Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

[nataz]

 Show me in what situation new tezz kills/wins faster is all I'm asking.

Null Rod on the table/Sphere effect keeping you off your 5th mana.

[vassago]

I was out of line, sorry for being an asshole.

 It seems faster, because it comes online quicker, and it's easier to protect.  I have found it is much easier to play aggressively due to the animate artifacts(race their hand via their life total) or dig for more mana for more of your own disruption(Spell Pierce/thoughtseize). Is it actually faster? In terms of actually ending the game, I believe the two are probably acting at the same pace. Granted, 1.0 "ends" the game faster with the combo, but it's going to take more than a couple of turns to actually kill the opponent. 2.0 at it's best can either kill in 3 turns or in 2, depending on whether or not you animate artifacts, or try to ultimate them. I admit, this point is now just arguing over irrelevant details, but I guess I owe it to try and explain the communication errors.

I guess 1.0 ends the game for the opponent much faster than it does for you, but what's the opportunity cost for this? Being more easily stopped by random hate? Tapping out and saying go? Not being able to have mana to back up your spell(spell pierce/thoughtsieze, whichever you play)? I would argue that the extra two turns it seems to take to actually end the game with 2.0 is made up by it's ability to be more resiliant and build up mana. The way I see it, is the opportunity cost is options/secuirty for the glass cannon. I do not think the "raw power" in 1.0 is good enough anymore. There are too many options for the opponent to do somethign in that one turn you give them.

On a sidenote, in the shop matchup, it provides protection in two very relevant ways, board position and creatures. Being able to dig for more mana and using other artifatcs as a line of defense. Being able to race the shop matchup, while building up a mana base is actually very good.

[TheWhiteDragon]

 
I was out of line, sorry for being an asshole.
No problem.  Getting heated happens.  Hopefully you understand I was looking for examples of new tezz being "faster."

 It seems faster, because it comes online quicker, and it's easier to protect.....Is it actually faster? In terms of actually ending the game, I believe the two are probably acting at the same pace. Granted, 1.0 "ends" the game faster with the combo, but it's going to take more than a couple of turns to actually kill the opponent. 2.0 at it's best can either kill in 3 turns or in 2, depending on whether or not you animate artifacts, or try to ultimate them.
I think we both agree that on its own tezz 1.0 is faster at eliminating your opponent with time vault.  This guy definitely can protect himself though which is huge vs lodestone, fish, confidant, etc.

I have found it is much easier to play aggressively due to the animate artifacts(race their hand via their life total)
This is a valid point
or dig for more mana for more of your own disruption(Spell Pierce/thoughtseize).
I think this is a wash with tezz 1.0, because he can similarly tutor up lotus to get drain online or the appropriate color mox for duress/pierce. 

I guess 1.0 ends the game for the opponent much faster than it does for you, but what's the opportunity cost for this? Being more easily stopped by random hate? Tapping out and saying go? Not being able to have mana to back up your spell(spell pierce/thoughtsieze, whichever you play)? I would argue that the extra two turns it seems to take to actually end the game with 2.0 is made up by it's ability to be more resiliant and build up mana. The way I see it, is the opportunity cost is options/secuirty for the glass cannon.
I assume you are pushing out either tezz as soon as you hit the appropriate mana, possibly after leading with duress.  If you wait to 6+ mana to back up either guy with mana drain, you probably are losing anyway.  Tezz 2.0 can dig for you to possibly find the right colored mana to protect him from spells, tezz 1.0 garauntees the right color mana with mox/lotus if you need to protect him from spells.

I do not think the "raw power" in 1.0 is good enough anymore. There are too many options for the opponent to do something in that one turn you give them.
I am not sure if tezz 1.0 is totally outmoded even though it is not played heavily.  I think it is more a fear of MUD flooding the meta.  Things that hurt tezz 1.0 hurt tezz 2.0 as well.  Both "animates" get around null rod, trygon crushes either plan, and spot removal is an equal pain to both.  2.0 can probably kill faster with aggro mode if null rod is in play.

