Control Slaver 2010?

[Erayo5989]

I saw a Control Slaver list under a tournament results topic that looked very interesting and I wanted to build upon it.  Here's the list I saw:

7 Fetchlands
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Island
1 Tolarian Academy
5 Mox
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Myr Battlesphere
4 Goblin Welder
1 Mind Slaver
1 Tinker
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Spell Pierce
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Vampiric Tutor
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Ponder
1 Brainstorm
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Frantic Search
1 Rebuild

This is the exact list card-for-card.  I agree with the use of Frantic Search to dump cards into the graveyard.  However, I was playtesting this last night against a friend of mine who just made top 4 with UBg Wizards at a tournament and the deck felt like it was missing something.  We had a couple of ideas such as the inclusion of a singleton Bazaar of Baghdad to fill up the graveyard.  Also the artifact count may be a little low. 

My friend made a suggestion of including a singleton Crucible of Worlds and a coiuple artifact lands with Gifts Ungiven to fetch them out.

The original builder of this deck said he'd like to cut out the 2 Spell Pierce and replace them with either Thoughtseize, Lightning Bolt, or some other form of disruption.

Any suggestions on tweaking this deck?  I don't believe a lot needs to be changed just a few cards perhaps.

[silvernail]

I would cut one Jace for a Tezzeret. You play him and untap some crap then swing for the win next turn or do the time vault again. A much faster I win card than Jace IMO.

I'd cut a fetch for an island to help the mana base a bit. I'd cut another Jace for Gifts Ungiven. That card is at it's strongest in Slaver and Combo.

As for the Spell Pierce, I'd maybe try running Engineered Explosives there for some broad spectrum removal.

I would cut mox pearl and mox emerald for 2 mox opal and test it out to see if they work well or not.

[Erayo5989]

Those are good suggestions. I was also thinking instead of spell pierce I run 2 gorilla shaman because chalice and pithing needle hurt Slaver and it combos well with Welder.

Also I was considering cutting Inkwell for Triskelion. As far as the lands go, I was  gonna cut 2 fetches for an Island and Darksteel Citadel to have an indestructible artifact on the field for 0 that if I need to can be welded out and can't be destroyed by wasteland.

What do you guys think?

[nineisnoone]

shaman is a decent option.  i was thinking more bolt personally however.

i don't know about Triskelion. personally, i'd rather go for sundering or hellkite (personal fave).

i wouldn't cut Jace. i would rather go up to four rather than down to 2 (or, ugh, 1).

i think a third Frantic Search could be cut though.  you don't want it too early in my opinion.  probably for Gifts.  possibly cut Ponder for Fact.  i don't really see how ponder is that great for this deck.

i don't see why you'd want Rebuild over Hurkyl's. 

[silvernail]

If you add Citadel I'd consider a strip mine and crucible of worlds as well as sundering titan as your tinker bot with wastelands SB. A strong mana denial package has been what I've personally ran in my slaver lists since day one. It's not always right for the metagame however, so figure out what you can expect to play against.

[Erayo5989]

If I were to go with the Mana denial package then sundering would be my tinker bot. But my metagame is fish,
shop, and dredge mainly.  The reason for Triskelion is its great with Welder and u can kill it against dredge.

[StrongIslandRob]

Hey nick this list was takin from Brian Demars - Control Slaver list from the 2005 Vintage Championship.. The list you have seems confused it wants to be a control deck until you get a welder then you hope for the best, i think you should observe this or older lists and look past the newly restricted cards and look at it as if now i have 6 open spots to do what i want. with the restrictions of brainstorm and thirst for knowledge you now have 6 open spots so i see room for 3 frantic search's, 3 spell pierce, or maybe even jace the wallet sculpter.
 

original list:

60 cards

1  Darksteel Citadel
2  Flooded Strand
4  Island
2  Polluted Delta
1  Tolarian Academy
2  Underground Sea
4  Volcanic Island
16 lands


