2 split if you expected Meddling Mage.

[BruiZar]

Wargate is also a way to get your strip mine into play, which is not irrelevant with crucible fastbond. if you can ever cast it.

[meadbert]

This is a joke thread, right?  I mean, playing expensive spells in order to somehow beat 13-Sphere decks?  Am I missing something?  I mean, you could sb 4 Annul, 4 Wasteland, 4 Nature's Claim, and 3 Ingot Chewer with these and have trouble with Shops.

This is a good point.  I have been playing both versions against 13 Sphere.dec and preboard the White list has issues basically because Jace and Wargate are so tough to cast and Gush you may not want to cast.  Post board this goes away.  Boarding in Explosives, Wastes and Seal of Cleansing is very strong against 13 Sphere.dec since you have a few answers in case of Golem and then Explosives is wonderful for answer Spheres.

A related issue preboard for the White version is the mana base.  The 3 Spell Pierces are not enough to bridge the Brainstorm Gap.  Basically hands with a mox and  a land for mana are shady even with Spell Pierce because you do not know how long you must wait to top deck your next mana source.

The Black version is significantly better here since Dark Confidant helps you draw your next mana source.
One thought is to add Wastes to the main deck.  Wastes can be that 3rd or 4th mana source to get Crucible or Jace on line.  They are nice disruption in general.  If your opponent smells blue based control they will fetch out duals.  Waste is amazing against both Stax and Dredge.  A threat is actually Gush.  It would suck to go to Waste your opponent's Underground Sea and have him Gush in response, so Wastes have a risk.

Will Seal of Cleaning be maindeck material going forward?  Given that I was testing against Shops most recently, but I almost always wanted Spell Pierce to be Seal of Cleansing.
Answering Sphinx, Shops, Oath, Time Vault and Fastbond with one card that I do not need to leave mana open for is nice.  The problem is it is fairly bad against Combo, where Spell Pierce is amazing.  If blue based control starts using Gush, then I would expect Shops to do well and Gush decks to have a strong game against Combo which would leave combo in a tough spot so this might be mitigated.

Can Seal of Cleansing and Wastelands be used to bridge the Brainstorm gap?

[BruiZar]

if you want seal over piece in every game except storm, it should be a main deck card. Just because its a 'conditional' card, doesnt mean it has to go to the sideboard.

[Shock Wave]

This is a joke thread, right?  I mean, playing expensive spells in order to somehow beat 13-Sphere decks?  Am I missing something?  I mean, you could sb 4 Annul, 4 Wasteland, 4 Nature's Claim, and 3 Ingot Chewer with these and have trouble with Shops.

I was wondering the same thing. I am having difficulty understanding how a deck which combines these cards:

4 Wargate
4 Jace, The Mindsculptor
4 Compulsive Research
4 Gush
4 Mana Drain

... has any prayer of beating Sphere.dec. It is fairly intuitive that all these cards are awful against Workshops, so it is fair to conclude that this thread was created in jest.

[NilsH]

I played a few games with the first list (8 games to be exact).

Some thoughts:

I think a Regrowth should be included in the first list. I realize that you'll put a Fastbond into play with Wargate most of the time, but having it countered the few times it's played from hand really suck. And Fastbond can be destroyed with Claims etc, so an out would be nice.

It's possible to splash Demonic and Vamp in the first version with +1 Usea and -1 Island. Not sure if it's worth it, and what to take out for the tutors.

Have you tested Crop Rotation? It finds half of your combo pieces. I think it's worth some testing.

You have a high curve. How about a Mana Crypt to get Wargates, Jaces, Crucibles etc out faster? I cutted a land for a Mana Crypt, and I liked it.

I liked the Wargates, but I'm didn't like Compulsive Research. The CRs were only good when Crucible are online, but at that time I rather assemble the rest of the combo then draw a bunch of cards. And CR are sorcery speed making them bad in general with counters.
Some cards that could be tested in place of CRs: Frantic Search, Careful Study, Strategic Planning.

