Neo Stasis, the return of Gush...

[Lazer]

MIAMI VISE:  Gush based Neo Stasis

Gentlemen, its been a long time since I've posted in the forums.  I've been an avid reader off and on for the last 8 years, rarely do I post, but thought I might bring up the subject of one of my favorite deck archetypes (Stasis) for the sake of the unrestriction of Gush.  

This is by no means a primer or the be all end all build, but rather a thread to get a Stasis discussion going whether or not it's even viable.  I've been playing Stasis since the Ice Age days when the only answer to the undisputed champion at the time "The Necro Deck" was "Turbo Stasis."  This build brings a more aggro approach as it often kills with a soft lock when a Vise or two hits the table early game.  For this reason I'm considering adding a fourth Black Vise to increase the chances of early softlock kills, plus it combos nicely with Ancestral as the finisher under one or two Vises.  Chronotog and Time Vault builds go for more of a lock approach, however I've been pleased with cheap soft lock kill provided by Black Vise.  Perhaps, to mix it up a bit and not get totally raped by cards such as Extirpate, it might be a good idea to run a back up kill such as Chronotog.  I believe the unrestriction of Gush really makes the Stasis archetype more playable as it gives you lands to replay to keep Stasis alive, it also nets you more cards to pitch to Forsaken City.  I normally would never advocate Howling Mine in any other deck than Stasis as it nets your opponent card advantage, however with a Stasis lock going card advantage is moot.  That being said Howling Mine serves two purposes aside from Black Vise synergy:  A).  It increases your chances of drawing into Islands to keep Stasis alive.  B).  Like Gush, it gives you extra cards to pitch to Forsaken City.  That being said, Wasteland is major threat when depending on the City, however the deck does quite well top decking Islands with Gush and Howling Mine to keep your Stasis alive and often Forsaken City isn't even necessary.  Despotic Scepter is there to destroy Stasis in the event you draw into another Stasis (which you will), however with 4 main deck Chain of Vapor it might not be necessary and it's slot could easily serve as a fourth Vise, Howling Mine or Daze.  I've considered splashing Green for Root Maze which wrecks most combo decks and / or Squandered Resources to keep Stasis alive, but I'm not sure either is necessary.  I know there are a ton of new cards out there and would love some suggestions, criticism and feedback.  Discuss!

UPDATED:  10.19.10

MIAMI VISE 1.5:  60 Cards

Soft and Hard Lock Mechanisms:  19  (this doesn't count the real lock mechanism Forsaken City listed under Mana Sources)
4x Stasis
3x Frozen Aether
4x Chain of Vapor
1x Despotic Scepter
3x Howling Mine
4x Gush

Kill:  4
4x Black Vise

Search / Draw:  4
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Imperial Seal
1x Ancestral Recall

Control:  8
4x Force of Will
2x Daze
2x Spell Pierce

Mana Sources:  25
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Jet
4x Forsaken City
4x Underground Sea
2x Underground River
12x Island

EDIT: spelling

[beder]

Funny thing, I also tried to work on a Stasis 2K10 deck. But I tried a totally different road, using recent printings that may allow it to be viable.

IMO, Gush by itself is really not sufficent to make stasis work. Trying to lock opponent thanks to the old school method is really too hard and too difficult.

At the same time, some cards have been recently printed which could make sense in a statis build, cards that do things without having to being tapped : planeswalker.
And at the very same time, another card have been printed, which allow us to produce mana without having to tap lands : lotus cobra.

So here is the build I am testing for the time being :

------------------------------------- Stasis 2K10 -------------------------------------

// Lands x18
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Tropical Island
    5 Island
    1 Forsaken City

// Creatures
    4 Lotus Cobra

// Spells
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Sapphire

    4 Stasis
    4 Gush
    4 Force of Will
    3 Spell Pierce
    3 Thwart
    1 Foil

    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    3 Garruk Wildspeaker    

    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Ponder
    1 Life from the Loam    

    4 Exploration
    1 Fastbond

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

The engine of the deck is based on : gush, exploration, fastbond and lotus cobra.

- In this build, twart and foil are almost FOW 5-8
- Lotus Cobra synergies with stasis, gush, life from the loan and twart. And naturally, Lotus Cobra is your 6xplaneswalker enabler.
- Garruck is obviously excellent with stasis, allowing you to keep stasis as long as you want while creating a 3/3 token every 2 turns
- Jace is excellent when it comes to draw new lands or to bounce those untapped creatures on board


Still hesitating when it comes to :
- the "spell pierce/daze" thing. Sure, "daze" has more synergy with statis. But spellpierce is much stronger. Still don't know.
- the undiscovered paradise, which could be an island or a life from the loan.
- the number of lotus cobra : maybe 3 would be sufficent
- the tuning of planeswalker : 3x3 seems nice, but perhaps another combinaison would be better

This is a funny build that has some potential, I guess a good starting point for those of you who would be interested in thinking about stasis.

