Goodbye to Deckcheck.net

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya,

Deckcheck.net is going under.  (link: http://www.deckcheck.net/)  The owner/authors states it has something to do with WotC's increasing support for brick-and-mortar stores.  Thankfully, for Vintage, we still have Morphling, but this is still a resource that I've used in the past.  No doubt many of you have too.  It's going to be a loss.  It's a shame, IMO.

Peace,

-Troy

[voltron00x]

Heya,

Deckcheck.net is going under.  (link: http://www.deckcheck.net/)  The owner/authors states it has something to do with WotC's increasing support for brick-and-mortar stores.  Thankfully, for Vintage, we still have Morphling, but this is still a resource that I've used in the past.  No doubt many of you have too.  It's going to be a loss.  It's a shame, IMO.

Peace,

-Troy

I'm actually devastated by this.  It was far and away the best resource for Legacy information, especially the large events in Europe.  Really, really unfortunate that this site is going away.

[The Atog Lord]

This is very unfortunate. deckcheck.net was a great website. This is a grim way to start the morning.

[honestabe]

boooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oo

[ReubenG]

Wow, what a bummer.  I used this all the time for deck and sideboard ideas. 

[CorwinB]

It sucks to see such a great resource go. He also quotes the closure of MagicDraftSim.com as a reason for his displeasure with WotC recent actions...

[BruiZar]

Why is it going under?

[Norm4eva]

What a bummer.  I liked that site.

I know that there's always folks in the Magic community who are always on the verge of quitting due to, whatever policy or physical changes of the game, whether it's card faces or damage on the stack, but the TO change.. doesn't..seem..that..big..a....deal .....  If you're of the mind to play sanctioned it should be with the best resources available to you.  I keep hearing horror stories about this one joint in town that runs "sanctioned events" but never keeps a judge on the grounds, does stupid shit like flipping a coin to determine rules questions, etc... I have a feeling that little shack might feel a little burn from this, and that's fine, they run backward events.

But yeah, insofar as losing deckcheck, what a shame.

[FlyFlySideOfFry]

I keep hearing horror stories about this one joint in town that runs "sanctioned events" but never keeps a judge on the grounds, does stupid shit like flipping a coin to determine rules questions, etc... I have a feeling that little shack might feel a little burn from this, and that's fine, they run backward events.

But yeah, insofar as losing deckcheck, what a shame.

So because some people are stupid enough to play in a shithole scam everyone who was running events properly should be punished? Guess what, this new rule actually supports shitholes like that because if the only place near you sucks ass you have to go there, you can't just start your own local FNM scene. This is just a dick moneygrabbing scheme by WotC because its cheaper to monitor only the "official" things than trying to keep the smaller stuff in check and legit.

Closing down the site seems like an overreaction but his reasoning that lately ALL the moves WotC has made is more about making money than keeping their players happy seems bang on. This is the first time I've ever been worried that my Magic collection might become worthless some day. I've always had a sense that MtG would continue to expand but apparently WotC must be going broke or stupid and niether are good for the game.

[Smmenen]

What does any of that have to do with Deckcheck?  I'm totally confused.

[cruzron]

My guess is its his form of protest.

from deckcheck - I do it, because I don't support a game, that doesn't support its players.

[jpmeyer]

I wonder if the WPN policy change is due to the Clifton lawsuit and wanting to stop/prevent other people from pulling off a similar scam.

[Anusien]

What is the Clifton trial?

I wonder if there's room for somebody in the community to take over.

[cruzron]

What is the Clifton trial?

Apparently WOTC sued the ass off Clifton who was defrauding tourneys and selling the promo cards on evilbay.

http://geekcentricity.com/2010/06/wizards-of-the-coast-plays-100k-lawsuit-card-against-jonathan-clifton.html
http://www.mananation.com/clifton-confesses-fraud-judgement-100000/

[LotusHead]

http://What Does This Mean (tl;dr)
This means that TOs who setup events at locations, which are not store locations such as in mall food courts or other event spaces, are being disallowed from running FNMs and other events of this type like Prereleases.

Update
Does this affect you? Long time ManaNation friend Dan Alpers, some of you may recognize his name as one of the winners of the ‘My Magic’ contest, has volunteered to help anyone this affects, just email him dan@ccgamers.org. He operates Central Corridor Gamers, a place kids can gather to play (but it is not an actual store) and so he has experience working with Wizards of the Coast on this sort of issue.

[TheBrassMan]

What does any of that have to do with Deckcheck?  I'm totally confused.

My understanding (and this is from the rumormill, so take it with a grain of salt), is that the man running Deckcheck.net was one of the non-store owning TOs who was shut down by this change, basically taking him out of the magic community/eliminating his interest in running the site... it seems a lot less petty from that perspective.

[MaximumCDawg]

What does any of that have to do with Deckcheck?  I'm totally confused.

My understanding (and this is from the rumormill, so take it with a grain of salt), is that the man running Deckcheck.net was one of the non-store owning TOs who was shut down by this change, basically taking him out of the magic community/eliminating his interest in running the site... it seems a lot less petty from that perspective.

Just because WotC won't support non-store TOs anymore with sanctioning or prizes doesn't mean they can't still do it though.  I'd be suprised an sad to learn that the only reason TOs were providing a venue for vintage was just for access to WotC prize money.  I suppose, for the truly serious sanctioned players, they want to play somewhere where they can improve their eternal ranking... but then, how many options do Vintage players actually have in most places?

[Delha]

I'd be suprised an sad to learn that the only reason TOs were providing a venue for vintage was just for access to WotC prize money.