FS: Can be played at instant speed, fixes your mana to some extent (easier to cast an early Wargate), "free", synergi with Crucible (discard lands). I played a few games with 2 FS, I think it's decent.
CS: Haven't tested it.
SP: Didn't like them as I wanted to keep mana for Mana Drain up.

I'm currently playing this:

-2 Island
-4 CR

+1 Mana Crypt
+1 Usea
+1 Demonic
+1 Vamp
+2 FS

[T00L]

If you ran arcane denial in these decks then you could combine those and any unneeded wargates into a sick draw spell!

[meadbert]

I played a few games with the first list (8 games to be exact).

Some thoughts:

I think a Regrowth should be included in the first list. I realize that you'll put a Fastbond into play with Wargate most of the time, but having it countered the few times it's played from hand really suck. And Fastbond can be destroyed with Claims etc, so an out would be nice.

It's possible to splash Demonic and Vamp in the first version with +1 Usea and -1 Island. Not sure if it's worth it, and what to take out for the tutors.

Have you tested Crop Rotation? It finds half of your combo pieces. I think it's worth some testing.

You have a high curve. How about a Mana Crypt to get Wargates, Jaces, Crucibles etc out faster? I cutted a land for a Mana Crypt, and I liked it.

I liked the Wargates, but I'm didn't like Compulsive Research. The CRs were only good when Crucible are online, but at that time I rather assemble the rest of the combo then draw a bunch of cards. And CR are sorcery speed making them bad in general with counters.
Some cards that could be tested in place of CRs: Frantic Search, Careful Study, Strategic Planning.

FS: Can be played at instant speed, fixes your mana to some extent (easier to cast an early Wargate), "free", synergi with Crucible (discard lands). I played a few games with 2 FS, I think it's decent.
CS: Haven't tested it.
SP: Didn't like them as I wanted to keep mana for Mana Drain up.

I'm currently playing this:

-2 Island
-4 CR

+1 Mana Crypt
+1 Usea
+1 Demonic
+1 Vamp
+2 FS

I have not tested Crop Rotation.  Based on what you and others are seeing I am leaning against the White version right now.  I had Mana Curve issues to begin with and there are a lot of cards that are bad against Stax.  I think switching to Black as you have done is correct.  Can Dark Confidants be added?  They fit the turn 1 slot the best.
The issue is the high converted mana cost and the life loss from that.  Is it okay to have 107ish mana cost with Dark Confidant if you do not have to worry about flipping a Tinker bot.  What if a Top is added?  Top does have some synergy with Crucible that is a possibility.
Mana Crypt is good for accelerating out Compulsive Research or Jace, but in a long game it does a lot of damage.  I would want a way to remove it just I can remove Bob or dodges the damage with Jace.
I am pretty sure that Frantic Search is not going to be good although I have not tested it.  Waiting till turn 3 to draw 2 and discard 2 is not that good.

[Killane]

If you ran arcane denial in these decks then you could combine those and any unneeded wargates into a sick draw spell!

Really? 2 cards and 5 mana in 3 colors and you don't get the 3 cards till next upkeep? That's a sick draw spell? Nar sir, nar.

[zeus-online]

.

[TheBrassMan]

Hmm, how is mana drain horrible against shops? Are you just continuing the joke?

I'm with Shockwave on this one.  Mana Drain is just not castable against shops much of the time - particularly turns 1-3 where it matters the most.  It's not something I'd quickly board out, but it wouldn't be part of my "I'm building this deck to beat shops" plan

[meadbert]

Drains are still very strong against Shops.  You cannot plan to not play 2cc spells.
The normal downside of Drain is that it costs 2 on color mana, but this is mitigated by Resistors which allow you to use any off color moxen to pay the Sphere cost.
The result is that Mana Drain is no harder to cast than Ancient Grudge.
Dropping to 1cc spells like Nature's Claim is convenient (particularly against Tangle Wire), but the lower cost is offset by the higher probability of seeing Chalice@1.


I have gone back to testing Enlightened Tutor some more as FlyFly suggested and I like that.  Chalice@1 is a huge threat, but getting Fastbond against Shops turns your Gushes from being bad to being amazing.  Also it makes Vault/Key a viable option.