Feel free to react

Nicolas
    

[beder]

Update
- 1 undiscovered paradise
+ 1 Preordain

I am not 100% sure, but this build could even be viable. Really, I am not kidding

Testings are very fun and damn good. And killing opponent with Garruk token's, this is priceless!!!

[meadbert]

Tinker->Sphinx of the Steel Wind would be good with Stasis.

[serracollector]

Root Maze + the artifact that lets your stuff come into play untapped.

1 Chronotog is still good.

Remember that in a Gush meta, your opponent can use gush just as well as you giving them lands to play, and they dont have to pay an upkeep.  Also remember that Gushbond tendrils needs only 1 turn to go off, so it can just sit and not tap anything til it has what it needs to go off.  Also as stated before Stasis does not stop Sphinx.  These are all things you need to take into consideration, along with the fact that Trygon and Nature's Claims are quite abundant.

Stasis is fun, and can work, but I don't think its good in the current meta UNLESS you play Rootmaze along with it.

[Lazer]

I'm having crazy good results with this current build.  Give it a spin and goldfish up a couple of hands at MTG Deck Builder, I think you guys might be impressed at how resilient it is:  http://www.mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/ViewDeck/17672

@beder  I like your build, and you are right, we have a totally different approach to Stasis.  Spell Pierce is tight and it's a tough call between it and Daze.  I was considering adding another Daze to the deck upping it to 8 counter spells, but now I'm thinking two Daze and 2 Spell Pierce is correct.  Thwart is a bit more conditional and isn't useful until at least turn three and thats if you have 3 islands in play.  I like the Lotus Cobra engine, I'll have to toy around with your build a bit, but yes they are completely different decks.  Lotus Cobra is simply screaming combo and might fit nicely into the old school Turbo Nevyn combo deck that was neutered when Gush was restricted back in the day.  It centered around Gush, Fastbond, Exploration and Horn of Greed to draw your entire deck and then killed with Sickening Dreams and Glacial Chasm.

@meadbert  (;

@Serracollector  Good point about the Gush meta not being a healthy environment for Stasis.  Root Maze is sick, I love that it is a one drop and that it munches most combo decks on it's own, it really is hard to work with in Stasis though.  I've tried and tried but haven't quite had the results I'm having with Frozen Aether.  The problem with Aether is that it hits the table later in the game but it doesn't punish you like Root Maze.  I'm considering adding another to up the chances of drawing it, extras can be pitched to FoW.  I like Chronotog simply because it is a two drop and doesn't get neutered to Chalice for 1.  I haven't fleshed out a sideboard yet, but Chronatog will be there along with Propaganda, Root Maze, Null Rod, and possibly Tormod's Crypt and/or Planar Void.

Over all the deck is screamingly disruptive and often I get a kill before a lock. 

Here's the current list I've been testing:

MIAMI VISE  1.5

Lock Down:
4x Stasis
4x Gush
3x Frozen Aether
4x Chain of Vapor
3x Howling Mine
1x Despotic Scepter

Draw / Search:
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Imperial Seal
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Ancestral Recall

Counters:
4x Force of Will
2x Spell Pierce
2x Daze

Kill:
4x Black Vise

Mana Sources:
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Jet
4x Underground Sea
2x Underground River
4x Forsaken City
12x Island

[Gambit]

I would LOVE it  if this deck was viable. I will sleeve it up and try it, but some thoughts. Does this deck want a full set of moxen? It seems like you want to be playing frozen aether on turn 2 as often as possible, it also allows for turn 1 black vise + Spell pierce, playing stasis using only 1 blue source etc. Not sure if there is room for them though. Is there a reason for no fetch lands? You should be able to get away with a couple swamps and some polluted deltas rather than the underground rivers. What have the matchups been like? With so many nature's claims around these days does this deck have issues? Also, I thought this could be a perfect deck to side into Oath, but then I figured the same hate would be relevent (enchantment destruction) against both decks, but something to keep in mind, especially if you put 5 moxen + tinker + sphinx in the main.

[waffles]

Root Maze + the artifact that lets your stuff come into play untapped.

1 Chronotog is still good.

Remember that in a Gush meta, your opponent can use gush just as well as you giving them lands to play, and they dont have to pay an upkeep.  Also remember that Gushbond tendrils needs only 1 turn to go off, so it can just sit and not tap anything til it has what it needs to go off.  Also as stated before Stasis does not stop Sphinx.  These are all things you need to take into consideration, along with the fact that Trygon and Nature's Claims are quite abundant.