On a sidenote, in the shop matchup, it provides protection in two very relevant ways, board position and creatures. Being able to dig for more mana and using other artifatcs as a line of defense. Being able to race the shop matchup, while building up a mana base is actually very good.
I can see this guy as better in the MUD matchup and possibly fish (though claims, plows, trygon, pridemage, really make both plans terrible).  On the other hand, this guy requires black, which is usually in the form of a non-basic U-sea.  Duals are bad vs shops as we all know.  Also, I tend to cut out any spell costing more than 3 vs shop matches.  9-13 spheres just make anything more than 3cc unplayable.  Both tezz cost more than 3.

As a final note, which may have been mentioned before, since this guy costs 1 less, has built in protection, gains incremental card advantage...another card comes to mind that is pure blue (wasteproof).  Why would JtMS not be better in duplicates than running this guy?
 

[vassago]

Duals are bad vs shops as we all know. anything more than 3cc unplayable.

By this line of reasoning, Jace is unplayable, which is not true. Also, I'll trade one land to race in that match up or to insure that I'll get more mana. But for the record, I'd try and race...

Why would JtMS not be better in duplicates than running this guy?

I run both. They are both excellent engines.

I think we both agree that on its own tezz 1.0 is faster at eliminating your opponent with time vault.

Actually, I don't agree with this. Just because you stop interacting with your opponent doesn't mean you've won the game. After having had thought about it for some time, and going over the games I have played, they both end the game in the same amount of time. I said this in the last reply, but I don't think you got that.

I think this is a wash with tezz 1.0, because he can similarly tutor up lotus to get drain online or the appropriate color mox for duress/pierce...tezz 1.0 garauntees the right color mana with mox/lotus if you need to protect him from spells

I don't see this as big of an issue as you do. Granted, if you're are tutoring up moxen with 1.0 then something isn't going all that great anyway. You're also neglecting the interactions between Top, top deck tutors and Jace. Not too mention you have you use the ability to be able to ultimate if you are planning too. Not to mention, you don't always care which artifact you happen to hit, whether it's top, needle, e-e or whatever artifacts are crammed into the deck. Most of the time, back up spells are cast before 2.0 actually resolves.

[Ozymandias]

In a vacuum, I would agree that old Tezz and Jace are both stronger than new Tezz. Thankfully, vintage is not a vacuum. Tezzeret has a couple advantages that give him his own potential niche--the top 3 being as follows.

1) He plays great anti-Jace and anti-old Tezz defense. Preemptively legend-ruling oTezz and getting an artifact or a beater, and being able to one-shot a lot of Jaces, means he's alright in a straight fight
2) He helps you get permanents out quickly-- a huge help versus Stax.
3) He's an effective answer to Null Rod, and isn't shut down by it, since he gives you things to do with your garbage artifacts.

I think he at least deserves a slot for testing.

[ReubenG]

In a vacuum, I would agree that old Tezz and Jace are both stronger than new Tezz. Thankfully, vintage is not a vacuum. Tezzeret has a couple advantages that give him his own potential niche--the top 3 being as follows.

1) He plays great anti-Jace and anti-old Tezz defense. Preemptively legend-ruling oTezz and getting an artifact or a beater, and being able to one-shot a lot of Jaces, means he's alright in a straight fight
2) He helps you get permanents out quickly-- a huge help versus Stax.
3) He's an effective answer to Null Rod, and isn't shut down by it, since he gives you things to do with your garbage artifacts.

I think he at least deserves a slot for testing.

I agree with all of the above.  I actually like Tezz 2.0 in a deck with Null Rod.  Drop him on a turn 2 or 3 and digging for one of your 3-4 null rods, dropping Null Rod the next turn and swinging with a dead mox of your own for 5.  Shuts down the opponents Moxes and Time Vault, while mitigating Null Rod's drawback for you.  Beating down with a 5/5 Null Rod seems like fun.