Also, I am leaning towards running a large number of Seal of Cleansing in the main.  Maybe 3 or even 4 in the main?  This helps with Chalice@1 and makes Enlightened Tutor even better.

The mana curve issue was sever enough that I wanted black cards just so I can do stuff like play Vamp and Demonic on turn 1 if need be.

I am thinking something like this:

8 Fetch
5 Duals 2x(Sea, Tundra) + Trop,
1 Island
3 Combo (Coliseum, Stadium, Strip)
7 Solo Moxen
11 Disruption (4xForce, 4xDrain, 3xSeal of Cleansing)
10 Engine(4xGush, 3xCrucible, 3xJace)
6 Combo (3 Enlightened Tutor, Vault, Key, Fastbond)
9 Tutor/Broken (Demonic, Vamp, Yawg, Recall, Brainstorm, Mystical, Scroll, Walk, Gifts)

[NilsH]

I am pretty sure that Frantic Search is not going to be good although I have not tested it.  Waiting till turn 3 to draw 2 and discard 2 is not that good.

Remember we play Fastbond, so 3+ land in the first turns happens. As I said, I haven't tested it much but it's been good so far. I've played it two times in games; the first time I played EOT drawing two cards and discarding two lands while I had Crucible out.
The second time I played it I was trying to combo, FS filtered my mana so I could play 2x Wargate with 3 lands, 2 off-color and 1 on-color artifact mana. I won the same turn because of the FS. (This was my third turn btw).
I'm not saying is amazing, but at least in this deck I think it has its uses. It's drawback can be negated by Crucible as we're a bit more land heavy then a normal combo/controll deck.

Maybe you can try to build a version in UBg? You can cut white all together if you use Zuran Orb instead of Nomad Stadium. You'll be more vulnerable to Null Rod with ZOrb, but your manabase is likely to improve.

[meadbert]

Maybe you can try to build a version in UBg? You can cut white all together if you use Zuran Orb instead of Nomad Stadium. You'll be more vulnerable to Null Rod with ZOrb, but your manabase is likely to improve.

So I started to go down this route, but did not like Zuran Orb.  I then considered ditching the "combo" and just running Fastbond + Crucible for tons of mana.
Jace and Gush stay.  I did some research to try to figure out what could work in that shell and I ran into an old "Tez" list that Soly top 8ed with that ran Mystic Remora, Jace and Lorescale Coatl.  My notes indicated that Mystic Remora and Jace were actually really good together because your opponent must either play into Remora drawing you cards or wait allowing you to get Jace mana up.  Either spot is tough.
A shell with Remora, Coatl, Crucible, Gush and Jace seems to have a lot of synergies. (Gush + Remora have some disssynergy.)

The trouble is they take up a lot of space together.

Lets say 1 Fastbond, 3 Remora, 3 Jace, 2 Crucible, 4 Coatl and 4 Gush for the engine.  That is 17 cards.


Add Yawg, Demonic, Vamp, Recall, Walk, Scroll and Brainstorm for Brokenness.
Add 12 disruption (some combination of Duress, Pierce, Drain, Force and Removal)


That leaves 24 slots for mana including Strip Mine.  Something like this might work.
What should the 12 disruption be?  Remora wants 1cc disruption, but Draining into Jace or Crucible is nice.

EDIT:  Preliminary testing indicates Mystical Tutor is needed.  Can mana sources be dropped to 23?  If not which engine card should be decreased?

[Rico Suave]

Mana Drain is poor against Workshops because it is not fast enough to do what it is supposed to do.  Remember, an answer is only good if it is fast enough to answer the threat it is assigned to stop.  Mana Drain is a turn 2 play, whereas Mishra's Workshop decks are playing threats on turn 1.  Using Drain to fight Workshops is like using Exclude to fight Dark Confidant.

[meadbert]

Regarding Mana Drain:
As always the question is compared to what?

Turn I play Mox and Land.  Shops drops Resistor or Thorn or Golem.
Next turn I play a land and I have Drain up.