Stasis is fun, and can work, but I don't think its good in the current meta UNLESS you play Rootmaze along with it.

yes chrono is, it eats stax, since you never see your turn. so they eat themselves alive with everything they have on the board. though it has trouble vs any creature based deck.

[Lazer]

@Gambit   Proxy it up just how it is and then give it a couple of test runs and let me know what you think.  I think you will be surprised.  Its a bit difficult to play at first but once you get the feel for the deck you will see just how resilient it is.  One hint, although it's scary don't be afraid to slap down a Stasis with only 3 mana sources out.  Two to pay for Stasis and the 3rd to pay it's first upkeep.  You WILL draw into (or already have in your hand) a Gush, Forsaken City, Despotic Scepter or Chain of Vapor to keep it going.  Tricks with Forsaken City can let you slip a Vise or two into play during the soft lock.

I'd love to squeeze in more off color moxen even if it is simply one or two more but can't quite find the room.  They do come in handy.  Everytime I've drawn a Mox Jet in my opening hand I can slap down a soft lock Stasis on turn two.  Not sure what I'd cut especially since I'm still a bit ass hurt over the loss of Lim-Dul's Vault which I cut for the 3rd Frozen Aether.

Fetchlands are not great with Stasis only because they thin your deck of Islands and you want to be drawing into Islands to keep Stasis alive.  I was toying with another Stasis idea which included Fetchlands, Crucible of Worlds and Stasis and/or Zuran Orb, Crucible and Stasis.  But that is a completely different deck and falls prey to graveyard hate.

Eastman's Tinker + Sphinx seems not shitty with all of the search.  Possibly -4 Black Vise and +2 Moxen +Tinker + Sphinx.  Or at least on the sideboard in the event of Chalice for 1.

I could use help with the sideboard as well.  So far I'm thinking:
4x  Leyline of the Void
3x Propaganda
3x Null Rod?
3x Chronatog?
Tinker + Sphinx?

It needs some more testing against the main archetypes.

@waffles  Never thought of the Chronatog vs. Stax matchup, nice call.  Sideboard for sure in a heavy Stax meta.

[Troy_Costisick]

Root Maze + the artifact that lets your stuff come into play untapped.

Just for reference, that's Amulet of Vigor.  Nice idea btw.

[the zeeker]

Lazer, thanks for starting this thread I've always been a huge stasis fan.  Just a few random thoughts I had after looking at your list:

1)  Howling Mine - great card in stasis, however there was a recent printing that I find does the job just as well if not better - Jace (no not that Jace) Beleran.  It can draw you cards before you get a stasis on the table and can act as a howling mine after you have a soft lock or a couple of vises on the table.  It also can serve as a win condition under a hard lock.

2)  Splash color - why black?  It seems green or white would be better splashes.  Green gives you rootmaze and fastbond, which has already been discussed, but I think white is the real gem.  White gives you enlightened tutors (which would replace your 3 black tutors) that find all of your combo pieces, but also land tax which could be a house in this deck with all of the gush/daze effects you are running.  I haven't tested the idea but it just seems like it would be a good fit in your deck.

3) Despotic Scepter - Would this slot be better as a Perilous research maybe -1 despotic scepter -1 chain of vapor +2 perilous research or something like that...  Perilous research fills the same role as the scepter while still netting you cards, plus it's blue and pitches to force.

All in all I think you are on the right track but a couple of tweaks and we might have a contender here.

-Zeke

[swawagon]

For so many reasons I think some number of Planeswalkers are too good not to play in Stasis.
Jace Beleren
Jace the Mind Sculpter
Garruk

They all:
They help on their own, without Stasis, setting up your defense or offense.
They help you keep paying for stasis (draw cards or directly untap lands).
They all are win conditions to finish off opponents.

Planeswalkers really show their strength the more times you use them. And with Stasis, you are likely setting up for some loooong games.

[Lazer]

@Swawagon, Zeeker and the rest of you who've commented.  You guys might be right.  I've been testing it to see how it fairs.  So far, I've only tested the current build against four decks.  First I wanted to see how it fairs against limited disruption aggro such as speed combo goblins.  Usually aggro will destroy control, but not in this case it went 3 and 0.  Next I tested it against Dragon and found the opposite results, 0 and 3.  Then I played it against a buddy of mine who was playing a scrubby Necro Donate and went 1 and 2.  Then I played it against Stax and lost again 0 and 3.  So it still needs some work if it's even viable at all.  Chronatog will kill the Stax matchup, so I'm considering -3 Vise +3 Chronatog,  Root Maze would kill the Dragon match up and most combo outside of Ichorid and really needs to hit the tabe turn one where as I've been having problems getting Frozen Aether out and usually doesn't hit the table until it's too late.  I'm going to test it against Oath next and see how it fairs. 