4  Goblin Welder
1  Gorilla Shaman
1  Pentavus
1  Triskelion
7 creatures   

1  Ancestral Recall
1  Black Lotus
4  Brainstorm
1  Demonic Tutor
1  Echoing Truth
1  Fact or Fiction
1  Fire/Ice
4  Force of Will
1  Mana Crypt
4  Mana Drain
1  Mana Vault
2  Mindslaver
1  Mox Emerald
1  Mox Jet
1  Mox Pearl
1  Mox Ruby
1  Mox Sapphire
1  Mystical Tutor
1  Rack and Ruin
1  Sol Ring
4  Thirst for Knowledge
1  Time Walk
1  Tinker
1  Yawgmoth's Will
37 other spells

Sideboard
2  Blue Elemental Blast
1  Echoing Truth
1  Gorilla Shaman
1  Lava Dart
2  Pyroclasm
1  Rack and Ruin
3  Red Elemental Blast
2  Stifle
2  Tormod's Crypt
15 sideboard cards

At the current time the meta seemed to look alot like it does now so i don't think your deck is a bad call i would just update the sideboard maybe pithing needle, laeyline of the void, maybe even bolt.

[Metman]

I have been kicking around the idea of utilizing Riddlesmith as a discard outlet.  It is a "may" ability.  It also seems really awesome with SDT.  Uba Mask would an interesting inclusion with Riddlesmith and SDT too.  Just a thought.  Crucible seems really good right now especially when you are committed to discarding a certain amount of cards without Thirst for Knowledge giving you the option to discard one or two.  I think having maindeck artifact destruction is a must with MUD being so good right now.  Have something to Weld in to replace Sphere effects would be essential.  Red has plenty of options.  Fire//Ice is also really good right now considering Dark Confidant is excellent and the inclusion of Lotus Cobras in more and more decks. 

[Leooooh]

Hey

I am really glad to see that some people are working on a new version of Slaver deck. Here is the list I am testing:


Slaver 2k10

4 Goblin Welder
2 Gorilla Shaman
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Triskelion
(8)

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Frantic Search
1 Thirst for Knowledge
(18)

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tinker
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will
(5)

1 Jace the Mindsculptor
(1)

1 Black Lotus
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sensei's Top
1 Mindslaver
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Crucible of Worlds
(13)

4 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Islands
1 Strip Mine
(15)

Total: 60

It may need some changes, but this version is giving me some nice results. Here is a few explanations about some cards:

Triskelion: Why not Sundering Titan? Well, Vintage is becoming a more aggro format then before. Lotus Cobras, Dark Confidants, Welders, Noble Hierarchs, Trygons, Lodestones just to name a few guys. Triskelion handles all those guys and JACE too, that is seeing even more play. Combined with goblin Welder, this guy can do amazing things.

Gorilla Shaman: What we can say about this pesky guy. I simply love it. It kills a lot of hate that people will bring against Slaver, wrecks mana sources and against MUD/Stax, when combined with Welder (Kill a mox, then weld out a problem for the mox, and kill the mox again), well, many things are possible.

Myr Battlesphere: Thousand times better then Pentavus and Triskelavus. Go nuts with a Tolarian academy on the board, its a amazing beatstick, works good against stax and fish (Even better with Welder). The primary Bot choice for this deck.

Gifts Ungiven: Back in the day, people played Fact or Fiction in this slot. Since this new version uses Time Vault/Key, an EOT gifts for all the combo pieces with an active welder on the board is gg. In this version Gifts is far better for a lot of things, but I added him mainly because Vault/Key. Amazing card.

Crucible of Worlds: Well, to be honest I am on the fence about this card. It helps a lot the match against stax, helps you get more lands with 3 frantic Searches and can do the Strip Mine/Crucible lock. I am still working on it, to see if it deserves this slot.


About the absence of Spell Pierce and more Jaces: Well, I couldn't find a place for those cards. I think that 2 Jaces would be a good idea, maybe cutting the crucible for it. That is the only card I can see myself cutting to add him. The Spell Pierces weren't missed, since this deck does plenty of broken things (forcing the oponen to use their counters) and works on the mid/late game, where Pierce is normally a dead card. That is why I opted to keep the best hard counters in the deck.