Now Spell Pierce could have countered Resistor or Thorn, but not Golem.
Spell Pierce might be better for that reason.  Nature's Claim could remove whatever was played, but I must fetch a dual to do so.
Both are shut of by Chalice@1, which shows should look to do on the draw.

If I am on the drain, then Drain becomes even better compared to Pierce.
If they drop Resistor/Thorn on turn 1 then I play land and then Mox.  I cannot play either Pierce or Claim.
Next turn I can drop a land and have Drain mana up.  This assumes they played nothing.  Another Resistor or a Rod and Pierce would have been better, but Chalice@1 against hoses Pierce and Claim.
Mana Drain is terrible against Tangle Wire.

Mana Drain is harder to play than Pierce, but not THAT much harder.

The more important consideration is the Drain mana.  If you are trying to wiggle out from under Spheres and you resolve a Drain on a high cc target like Lodestone, Karn or Shop then you are set!

Mana Drain is what gives you a chance to resolve spells like Jace or Gifts.

Mana Drain is too late for first turn threats, but Shops cannot open with Smokestack or Trinisphere every turn 1, even with Serum Powders.

[Blue Lotus]

If you ran arcane denial in these decks then you could combine those and any unneeded wargates into a sick draw spell!

Really? 2 cards and 5 mana in 3 colors and you don't get the 3 cards till next upkeep? That's a sick draw spell? Nar sir, nar.

It was sarcasm.

[Shock Wave]

I'm with Shockwave on this one.  Mana Drain is just not castable against shops much of the time - particularly turns 1-3 where it matters the most.  It's not something I'd quickly board out, but it wouldn't be part of my "I'm building this deck to beat shops" plan

.... pretty much sums it up.

As always the question is compared to what?

Well, compared to a lot of answers that just better against Shop decks: Trygon Predator, Hurkyll's Recall, Nature's Claim, Serenity, Seal of Cleansing, etc.

Turn I play Mox and Land.  Shops drops Resistor or Thorn or Golem. Next turn I play a land and I have Drain up

Essentially, what you are saying is that Drains are good against Shops under the following conditions:

1) You win the die roll
2) You have Mana Drain, Mox, and 2 blue producing lands in your opening hand
3) Your opponent does not disrupt your lands with Wasteland or Strip Mine

There is also a series of opening Shop hands that will still beat you even if you open with a Mox and a land, holding Drain.

Mana Drain is harder to play than Pierce, but not THAT much harder.

It is THAT much harder. Really, it is. It costs an extra coloured mana, which is absolutely huge in a shop matchup. There is a reason that control decks that win against Shops do not run 4 Drain, or Drain at all: it just is not very effective at keeping threats off the board.

The more important consideration is the Drain mana.  If you are trying to wiggle out from under Spheres and you resolve a Drain on a high cc target like Lodestone, Karn or Shop then you are set!

You are not supposed to be getting "Drain mana" against shops, especially if you are on the draw. Your opponents are not supposed to be casting their Karn or Lodestone into your Mana Drain.

Mana Drain is what gives you a chance to resolve spells like Jace or Gifts.

If your plan against Shops is to resolve Jace or Gifts via Mana Drain, I am at a total loss for what to say, save for in my experiences, that approach is the equivalent of trying to shovel sand out of the Sahara desert.

Mana Drain is too late for first turn threats, but Shops cannot open with Smokestack or Trinisphere every turn 1, even with Serum Powders.

They don't need to open with those threats specifically in order to foil your Mana Drain plan.

[meadbert]

Well, compared to a lot of answers that just better against Shop decks: Trygon Predator, Hurkyll's Recall, Nature's Claim, Serenity, Seal of Cleansing, etc.

A world where you cannot pay for Mana Drain is also a world where you cannot pay for Trygon Predator, Serenity or Seal of Cleansing.
The only exception would be Predator where Chalice@2 was dropped or where there are multiple Thorns in play.

[Shock Wave]

Well, compared to a lot of answers that just better against Shop decks: Trygon Predator, Hurkyll's Recall, Nature's Claim, Serenity, Seal of Cleansing, etc.