Zeeker and the rest of you guys that have recommended Jace, Root Maze, Perilous Research and Enlightened Tutors proxy up your builds and let me know the test results.  It definetly needs some work. 

[Colin]

 As i have always been and always will be a stasis player, I love the fact that a 2010 ten build thread is here!!

I also have a similar build, with a few differences for consideration:

Claws of gix over scepter?, not having to tap a land to play + the forsaken city remove-to-pay for stasis, remove-to untap and wait to gix stasis at the end of their turn.  Also, against some decks that one life or the ability to gain more just in case is paramount.

Howling mine reduced or removed for your choice of misdirect/thwart/foil/etc?  I have never found that the additional cards (equally between two players) does anything other than speed the game and is virtually useless in hand against decks that make you sweat for the first 2-4 turns.  I don't see you playing anything that really benefits from the mines (aside from the "clock")  that a blue card for pitching or sitting on couldn't replace.

I persoanlly play 2 foil 1 thwart in place of your mines.  I just like thwart late game, and having a chance a higher chance of free first turn counter.

-1 chain of vapor, + 1 daze.  because if I happen to be playing spell pierce first turn, getting to say Daze! afterward is awesome. and I would rather counter than bounce.  If I have to bounce something my opponent has, he never worries about sacking a land thats been tapped for 10 turns to make my game more. difficult.

 I swing back and forth around spell pierce numbers or even the spell at all. sometimes I carry four daze, sometimes one misdirect or mindbreak trap etc etc.  I've yet to find anything other than Spell pierce=misdirect=mindbreak=thwart given various meta's. 

lastly I usually choose lim-dal's vault over imperial seal because it's an instant, and pitches to force or foil if I'm hurting.  Also I rarely end up paying more than 2 life to find what i need while getting to arrange the next four cards also.

Chronotog is a side board must. IMO.

[Lazer]

Thanks Yep and everyone else.  I'm taking all responses into account.  The deck really just needs hours of testing against good and bad matchups.  Lately I've been testing with 4x maindeck Root Maze in place of the Despotic Scepter and the 3 Frozen Aether which was recommended by Serracollector and some of the other users.  I have to say that Root Maze is hard to work around because you really rely on Forsaken City to keep Stasis going which forces you to pitch cards to pay for Stasis' upkeep.  Although it is harder to work with it NEEDS to hit the table turn one.  In all of the testing I've been doing with the deck the soft lock is not enough as I once had thought, even with the soft lock I was still getting raped by combo.  That being said and to take the pressure off Forsaken City I've replaced the Howling Mines with Squandered Resources.  Squandered Resources is nice with Root Maze on the table because even though your own lands come into play tapped you can simply sac them to pay for Stasis.  Doing so even a few times helps you stock your hands with cards to pitch to Forsaken City and/or buys you turns until you draw into Forsaken City.  I haven't tested Garruk or Jace yet although I will.  My main gripe with these guys is that I run into the same problem I was having with Frozen Aether and that is getting them on the table. 

The optimal hand is a second turn lock.  Turn one play a Land tap for green Root Maze.  Turn two Forsaken City tap it and the previous land for two and cast Stasis.  This is a turn two lock.  From here on out you are basically pitching the card you are drawing each turn to pay for Stasis' upkeep.  That being said it is dangerous to cast FoW as it chops your hand size down.  Ideally you want to draw into Gush to give you more cards to pitch to Forsaken City.  Eventually you will draw into another Forsaken City and you will pitch two cards one turn untapping them both.  One of them will pay for Stasis and the other will pay for Black Vise or even Feldon's Cane for the kill.  That is why it is important not to pitch a card to FoW.  You need at least two cards in hand to get two Forsaken Citys untapped.

@Yep  Like Despotic Scepter Claws of Gix is nice and they are both a bit of a catch 22.  Claws force you to use that one land to sac Stasis and puts you in the dilema of making the decision, should I use this land to sac Stasis or should I use this land to pay for its upkeep?  That being said, I'm thinking Chain of Vapor is better than both of them and that neither is necessary.

You are right about Howling Mine.  It is nice under the soft lock as it combos nicely with Vise and gives you extra cards to pitch to Forsaken City and/or helps you draw into islands.  After more testing I've come to the conclusion that Squandered Resources may be better.  Or I could go your route and compliment those slots with nice suite of counters. such as Thwart and the like.