So, any ideas/sugestions???

[Erayo5989]

I like the list you posted Leooooh.  It looks pretty solid.  There was a tournament recently where a Slaver list made Top 4 out of 90 players.  Here's the list by Jeff Anand:


4x City of Brass
3x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta
2x Underground Sea
2x Tropical Island
2x Volcanic Island
1x Tolarian Academy
1x Island

1x Black Lotus
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Ruby

2x Goblin Welder
1x Myr Battlesphere

1x Mindslaver
1x Time Vault
1x Voltaic Key
1x Tinker
2x Jace the Mindsculptor
4x Force of Will
3x Mana Drain
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Nature’s Claim
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Repeal
1x Yawgmoth’s Will
3x Preordain
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Gifts Ungiven
1x Merchant Scroll
1x Brainstorm
1x Sensei’s Divining Top
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Time Walk

SB:
1x Pithing Needle
2x Doom Blade
1x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Thoughtseize
2x Nature’s Claim
1x Pyroblast
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Yixilid Jailer
4x Leyline of the Void

I really like this list and it seems like there's a lot of potential here.  One card I was considering including in this list was Pernicious Deeds in place of the Repeal to battle off pesky Fish decks.  Other then that the list feels very solid.  Let me know what you guys think.

[silvernail]

Engineered explosives and ratchet bombs might be better than Deeds because they are artifacts.

[Erayo5989]

Yeah maybe 1 Ratchet Bomb Main Deck and 2 SB or something like that would probably work better.

The rest of the Top 8 at that tournament, which happens to be the meta I play in, was MUD (1st), Noble Fish (2nd), Meandeck Oath (3rd), Elephant Oath, Jace Control, Painter, Espresso Stax.  The meta break down was 37 Mana Drain decks, 20 Workshop decks, 10 Ritual decks, 13 Null Rod decks, and 10 Bazaar decks. With that type of meta I wanted to know if this list seems to be fine how it is or if it needs any fine tuning?

[silvernail]

A trinket mage package might be solid to help with aggro matches and grab silver bullets. Id run 2-3 trinket mage 1 pithing needle, 2 E. Explosives, 1 graveyard kill Artifact, a 0 or 1 cost artifact blocker (shield sphere possibly).

I'd also consider 1 helm of awakening SB to combo with leylines. I'd change the doom blades to lightning bolts or an Edict effect. Edicts are better vs oath guys and bolts are better vs jace + guys. Then you have the option of running a second or 3rd tinker target in the side. I'd also consider Serenity and Balance for the side if you want something extra for sweep effects. Sundering Titan might make a solid tinker target if you can manage it while you have a city and moxes for mana as opposed to duals like many other people.

Spell Pierce or Spell Snare may also be useful as a 2-3 of somewhere.

[roelke]

I made second place at the dutch vintage event in Breda yesterday playing a list similar to the one Jeff Anand piloted. In the maindeck I swapped an city of brass for a basic island. I did not want to open with double city hands; the damage might become to much. This was my sideboard:
3x nihil spellbomb (mostly because I didn't have my leylines available)
1 ravenous trap
1 Yixlid jailer
1 red elemental blast
1 pyroblast
2 duress
2 doom blade
2 nature's claim
1 jester's cap
1 trinisphere

The sphere should not have been there but I felt that I needed an effective anti-combo card. The maindeck performed really well and I used the blasts, claims, duresses and doomblades in the sideboard quite a few times.

One problem I ran into a few times are multiple spheres; when I get/keep them off the table it's okay, but paying 2/3 mana extra for everything equals to losing games. The answer I am thinking of is running a pair of Engineered explosives. They can be cast underneath spheres for just a few mana. Any thoughts?

[xouman]

A guy at local league (LCV) plays engineered explosives in the SB just against spheres (and ETW, obv :p). He is quite happy with them, accoding to him it's easy to take a couple of spheres for 2/3 + 2 mana.