[Razvan]

Yeah, I think that some of the arguments here were presented about Jace TMS as well. Stupid Jace...

I think the most exciting thing is the fact that it is 4 mana. I mean, you do sort of need another artifact (usually a 5th mana) to make him really good (such as fighting against Jace slightly faster), but that's neither here nor there.

I will always be excited about new Planeswalkers!

[TheWhiteDragon]

I like the idea of playing this Tezz WITH null rod.  I think that is actually the best idea yet.  This tezz can be solid in a deck that is built around it.  Off the top of my head, i can think of an awesome suite:

4x revoker
4x needle
4x null rod
Xx Chalice
8x Solomoxcrypt
4x Tezz 2.0

This would basically build the deck around the new tezz and have a LOT of disruption.  Being U/B, you can also run walk, recall, 4 fow, drains, pierce, duress, etc.  This could actually be quite a house.  Running the blue artifact sweepers will sure up the shop match too.  Lots of potential with this guy when I think about him IN a null rod shell.  In the old Tezz build, i still think the old Tezz was better, but building a deck around this guy with null rods, chalices, and 8 needle effects could do some serious damage.  The only question on a build like this is how to beat oath.

On first thought, I propose this deck:

4x Tezz, Agent

2x Null rod
4x Chalice
3x needle
4x revoker
8x solomoxcrypt
1x sphinx oTSW

4x fow
4x spell pierce
2x thoughtseize
1x hurkylls
1x e-truth
1x DT
1x vamp
1x mystical
1x ancestral
1x timewalk
1x tinker
1x brainstorm

1x tolarian academy
4x U-sea
4x Polluted Delta
1x swamp
5x island

23 Mana might be light, esp with null rods and chalices.  I think this has a good aggro plan between 4x tezz, 4x revoker, tinker/sphinx.  The disruption is obviously absurd with 4 chalice, 2 rod, 4 revoker, 3 needle, 4 fow, 4 pierce, 2 seize, hurks, and etruth.  I'm thinking this can basically shut off any card with an activation and make bigger bodies than opposing decks.  There are probably other things I am missing, but on first thought, this seems like a very solid idea.  Kudos to the guy who thought of running this Tezz WITH Null rod for sparking this train of thought.

[TheWhiteDragon]

On a somewhat related note, but worthy of its own post, a couple things I had issue with:

I do feel jace is mostly unplayable vs shops.  In oath I can never get 4 mana with chalice and spheres clogging the way.  I keep 1 jace on the off hand I start and get lotus, island, jace.  I cut the other jace, tezz, etc.  I run thirst as it mimics the jace effect for Emrakul/BSC; I run tinker as it is bonkers early.  Other than that every spell costs 2<.  I can't ever get to 3+cc spells consistently vs a deck with 4 chalice, possibly rods, and 9-13 spheres, so i really don't see how everyone else is easily dropping tezz 2.0, jace, gifts, etc.  I must really have bad luck vs shops I guess.

Also, when my opponent can no longer interact, I call that winning.  Yes there is the technicality of taking a few turns to actually deal 20 damage, but when they can't get out of a time vault lock, they usually concede anyway and it is only a matter of time before I swing for lethal.  It's like when I cast turn 1 trini, turn 2 smokey, turn 3 crucible.  Once that trini resolves, they can't cast anything.  When I follow with the other pieces, they are hard locked.  No, the opponent isn't "dead" but the game is over for all intensive purposes.  On that note I still consider Tezz 1.0 "faster".  Removing the oponnent's interaction is akin to winning for me.  If I can A) stop my opponent from winning on turn X, or, B) have him actually killed by turn X+1, I'll take option A.