I'm with you on Spell Pierce too.  It's pretty decent and I would run 4 of them if Daze wasn't simply better in this deck, after testing I really needed counters that could be cast when I simply didn't have the mana.  That being said, -2 Spell Pierce
 +2 Daze.

I originally ran a lone Lim-Dul's Vault along side of my other tutors.  It is an instant, but it also costs one more mana.  The deck does need at least one more tutor though and I'm considering re-including it main deck.

For the rest of you, I WILL get to testing Garruk and Jace, I just haven't gotten to it yet.

[Delha]

Without Root Maze, Despotic is often superior to Claws. If you drop it on any turn before playing Stasis, it's a sunk cost. Chain is still probably better thanks to the additional utility.

Your line of play for a turn two lock doesn't work. T1 Root Maze is fine, but your T2 Forsaken City comes in tapped, meaning you only have 1 mana to work with. You need T1 artifact acceleration as well in order to land T2 Stasis under Root Maze.

When you test Jace, I suggest focusing on Jace Beleren, not Jace The Mind Sculptor. I think the cost diffence will help you get him on the table, and from there, the extra cards will help you keep Forsaken running until you hit what you need to win.

Garruk always struck me as an amazing card for Stasis, but I never really dusted off the deck to plug one in and test. Playing Garruk, untapping, and dropping Stasis in the same turn seems awesome. So long as you can pay for one turn's worth of upkeep, Garruk should do the rest. My theorycrafted concern was hitting 5 mana in the first place (or four mana if you have Forsaken).

[Lazer]

Ahhh.. You are right Dehla I wasn't thinking about that.  You would need a turn one Mox of any color +Land cast Stasis then turn two Forsaken City + Root Maze for a turn two lock.  You could lock on the first turn with a God draw.

I would love to test Garruk.  Getting two GG for his casting cost could be a bitch though.  It's hard enough to get the BG for Squandered Resources.

The deck really needs Root Maze or Frozen Aether turn 1 or two otherwise a quicker win condition other than Black Vise under the softlock.  Tinker + Sphinx would be good if it weren't so conditional. 

[Gambit]

Ahhh.. You are right Dehla I wasn't thinking about that.  You would need a turn one Mox of any color +Land cast Stasis then turn two Forsaken City + Root Maze for a turn two lock.  You could lock on the first turn with a God draw.

I would love to test Garruk.  Getting two GG for his casting cost could be a bitch though.  It's hard enough to get the BG for Squandered Resources.

The deck really needs Root Maze or Frozen Aether turn 1 or two otherwise a quicker win condition other than Black Vise under the softlock.  Tinker + Sphinx would be good if it weren't so conditional. 

This comes back to playing a full set of moxeN. Chrome mox may work if you play the plainswalkers

[TheBrassMan]

As uncool as it might be, Time Vault is basically the best Despotic Scepter you can imagine.  With a Time Vault and a Stasis out, you can skip your turn, which wasn't going to be very good anyway, which gives your opponent an extra turn they presumably can do nothing with.  On your next turn you fail to pay the Stasis upkeep, then take your extra turn with lands untapped.  The end result is identical to killing your own Stasis.

However if you have both Time Vault and Chain of Vapor, you get an extra turn - compare this to Despotic Scepter + Chain of Vapor which does nothing.

If you have Despotic Scepter and no Stasis... you basically have a worthless card.  Compare this to Time Vault and no Stasis, between tutors and running 1 Voltaic Key you have 4 outs to win immediately. 

[Thegreatgonzo]

Soft or hard lock?

I would go the hard lock way, with almighty Root Maze. T1 Root maze (on the play) is good against almost all match-ups, probably even better than duress. It' s just like playing time walks n° 2-5
I would play with full jewelery, along with some Elvish spirit guides. It helps for first turn "island + rootmaze" (awesome, especially with spell pierce back up), helps for turn 2/3 Garruk, helps for turn 2 stasis/rootmaze, and is a cute maindeck answer to resistors.
I'll play 4 jace tms, and 4 Garruk, Type 2 style (with gush and power, 'f course)

could be really strong with some tweaking'n'testing, but well, I'am a bartender, I'don't have enough (sober) spare time to playtest extensively.

Really hope something good comes out of rootmaze/garruk/stasis

EDIT :

about time vault : cool sinergy with root maze (comes into play tapped anyway), but the key comes into play tapped too. I think it neuters the nice "oops, I win" factor Key/Vault have.
Well, we could splash white for maindeck E. tutors, to race fast aggro with vault (and find Bond, Stasis, Maze...), and stronger sideboard options.