A world where you cannot pay for Mana Drain is also a world where you cannot pay for Trygon Predator, Serenity or Seal of Cleansing.
The only exception would be Predator where Chalice@2 was dropped or where there are multiple Thorns in play.

You seem to be implying that it is as difficult to resolve Hurkyll's Recall, Serenity, or Seal of Cleaning as it is to resolve Mana Drain, and submit their similar CMCs to support that assertion. First of all, your language suggests that there is only one exception to this rule, but then you cite another example. Clearly, there is more than one situation where a Trygon Predator is easier to resolve than Mana Drain. Yes, it does come up often that your Mana Drain will be hosed by Thorns, whereas a creature threat would not be, so it is not a trivial exception.

Notice that I did not say that the alternatives I suggested for Mana Drain cost less. What I did say was that they are better cards in the Workshop matchup, specifically because they are proactive solutions to threats. Which of these plays would you prefer?

A) Land, Mox (holding Drain)
B) Land, Mox, -> Play Seal of Cleansing or Seal of Primordium

A) Land, Lotus (holding Drain)
B) Land, Lotus -> Play Trygon Predator
C) Land, Lotus (holding Hurkyll's Recall)

I am not even going to spend time explaining why Mana Drain is awful on the draw, and why a solution such as Serenity would be better.

You have also chosen to ignore that Mana Drain is almost always more difficult to resolve than Serenity or Seal, regardless of how many Spheres are in play, simply because it requires more coloured mana to cast and thus is easier for your opponent to disrupt.

I honestly cannot think of a situation where I would want a Mana Drain in my opening hand against Workshops. If you take a look at Owen's list from the Vintage Championships, which I feel is a better, proven method of beating Workshops with a blue based control archetype, you will find proactive anti-shop cards such as:

Dark Confidant
Trygon Predator
Nature's Claim

He does run *2* Mana Drain, but I am fairly certain those are not included to beat Workshops. Also, consider the latest Meandeck addition to their control lists: Lotus Cobra. Again, this is a proactive solution to mana denial. Notice Brian's decklist from Waterbury:

4 Lotus Cobra
4 Dark Confidant
3 Nature's Claim
0 Mana Drain

Now, compare these proven, tested configurations to your suggestion of using Wargate and Mana Drains as a solution. Does that not strike you as a very stark contrast?

[Rico Suave]

A world where you cannot pay for Mana Drain is also a world where you cannot pay for Trygon Predator, Serenity or Seal of Cleansing.
The only exception would be Predator where Chalice@2 was dropped or where there are multiple Thorns in play.

I tried to make the point with my previous post why this is a faulty line of thinking, but apparently I was too subtle.  Let me clarify.

Mana Drain is basically not a fast enough answer to our opponent's threats.  Remember there is a world of difference between a counterspell and hard removal. 

-A counterspell cannot interact with cards that resolve before we have counter mana available, but hard removal can.
-A counterspell means we must choose between playing a threat and keeping counter magic open, whereas hard removal allows us to play our threat and still answer whatever our opponent should play while we are tapped down.
-A counterspell is a poor topdeck if we are in a losing situation, as it cannot answer what our opponent has already established on the board.

Cards like Trygon Predator, despite costing more than Mana Drain, are worlds better than counterspells in this match because they can arrive *after* our opponent's initial barrage of threats and still stop them, whereas Drain must be in place *before* our opponent's ability to play their key threats. 

[BruiZar]

I'd like to remind you that pre-sphere workshop builds were repeatedly beaten by a resolved mana drain on an expensive artifact. Mana drain has fueled gifts ungiven in the past, so these proven methods (lotus cobra for example) have not stood the test of time yet, while Mana Drain has. Trygon predator is only less expensive when there are 2 thorns in play. 56/out of 60 cards, mana drain is better because it can fuel a degenerate turn where the control player simply wins the game. Winning the game is more important than disrupting your opponent. Your comparisons between trygon predator and mana drain are completely misplaced. They serve different purposes. One gets better over multiple turns while the other is primarily used to disrupt your opponent and accelerate beyond the curve.