The last thing is the "protection" of the glass cannon.  Both can get extra mana open to protect (Tezz 1.0 can do this in a guaranteed way as opposed to a "maybe it's in my top 5").  But in traditional shells, Tezz has a suite of 4xfow, drain, pierce, etc.  Usually Tezz is drain mana'd into, so you have the extra 1-2 mana open anyway.  I don't see this glass cannon as so fragile unless you are facing several fish.

Both tezz get permanents into play vs shops, but tezz 1.0 can do it under spheres/chalice. 

[ReubenG]

I like the idea of playing this Tezz WITH null rod.  I think that is actually the best idea yet.  This tezz can be solid in a deck that is built around it.  

Kudos to the guy who thought of running this Tezz WITH Null rod for sparking this train of thought.

I was thinking a similar line, but with more duress and running confidant.  I also agree revoker will work well in a deck like this in hand with Null Rod and Tezz2.0.  Here is a untested list I was thinking of quickly put together:

1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Dark Confidant
3 Null Rod
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
4 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Academy Ruins
1 Sol Ring
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Steel Sabotage
1 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Mana Drain
1 Sensei's Divining Top

I think Tezz2.0 ultimate will be great with confidant and thoughtsieze.  Goal would be to disrupt, land a confidant, play tezz2.0 to get Null Rod or Revoker, and then ultimate next turn and land rod or revoker to clamp down the game.   The UB will be a really stable manabase and could even run strip/wasteland with a cruicible for attacking weaker manabases.

[serracollector]

I actually built a deck on MWS just two nights ago based around:

2-3 Tezz 2.0
4 x Confidant
4 x Revoker
X x Top
restricted cards
6-8 duress/thoughtseize

The difference I am seeing in some is:

Tinker target - in Tezz 2.0 your tinker target should be Myr Battlesphere.  No if's about it, this card makes Tezz 2.0 Ultimate a GG, or you can animate the 1/1 Myr's into 5/5 beat sticks. 
Time Sieve - since new tezz is UB, and you should have XX amount of artifacts anyways, a 1 of these is not a bad idea.  Think of it as time walk #2, and saccing 5 artifacts, after finding 2-3 or animating 1-2, is not a problem for a free turn.

I personally play no FoW or Pierce or Drain in my version because of the synergy between 8 duress efx and Revoker.  Revoker allows you to leave cards such as jace, time vault, key, moxen, metalworker etc. etc.  in there hand, and you more or less ONLY need to worry about their counter spells or Y.win etc.

Yes the two tezz work on different wave lengths, but with cards such as revoker, and the synergy between confidant and revoker and myr battlesphere, he seems to have his place (imo anyways).

Null rod is a possiblilty, BUT if I played it that way, I would also play something like 2-3 Slaughter pact, for a few reasons:

1. 0 CC for confidant, not pain, all gain.
2. Can kill lodestones/tinker bots, for free or 1-2 mana pending spheres.
3.  Can kill one of your own animated artifacts.  This may sound silly, but I have animated a Mana Crypt, swung for 5, then EOT slaughtered it so I didn't die to the flip.  I could easily see the same scenerio coming up with Null Rod, or opponent's Rod/Artifact mana's.

[Dark4Ever]

btw Slaugher Pact can't kill a confident.

[serracollector]

BTW when you draw slaughter pact off Confidant you lose 0 life.....oh yea that's what I said and meant.

[brokenbacon]

I don't know if anyone noticed this yet, but T3zz 2.0 stops Blightsteel/Tinker Bots in their tracks.
"Target Artifact becomes a 5/5" means Blightsteel puts on training wheels.
That said, I really like ReubenG's list. However, I would change the following in light of the situation:

1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Dark Confidant
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Null Rod
3 Thoughtseize
4 Preordain
4 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Swamp
3 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Sol Ring
1 Myr Battlesphere
3 Mana Drain
1 Sensei's Divining Top


