TPS vs Long, what makes the difference?

[Ego_Sum]

I' m not sure if this is the correct forum to post this question, if it is not I apologize, and please don' t hesitate on moving it to the right place.

I' ve started playing competitive Vintage like 8-0 moths ago, so I know very few about vintage history. I' d like to ask to those vintegae veterans out there which is the main difference (or differences) about Pitch long decks and The Perfect Storm. Since I ' ve seen some people call TPS decks Long as well, my I assume that TPS is the evolution of Pitch long?, even if this is true what made it change the name?

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

[Bomberman!]

Hi, if i'm not mistaken TPS was one of the first Storm decks (after Grim long with burning wish no?) to come out.  When the DCI said it was ok to use Imperial Seal and Grim Tutor a new deck took form called Pitch Long. Pitch long is a faster version of the TPS deck using cards like 3-4 Cabal Ritual, 2-3 Grim tutors and even an infernal contract to win the game in the first turns.  TPS on ther other hand in my opinion is more solid since it plays a more controlish role in the first 1-2 turns with dures while trying to sneak bombs. They both have the ability to win games in the first 2-3 turns but Pitch has a higher percentage rate, but can also be disrupted easier. 

  Now with all the MUD no one really plays Pitch...they usually go the Dark confidant TPS rout (BOB Tendril's) 

[quicksilvervii]

I'll just leave this here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Long

Note the last name.

[Ego_Sum]

I already knew that the deck was named after Mr. Cadaverous bloom in my lap (at least this is what rumorology says...)

Thanks for the link.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

[AmbivalentDuck]

If I remember correctly, "Long" storm grew out of Burning Wish -> Yawg Win (as opposed to Academy -> Stroke of Genius) and continued to describe decks that tutored aggressively into Will even as B/R list changes happened.  By contrast, TPS grew out of Intuition-based storm decks and features heavier use of blue selection and control spells.

Nowadays, I'm not even sure that they remain distinct archetypes since you may well find Gifts Ungiven and Spell Pierce in either.

[Smmenen]

Short Answer:

TPS is a slower Combo deck with Force of Will that doesn't use Burning Wish, Death Wish or Grim Tutor.   Long uses one of the Wishes or Grim Tutor, is faster, 4-5 color, and generally doesn't play Force of Will.  

Long answer:

The Perfect Storm was primarily a European innovation circa 2004.  It was largely UB and was much slower.   It featured Force of Will.

January, 2005
Kenny Öberg
The Perfect Storm

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
4 Dark Ritual
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Duress
1 Necropotence
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
1 Cunning Wish
4 Force of Will
1 Mind's Desire
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Rebuild
1 Time Spiral
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Windfall
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Flooded Strand
3 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:
1 Brain Freeze
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Coffin Purge
1 Darksteel Colossus
2 Defense Grid
1 Echoing Truth
2 Hurkyl’s Recall
3 Hydroblast
1 Meditate
1 Rushing River
1 Stifle

For more: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/16270_So_Many_Insane_Plays_The_Perfect_Storm.html

Long began as a Burning Wish deck:

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/5820_Burning_Through_Type_One_With_The_Fastest_Deck_In_Magic.html

By Stephen Menendian

3 Chromatic Sphere
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
5 Moxen
1 Lotus Petal
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Underground Sea

4 Duress
4 Brainstorm
4 Burning Wish
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Timetwister
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Windfall
1 Tinker
1 Mind's Desire
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Memory Jar
1 Tendrils of Agony

Sideboard:

1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Diminishing Returns
4 Xantid Swarm
1 Balance
1 Primitive Justice
1 Simplify
1 Hull Breach
1 Regrowth
1 Vindicate
2 Seal of Cleansing

And when LED and Burning Wish were restricted, it became a Death Wish deck:

Death-Long:
By Stephen Menendian
Revised: 8/20/04

4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
1 Glimmervoid
1 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Black Lotus
1 Chrome Mox
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Crop Rotation
4 Dark Ritual

4 Duress
4 Brainstorm
1 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Death Wish
1 Burning Wish
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Tinker
1 Timetwister
1 Memory Jar
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Windfall
1 Necropotence
1 Mind's Desire
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain

Finishers:
1 Tendrils of Agony

Sideboard:
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Xantid Swarm
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Time Spiral
1 Balance
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Primitive Justice
1 Oxidize
1 Regrowth
1 Simplify
1 Hull Breach

Then, when Grim Tutor was legalized:

Grim Long
A Vintage deck, by Stephen Menendian
6th place at a StarCityGames Power 9 Tournament tournament in Richmond, Virginia, United States on 2006-03-26

1 Black Lotus
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

2 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Xantid Swarm
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
2 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Duress
3 Grim Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Mind's Desire
1 Regrowth
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Windfall
1 Yawgmoth's Will
4 City of Brass
1 Forbidden Orchard
3 Gemstone Mine
2 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy
   
Sideboard:

2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Xantid Swarm
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Chain of Vapor
3 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Shattering Spree

Then, Eric Becker created "Pitch Long," which substituted Duress effects for 4 Forces and 3 misdirections:

Pitch Long
A Vintage Magic deck, by Tommy Kolowith
2nd place at a Worlds tournament in Indianapolis, Indiana, United States on 2006-08-13
As reported at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/vintage06/welcome
Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

Enchantments
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Dark Ritual
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Rebuild
1 Vampiric Tutor

Sorceries
1 Demonic Tutor
3 Grim Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Infernal Contract
1 Mind's Desire
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Basic Lands
1 Island
1 Swamp

Lands
1 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea

Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy

Sideboard:
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Darksteel Colossus
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
2 Plague Spitter
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Stifle
1 Massacre

This looks alot like TPS, but the difference is that it still retains its "long" roots, which means the Grim Tutors as the replacement for Burning Wish/Death Wish as a way to tutor up Yawg Will and win the game.

Modern TPS is close to Long, because it's adapted some of that technology, but it retains its lineage in the European lists of 2004 rather than the faster combo decks of 2001-2002 in the US.  

[Ego_Sum]

Thank you all, specially Steve for the accurate details, that's lots of insight!

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

[nataz]

hmm, correct me if I'm wrong, but I want to say that I saw the first Dutch TPS lists a few days after the restriction of LED and Burning Wish. Until then all the hype had been about LED + BWish and not that many people had bothered with "slower" builds. 

[Tempus]

TPS was first build to beat 4Trini Staxx, therefore more lands, more bounce and FoW.

Long just tried to win as fast as possible. The first incarnations were Long with LED and BW futuring only 4 Duress as protection, same goes for Death Long and Grim Long. Pitch Long was an "evolution" of Grim Long as it tried to incorporate FoW to stop threatening 1st Turn spells when on the draw and included Misdirection as well as they function as FoW 5+ as long as your playing spells. As the main competitor of Pitch Long was Gifts, that was usually the case, due to it having it's fundamental turn earlier.

Due to TPS having more protection spells and lands the big spells aka Necro, Bargain and Desire became weeker as they fizzled more often than Longs, therefore the interpretation "That Plays Stalled".

Todays TPS is just a shadow of old TPS and Long as it still has the plan to sculpt it's hand and then go off, but it's missing the key spell for it to do that: Brainstorm. Same goes for Pitch Long. Shuffling not needed protection spells and lands away (or digging for them) was key in those decks.