I don't think it's as simple as that. If you're a storeless TO and your events get weaker prizing than the competition, it's not a far step to see your business model going down the crapper. I can see larger well established TO's being an exception, but for the small guy who is just barely over breaking even in the first place, it's probably wise to call it early and get out now, rather than being forced out by diminishing numbers putting you in the red for however many events it takes you to give up the ghost.

[jpmeyer]

I read through the entire 20 page thread on MTGS about this.  There were actually a fair number of people mentioning storeless TOs in their areas that did things like keep foils, sell packs meant for prereleases before the event, etc.  Obviously none of them mentioned that those guys were selling 10,000 foils on eBay, but there are probably more bad apples there than just a few.  I also have yet to really see what real way to punish the low-level fraudsters exist.  A store gets its distribution yanked, but the random small time storeless TO that was skimming half of his allotment of prerelease foils doesn't seem like he can get any worse punishment than losing his free flow of WotC prizes.

Also, it looks like most of the people in the thread that are upset about the changes are outside of the USA, where prevalence of game shops is lower.

[TheBrassMan]

Just because WotC won't support non-store TOs anymore with sanctioning or prizes doesn't mean they can't still do it though.  I'd be suprised an sad to learn that the only reason TOs were providing a venue for vintage was just for access to WotC prize money.  I suppose, for the truly serious sanctioned players, they want to play somewhere where they can improve their eternal ranking... but then, how many options do Vintage players actually have in most places?

My understanding was that this has nothing to do with eternal magic at all.  While what you're saying makes sense in a vintage context, it's a lot harder to convince players to play in non-sanctioned FNMs without FNM foils, or larger standard events without DCI support.

[Godder]

We have cities here in New Zealand where Magic has a reasonably good scene based on a TO working out of a library or similar community space, but not really any stores. I'm not sure if this would stop them continuing to provide that service, but it would be sad if it did.

[FlyFlySideOfFry]

There are plenty of ways for them to stop these scams while keeping the players happy but they all cost more money on the surface than making a new rule. Why try to increase your customer base when you can decrease it and manage less people?

[Nefarias]

Maybe it's because all the events around me are held in stores, but I really don't see what the big deal is. First of all, this doesn't stop them from running Gateway/Arena style events. Unless I am mistaken, they can still run those. All it stops is Pre-releases (which up until about three years ago, even WotC supported stores couldn't do) and FNM. Granted, FNM is pretty huge, but is the chance to play for a foil Rift Bolt really that big of a draw? I will often to go a store that is twice as far away my LGS to play in nonsanctioned "FNM" just because the prize support is potentially better, without them getting anything free from WotC (and this store could still theoretically give away Gateway promos as prizes, though they don't). As long as it's a well-run tourney with decent prizes, people will still come.

[Ten-Ten]

sad to hear this.  


Edit: whats gonna happen to all that info now?

[Troy_Costisick]

I know the change will be difficult for some, especially those in rural areas.  But WotC knows that people learn to play their games either thru apprenticeship (something they can't control) or in game stores (something they can control to a certain degree), so it's no real surprise to me that they're changing the rules.

[sassfactor4]

As one of the storeless TO's (I co-own Brooklyn Gamers), this change affected me personally and business wise.

The benefits of being part of the WPN were having events that had some kind of association with magic, FNM was as far as I could tell supposed to be a community based way of getting players interested in magic.  It would be great if this happened in your favorite local gaming store, as they have enough issues staying in business.  I can see why Wizards would want to do something to support the stores, however this move I believe is lip service in a wide variety of cases.

NYC and SF (the two cities i've lived with major player bases) are examples of a huge player bases with very thin store support. This apparently holds true for a lot of Europe as well.

Manhattan has 2 stores with play space, one of which does not hold magic events regularly if at all.  The other can, at best hold 50 people, and turns people away for FNMs\Pre-releases as they literally can't support the demand.  San Francisco has 1 store with space for at best 20 people.  In both cities, neither provides any avenue for players with jobs for FNMs, with events starting anywhere from 4:30pm-6pm. Which helped lend credence to the "jankyness" of FNMs as it was mostly younger kids or students as the player base, it never being an outlet for older experienced players to exist, provide guidance and support the game.  This led to some pretty unfriendly environments for new players unfortunately.

Who benefits from the change really if its not the stores in these areas?  The professional level organizers have not been restricted in any way with the WPN change, so their pre-releases will be somewhat larger without competition from independent operators.  Perhaps there are players in some areas that only had shady shack type TOs that were running effectively fraudulent events, that no longer have to deal with that? 

It seems to me that punishing fraudulent operators rather than eliminating legitimate community organizers would make more sense for the game.  The net result is going to be less new players, less competition and innovation in the way tournaments are run, and less sanctioned magic being played.

[BruiZar]

This change would mean no more prereleases for me. No one has a magic-store big enough to support 50 to 100 players.

[LotusHead]

Are you guys voicing this to WOTC, or just venting on this site?  Just curious.

I have been to large pre-releases that were not in stores. Are they unaffected?  (I went to a Time Spiral Pre-release, 800+ attendence, at some convention center.  Not a brick and mortar shop).

[sassfactor4]

Im still working on my "official" letter to WotC, I voiced my concerns vocally to my rep when I first heard about it.

The pre-releases at convention centers, etc are normally run by the professional organizer for an area.  Matchplay in northern california, Gray Matter in NYC\PA\NJ, Cascade in Seattle, etc.  They are of course, excluded from this change, maintaining exclusive contracts over vast geographical distances and populations.  Thats a whole other can of worms.