-1 Hurks (Jace, T3zz 2.0 do the job)
-1 Delta (Diversify fetch base)
-2 Duress (So much disruption already, it's not needed)
-1 Engineered Explosives (Not needed in the meta today)
-1 Academy Ruins (Too cute, bad idea - invest card draws and 2 mana, plus activating the land - probably not so great to get back a Revoker or what have you)
-1 Library (Revoker shuts off Jace, the reason to play Library is Jace.)
-2 Sabotage - meh. I'm not too impressed about this guy. But your call.
+2 Misty Rainforest, +1 Scalding Tarn (Lands lands lands lands lands - when Null Rod is out, they work wonders.)
+4 Preordain (This card is the shit. The shit. It hits more lands when you have Null Rod out. It burns bad draws. It is a star player, through and through.)
+1 Bob (Drawing cards is pretty good. So is beating face.)
+1 Revoker (Yes, I think it's worth it)

[Cyberpunker]

do you really have enough articles to take advantage of Tezzeret?

[vassago]

Cards I think should be in the deck, regardless of which version you opt for:

Pithing Needle: because P.Needle> Revoker
Nihil Spellbomb: Randomly shuts off Yawgmoth's Party, and can halt dredge.
Mox Opal: It taps for blue and black. Nuff said.
Trinket Mage: This guy does a lot more than beat for two. He fetches needed utility cards, he mana ramps(I love getting Mana Crypt with this card), he filters draws(Top), he finds needed combo pieces(key) and he'll even deliver an old fashion.

Null Rod is cute, and I play one in my sideboard so that I can randomly tutor for it, but it's kind of a nonbo. Then again, I play ALOT more artifact mana.

[Darkenslight]

Hmm...Would Grim Monolith have a place in a Tezz 2.0 deck?  IT seems like a strong mana accelerant that stays on the board, which is fun for Tezz' Ultimate.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

No, certainly not befor mana vault at least. Most of the time I'd rather keep blue mana open for instants the 1 shot three colorless that I paid 2 for.

has anyone considered playing this walker in a painter shell?

[Ozymandias]

do you really have enough articles to take advantage of Tezzeret?

No. More articles are required, particularly ones about Ichor Wellspring.

[vassago]

has anyone considered playing this walker in a painter shell?

I like this idea 

[nineisnoone]

It's a 5/5 (and then some) with haste that is blue/black.  That is pretty playable in my opinion. 

The +1 is kind of a throwaway ability in my opinion.  Dig 5 for an artifact or Swing for 5?  Maybe worth a single copy if you are hitting lots of creatures or Tezz.

I doubt it will ever be more than a singleton however as it is pointless in multiples (at least Jace's ability will let you shuffle multiples back into the deck).  If you made a Uwb Bomberman, that would probably be the strongest case for the card since they run a lot of artifacts.

[Meddling Mike]

Now that people have had ample opportunity to test and play in tournaments with this card I'm curious to hear what people's experiences of the card have been. I stated earlier in the thread that I thought the card would not make the cut in vintage decks because it's competing for space with Jace and the Seeker. Have people found that to be the case?

[Daenyth]

From my testing, he's absolutely brutal. He doesn't occupy the same slots in the deck as Jace, the way I see it, the only concern is for how many 4cmc cards you run. I feel like running 2/3 on Tezz/Jace or even 3/3 would be warranted in some decks. Typically if they don't kill him the turn you play him, or if they're not overwhelmingly ahead anyway, you just win. The 5/5s are amazing and every time I resolve him he's taken over the game. Jace has a similar effect of course, but there's something to be said for reducing your opponent to 0 life for 0 mana after the initial investment, instead of just sitting drawing cards. He also provides resilience against null rods to a degree. I recommend running him in a list with some dark rituals; casting him off an Island + Swamp is very nice, and if he comes down before they have a chance to get aggressive, he becomes stronger. I did feel some anti-synergy with Mana Drains sometimes, since you don't want to expose too may duals, it means you usually want to fetch out 2 islands and a swamp, then drop the dual, ideally. That's not always a possible line of play, and sometimes you do want the duals sooner, so you can get cut off. It's a problem that Jace does not have nearly as bad since he only needs one color.

