[Free Article] This just in: The DCI is Awesome!

[Marske]

I understand that people have different views of what is and is not an acceptable monetary investment in cardboard. That being said, I'd very very much like to drive a Ferrari Enzo, I can't afford it, making me even want to drive it more.....It's a double edged sword, sure some people are going to be at a disadvantage for not being able to proxy a Pithing Needle (or buy one) because of a "proxie monetary value limit" on the other side, it does push people to consider other options that they DO own / have access to...

In essence, I'm fine with "sharing" the experience of playing with Power, Shops, Bazaars to people that cannot afford these cards by proxy... sharing the epic experience of casting Pithing Needle, Tormod's Crypt or Lotus Cobra, Tarmogoyf, Noble Hierarch I think is pretty stupid,,,. Again, people in other formats spend literally hundreds of dollars on Planeswalkers, staples and what not... and we Eternal players (especially Vintage players) with Jobs (and yes, also bills to pay I get that) can't fork over 80 bucks for a set of Cobra's ?! Which you could have aquired over several months ?! Please give me a break.....

It's not like we're dealing with mostly students here, most of us have (well) paying jobs.... and I've said this a million times before, Hobbies (Like Magic) cost MONEY, you should accept that... other hobbies like golfing. fishing, snowboarding, skiing etc all cost money as well..... If you're not able to accept that I'd seriously reconsider if this is the thing you want to be doing in your weekends.

[Doomsday]

It's not like we're dealing with mostly students here, most of us have (well) paying jobs.... and I've said this a million times before, Hobbies (Like Magic) cost MONEY, you should accept that... other hobbies like golfing. fishing, snowboarding, skiing etc all cost money as well.....If you're not able to accept that I'd seriously reconsider if this is the thing you want to be doing in your weekends.

Another option here is to realize that you're following the rules, can proxy whatever cards you want, and not reconsider it at all 

[Marske]

It's not like we're dealing with mostly students here, most of us have (well) paying jobs.... and I've said this a million times before, Hobbies (Like Magic) cost MONEY, you should accept that... other hobbies like golfing. fishing, snowboarding, skiing etc all cost money as well.....If you're not able to accept that I'd seriously reconsider if this is the thing you want to be doing in your weekends.

Another option here is to realize that you're following the rules, can proxy whatever cards you want, and not reconsider it at all 

That would be a valid option if we weren't discussing using proxies vs buying cards as Matt clearly stated his opinion on in his article....

[Doomsday]

It's not like we're dealing with mostly students here, most of us have (well) paying jobs.... and I've said this a million times before, Hobbies (Like Magic) cost MONEY, you should accept that... other hobbies like golfing. fishing, snowboarding, skiing etc all cost money as well.....If you're not able to accept that I'd seriously reconsider if this is the thing you want to be doing in your weekends.

Another option here is to realize that you're following the rules, can proxy whatever cards you want, and not reconsider it at all 

That would be a valid option if we weren't discussing using proxies vs buying cards as Matt clearly stated his opinion on in his article....

"Using proxies" is one of the options, you listed it right in your post dude.  I don't think it's right to tell people to reconsider playing Vintage because even though they're following the rules, they're not following them in the way that you think they should.

[Marske]

@Doomsday,
I'm not saying that, my argument is based on the fact that people should keep in mind that playing vintage requires an investment (Travel expenses, card expenses, Time investment etc) like all hobbies...

If you're not okay with spending money to play Vintage I would reconsider attending events, seems rather logical.

[DubDub]

@Doomsday,
I'm not saying that, my argument is based on the fact that people should keep in mind that playing vintage requires an investment (Travel expenses, card expenses, Time investment etc) like all hobbies...

If you're not okay with spending money to play Vintage I would reconsider attending events, seems rather logical.

One could draw a distinction between paying travel expenses, and paying for cards, which is what I think Doomsday is saying.  Paying for travel expenses has no good substitute, so one either pays and plays in tournaments, or doesn't and can't.  Alternatively, paying for cards (beyond the initial investment to enable playing with the allowed 15 proxies max) has a substitute: not paying for cards.

I'd rather have someone pay to come to a tourney and enter it with proxys that ease their budget, than own cards and sit at home.

While I personally intend to get my 'permanent staple proxy count' down to zero (which is currently just two: Mox Jet and Black Lotus), I don't think it's unreasonable to proxy cards whose values are inflated by other formats or hype (or Mythic rarity; including Lotus Cobra, most planeswalkers, Mox Opal, etc).

I wouldn't begrudge anyone who wants to play with proxies of any card, for any reason.  Dealers get a lot more out of players who play at all than those who don't.

[TheWhiteDragon]

As a guy who owns every Vintage staple (baring 4x workshop, 1x time vault, and 3x bazaar) and has not played a tournament in over a year because there are none near me with any prize support worth the 4-12 hour drives solo, I would have to agree that proxying cards of any type is okay.  Simply having the cards does not support Vintage at all.

I remember many a time where a VW jetta was crammed with 6-7 people to drive to an event (when I lived in VA).  Frankly, 6-7 backpacks of 2-3 binders was not possible as the trunk was used for passenger space.  Needless to say I didn't want to shell out $80 for a playset of card-X when I had a set sitting in my binder at home and saw that the metagame called for the switch.  Additionally, when cards like lotus cobra, that I highly doubt retain value, will be used for a particular deck, I don't want to spend more than $10 for a playset when I forsee them dropping to such a price in 3 months.  Buying them at $70+ off ebay and then immediately selling them after a tourney for the same value is not only an immense hassle, but also does not benefit Vintage any.

I have a vast portfolio of cards which are primarily staples of every rarity.  I can basically put together 95% of any deck in Vintage at any given time.  Yet my entire collection will hold relative value if not increase.  While some cards rise and others fall, most will retain or only gain.  I see it as a playable stock portfolio.  As such, investing in a "dot.com" card that I speculate crashing in price, just to build a meta-appropriate deck for that one tourney seems like bad business.  Sharpie.card seems the easier and better fix. 

I also see that for many Vintage proxiers, it is not the guy that can't afford P9 that always proxies.  It is often guys like myself that have the forces, drains, power, etc., that realize "tyrant oath might be better than tezzeret at this tournament loaded with known fish players" and don't want to drop $60-80 on a set of oath, sorchards and 2 tyrants to transform into a better contender when I own them at home.  How much would it suck to even be the noob that made the investment in P9 and then saw he needed 4 needles at the last minute, but wasn't allowed to proxy them???