The primary question is whether mana drain can come online soon enough. Because mana drain does not deal with resolved threats, you must ensure that drain is online before your opponent does anything meaningful. At the moment, this can't be  assured due to sphere effects delaying your mana drain until it is already too late. This does not mean it is a bad card at the moment. As meadbert aaid, when you can cast a seal, the chance is high that you can also cast drain. Trygon is like dark confidant in the sense that it takes a turn to come online and does 1 job per turn. I would personally rather have ancient grudge because it's easier to cast and can disrupt quicker and more over a single turn.

[meadbert]

You seem to be implying that it is as difficult to resolve Hurkyll's Recall, Serenity, or Seal of Cleaning as it is to resolve Mana Drain, and submit their similar CMCs to support that assertion. First of all, your language suggests that there is only one exception to this rule, but then you cite another example. Clearly, there is more than one situation where a Trygon Predator is easier to resolve than Mana Drain. Yes, it does come up often that your Mana Drain will be hosed by Thorns, whereas a creature threat would not be, so it is not a trivial exception.

I did not mention Hurkyl's because it does have the advantage of being able to be played with Tangle triggers on stack.
Chalice@2 will be rare if your opponent is play Resistors, Thorns and possibly Rods.

Notice that I did not say that the alternatives I suggested for Mana Drain cost less. What I did say was that they are better cards in the Workshop matchup, specifically because they are proactive solutions to threats.

It is very rare to be able to play Predator "proactively" but not be able to have Drain mana up.  Basically you would have to have a hand with Mox Emerald or something, but hands with Sapphire are just as likely.

A) Land, Mox (holding Drain)
B) Land, Mox, -> Play Seal of Cleansing or Seal of Primordium

Seals are slightly better here, but keep in mind that you open yourself up to Waste by fetching a dual.
Trygon is worse here since their turn 1 threat is likely to cut off Predator, but less likely to cut off Drain.
For instance Rod, Resistor and Lodestone all cut off Predator here where Drain stays on line.

A) Land, Lotus (holding Drain)
B) Land, Lotus -> Play Trygon Predator
C) Land, Lotus (holding Hurkyll's Recall)

Say what you will about the drawbacks of Drain but do not suggest it is somehow bad with Lotus in your opening hand.

I am not even going to spend time explaining why Mana Drain is awful on the draw, and why a solution such as Serenity would be better.

Obviously Serenity is better.  I never said Drain is the greatest card of all time against Shops.  I said it is good.

You have also chosen to ignore that Mana Drain is almost always more difficult to resolve than Serenity or Seal, regardless of how many Spheres are in play, simply because it requires more coloured mana to cast and thus is easier for your opponent to disrupt.

I don't get it.  If there are Spheres in play then off colored mana = colored mana.  The majority of the time Drain is no more difficult to play than Seal.
Exceptions include hands with 1 land and 2 Moxen or hands with 2 duals where you are vulnerable to waste.
The first exception applies against ALL matchups.
The second exception's likelihood depends on how many duals you run and can actually be exacerbated by Seals since they are off color forcing you to run duals.

I honestly cannot think of a situation where I would want a Mana Drain in my opening hand against Workshops.

Trying thinking harder.  I bet you can come up with at least one situation. 

proactive anti-shop cards such as:
Dark Confidant
Trygon Predator
Nature's Claim

[Shock Wave]

I'd like to remind you that pre-sphere workshop builds were repeatedly beaten by a resolved mana drain on an expensive artifact. Mana drain has fueled gifts ungiven in the past, so these proven methods (lotus cobra for example) have not stood the test of time yet, while Mana Drain has.

While this is true, it really has no bearing on the conversation. The fact that Mana Drain was better against shops when shops archetypes were completely different than they are today is not a testament to Mana Drain's current value. Would you compare the effectiveness of Dark Ritual today to the effectiveness of Dark Ritual in the Long era, and then suggest that because Dark Ritual was awesome 6+ years ago, that it is just as useful today?

Trygon predator is only less expensive when there are 2 thorns in play. 56/out of 60 cards, mana drain is better because it can fuel a degenerate turn where the control player simply wins the game. Winning the game is more important than disrupting your opponent.