I'm hardly an expert player so some of my judgements may be wrong, but I do really feel that he's the real deal.

[vassago]

Unfortunately, we still struggle to get real numbers in our tournaments here, but I can describe how it as been so far.

I have been playing the following split of planeswalkers since before Besieged even came out, 2 tez2.0 and 3 Jace. Daenyth is pretty much right on about the animated artifacts, they're a bit of a crushing. I like the way new Tez acts like an engine, some games you make 2 5/5's and smash their face in before they know what is happening. Sometimes, in blue mirrors, the +1 works well with top(flip top, ship bad cards to the bottom, keep top) and Jace(ship bad cards to the bottom). The way I have my list built, the ultimate doesn't have to be a very high number a lot fo the times, due to me running Dark Confidant. Trinket Mage has been a beast at delivering Top and Key, and the occasional Needle/EE. Preordain is very synergystic with this deck, while thoughtsieze proved to be better than Spell Pierce at the defensive front. Mana Drain is somewhat clunky, also mentioned by Daenyth, so I only play 2 now. Due to playing the full amount of artifact mana(5moxen, Opal, petal, lotus, vault, crypt, ring) getting four mana on turn 2 happens, a lot. Some games against shops, I have kept hands full of mana and a jace/tez, and gotten there on the draw. Not having force for metalworker obviously sucks, but sometimes they just don't do anything to kill you fast enough.

More specific stuff:

I have tutored for Timewalk more than anything with this deck. Not that it’s all that important, but taking extra turns with Bob, or a 5/5 maker, tends to really put pressure on people.

Also, seemingly unimportant, I generally don’t care about Ancestral with this list. By that I mean I hope you counter it, I have some bombs waiting to get clearance for landing.  Like Smenemenemen once said in the Vintage Adepts q&a about said card, it’s important to know the role of it in your deck, and I see it as a sick bait spell here.

EE for two has turned out to be somewhat relevant, e.q. Oath, lots of sphere of effects, opposing Bobs, timevault… the list goes on and on. Randomly, you’ll get a Welder or some other annoying  1 drops. It might not be the most optimal card, but between my personal preference, and the need to keep the artifact count at around 16-18ish, it seems like a shoe in, especially if I can get it…

Which brings me to Trinket Mage again.  I think I have said enough about this guy.

 Pithing Needle naming Wasteland or Misty Rainforest  has been some of the sweetest plays ever! Naming Jace/Top when they don’t have anything, either due to empty hand or a thoughtseized inspection, can sometimes buy you the two or three turns you need to end the game.


Anyway, the deck feels like big mana planeswalkers some games, and other games it feels like a control deck(play mana, draw cards, stop relevant stuff  +while attacking with Bob or 5/5's).

[Daenyth]

Here's the list I've been testing with lately. I'm still working out the kinks. I'm likely going to cut the waste plan, and I thought I already had... I really start needing to keep my decklists in dropbox. I'll check my other computer later. The sideboard is pretty awful too.

2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Thoughtseize
3 Spell Pierce
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Brainstorm
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Tinker
1 Mana Crypt
1 Myr Battlesphere
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
3 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Force of Will
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Pithing Needle
1 Trinket Mage
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Mind Twist
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Dark Ritual
1 Black Lotus
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mystical Tutor
SB: 1 Duress
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
SB: 1 Swamp
SB: 3 Steel Sabotage
SB: 1 Rebuild
SB: 3 Yixlid Jailer
SB: 2 Massacre

[vassago]

I tried to do something with Tendrils with this card, but I ended up just playing TPS after a few games, and cut all the Tez stuff. Does it work out for you?

[Daenyth]

I haven't done enough testing to know if it's optimal, but I have won games with it and I do like the rituals on their own merit, so the 1xTendrils is not a horrible include. I like it so far but I'm open to changing that package.