I would argue that winning the game is sometimes the equivalent of disrupting your opponent. Have you ever watched a Workshop player try to deal with a resolved Predator? Trygon, used as a disruption piece, wins the game by itself. Conversely, Mana Drain by itself, does not win the game.

Your comparisons between trygon predator and mana drain are completely misplaced. They serve different purposes. One gets better over multiple turns while the other is primarily used to disrupt your opponent and accelerate beyond the curve.

Mana Drain and Predator are not being compared in their application; they are being compared in their overall usefulness in the matchup. We are not interested in whether one "disrupts" or "accelerates". What we are concerned about is how difficult it is to resolve one or the other, and the impact when they are resolved.

The primary question is whether mana drain can come online soon enough. Because mana drain does not deal with resolved threats, you must ensure that drain is online before your opponent does anything meaningful. At the moment, this can't be  assured due to sphere effects delaying your mana drain until it is already too late.

I am not sure I understand. You concede that it is very difficult to resolve Mana Drain, but then proceed to say ....

This does not mean it is a bad card at the moment. As meadbert aaid, when you can cast a seal, the chance is high that you can also cast drain.

What I am understanding is that when you resolve a Seal to enable your Mana Drain, Mana Drain becomes very powerful. I would agree with that, but I only see 1 Seal in this decklist and 4 Mana Drains. How is that plan going to come to fruition with any sort of reliability?

You also have ignored the fact that you can proactively cast Trygon while ignoring 5 of 9 sphere effects. Mana Drain is hindered by every single sphere effect; 9 of 9. Would you not say that is a considerable difference?

[Shock Wave]

It is very rare to be able to play Predator "proactively" but not be able to have Drain mana up.  Basically you would have to have a hand with Mox Emerald or something, but hands with Sapphire are just as likely.

Well, I would argue that since Predator is a creature and Drain is a reactive spell, that Predator is inherently proactive. If I am on the play, and I resolve a Predator, I am going to win the game 90% of the time. That is a line of play that Mana Drain does not provide.

Seals are slightly better here, but keep in mind that you open yourself up to Waste by fetching a dual.

I am only arguing that Seals are better, not that the "Seal" line of play does not have risks.

Trygon is worse here since their turn 1 threat is likely to cut off Predator, but less likely to cut off Drain. For instance Rod, Resistor and Lodestone all cut off Predator here where Drain stays on line.

If Lodetone resolves, how is Drain going to help you? At least with Trygon, the answer is already in your hand.

Say what you will about the drawbacks of Drain but do not suggest it is somehow bad with Lotus in your opening hand.

I never suggested that Drain was bad with a Lotus in your hand. What I did suggest, however, is that resolving Trygon Predator on your first turn against a Shop deck is better than having a Lotus and a Drain in your first hand.
 

Obviously Serenity is better.  I never said Drain is the greatest card of all time against Shops.  I said it is good.

Yep, I understand that you think it is good. I think it is poor, particularly in the decklist you have suggested as the "answer" to beating Shops with Gush.

I don't get it.  If there are Spheres in play then off colored mana = colored mana.  The majority of the time Drain is no more difficult to play than Seal.
Exceptions include hands with 1 land and 2 Moxen or hands with 2 duals where you are vulnerable to waste.

If you are cognizant of those exceptions, then you definitely get it. If I have one coloured source, and some off coloured mana, can I cast Mana Drain? What about Seal? I see a distinct difference.

Trying thinking harder.  I bet you can come up with at least one situation. 

Since you are interested in quoting me literally, I will agree with you. I could definitely craft a hand where Mana Drain would be exceptionally strong. That's really not an exercise I am interested in though, since I have already concluded in my own experiences that Mana Drain is generally poor against today's shop archetypes. Like I said, decklists from winning control decks support my arguments and criticisms of your card choices, but I concede that if you are sold on running Wargate, by all means. I will happily eat crow the day that you enjoy tournament success against Workshops in today's metagame with a deck that runs the combination of cards you are suggesting.