Let's Try this again, Academy for 2011

[AshThaReaper804]

Here's my academy list, this deck has been revised for over 5 years into what it is now, you may see it at Richmond Comix events coming soon, as well as Star City if they ever do another vintage tournament.
First a little background on me, I was top 8 at Cary Cup in North Carolina, with Flash. Also, when star city was running vintage tournaments, I played a flash/ board grindstone deck and stomped for several rounds. I've been playing magic since I was 12 and will accept little criticism on this deck, just thought I'd post my brainchild.

Maindeck:

Manajin:
5 moxen
Black Lotus
Sol Ring
Grim Monolith
Mox Opal
Mana Vault
Lotus Petal
Mox Diamond

Counter:
4 Force of Will

Draw:
Ancestral Recall
3 Meditate
3 Impulse
4 Time Spiral
2 Frantic Search
Timetwister

Other Artifacts:
2 Scroll Rack
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Helm of awakening
Blightsteel Colossus
 
Bounce:
2 Capsize

Search:
Tinker
Mystical Tutor
4 Crop Rotation

Win:
2 Stroke of Genius

Land:
4 Seat of Synod
4 Tree Of Tales
1 Boseiju Who Shelters All
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Tolaria West
1 Petrified Field
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge

The basic win for the deck is create infinite mana by bouncing the Candelabra of tawnos to your hand, replaying for free or 1 (depending upon whether or not you have helm on the board) and with 8-9 artifacts un-tapping Academy and Minamo to Stroke the opp. for game. The annoyance of a twenty minute turn through 4 time spirals is enough to make most weak players scoop.
I've done thousands of games of testing, and now with Blightsteel the win ratio is much higher. The deck can be inconsistent some days, but it's a lot of fun to play all the time. I will rep academy until the day I die, thanks for your time....

[Lemnear]

A few changes due to own testing

Play more tolarian West instead of crop Rotation, Blue Sun zenith instead of stroke (reshuffle), a Full Set of Frantic Search and mox diamonds, cut candelabra (if you go into the combo it is no more needed believe me, otherwise mind over matter is much better), grim monolith and racks, add some Islands too or you get raped by any kind of mana denial, Divining Top instead of Impulses

I had some nice results while playing 18 Lands and those artifacts:

1 Academy
4 tolaria West
1 p. Fields
4 Seat of the synod
1 boseiju
1 School @ Waters Edge
6 Islands

4 Mox diamonds
5 beta moxen
1 Lotus
1 petal
1 Sol Ring
1 man's vault
1 opal
4 SDT

[AshThaReaper804]

Thanks for your input, Candelabra is kinda important in my opinion but I'll try it your way. I like Blue Sun's Zenith which is why I may switch from stroke. Basic Lands are good, I understand where you're coming from, with Wasteland out there it helps a lot. I tried multiple mox diamonds but land flood was a problem at 18, though diamond helps I didn't want too many useless mana sources. I wanted to work div top into the deck but couldn't justify a slot really, I may try again. Thanks again for your input, also, I forgot to include Fastbond in my list somewhere I was running one card less, can't tell what slot though, until I break the deck down again. The Fastbond was crucially important to replaying Academy or dropping extra artifact lands to get the artifact count up higher, quicker.
Again I appreciate your opinion

[Lemnear]

As I've seen your crop rotations I instantly thought about fastbond but had always Problems with the third color (I used to play UB, forgot to mention and my mental note about the manabase was not correct; lacks U.Seas). Moreover fastbond needs a rock-solid landcount like mox diamond but the moxen help your Academy to go off ... And seriously there's only one land you want to be on the field

The SDT are ok in the UB build with several shuffle effects; possible they'll underperform in your shell UG

[AshThaReaper804]

I yanked SDT from my mainboard after a few trials, currently I'm testing Vault/Key Combo in the main deck and Scepter/ Chant combo. I love the use of Orim's chant in the Neo Academy style builds, it's just good...

[Lemnear]

Scepter for maybe ~8 imprintable spells and a color-splash? Doesn't sound good, man. Moreover you don't have a relyable access to White mana. If you're looking for Combo protection try Defense Grid

[Darkenslight]

Scepter for maybe ~8 imprintable spells and a color-splash? Doesn't sound good, man. Moreover you don't have a relyable access to White mana. If you're looking for Combo protection try Defense Grid

Chant's decent in its own right because it's first ability is to stop your opponent from casting spells.  One thought, though: could this be turned into a Solidarity-esque deck?  By which I mean, to combo out in one massive turn using Turnabouts, Resets and fast artimana?  Could be fun to test.

[Lemnear]

Reset allows only playing the combo instant, which does mean all sorcery speed Cards are worthless. This idea is very Bad, sorry.

So, to light the confusion, I'll post our teams list:


TRS - UB Academy Draw 2011

1x Tolarian Academy
1x Boseiju, who shelters all
1x Petrified Field
1x Minamo, School at Waters Edge
3x Underground Sea
3x Polluted Delta
3x Misty Rainforest
3x Island

1x Black Lotus
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Vault
5x Beta Moxen
1x Mana Crypt

4x Exploration Map
4x Sensei Divining Top
3x Mind over Matter
2x Blue Sun's Zenith
4x Frantic Search
4x Force of Will
1x Wipe Away
1x Tinker
1x Blightsteel Colossus
4x Spell Pierce
1x Timetwister
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Merchant Scroll
1x Time Walk


I hope this one needs no further explanation how to play. Otherwise I'll write up a lil' primer if People wish for.

[TopSecret]

I don't know if this goes against the point of the deck depending on what the original poster wanted, but why not include some Emrakul? He can't be countered, so you don't even need to go infinite to cast him.

Also, Oath could be added to this list as a plan b if Emrakuls were added, but perhaps that's not the direction people want to take this.

Maindecking a single Crucible of Worlds might not be bad, too, since against certain decks getting Academy to stick around may be difficult.

[Lemnear]

I don't know if this goes against the point of the deck depending on what the original poster wanted, but why not include some Emrakul? He can't be countered, so you don't even need to go infinite to cast him.

Also, Oath could be added to this list as a plan b if Emrakuls were added, but perhaps that's not the direction people want to take this.

Maindecking a single Crucible of Worlds might not be bad, too, since against certain decks getting Academy to stick around may be difficult.

The Crucible may replace the Petrified Field. @Emrakul: If you have 15 mana you're already in the infi-loop and so I don't think it adds much to the Deck.

Oath needs Orchard and if you do another step further and realize that this more of a primary kill than a second One, you might finish with a regular Emrakul&Blightsteel Oath, which wasn't the desired Goal of this thread and I don't want this thread to evolve into any discussion about how viable this deck might be or if other Deck-cores aren't better.

[AshThaReaper804]

Haven't had a chance to reply recently, I yanked scepter, the white source problem is apparent. The Vault/ Key combo works pretty well, but with limited tutoring doesn't fire all the time. I like your list for U/B academy, seems good. And to the guy who commented about reset, I had thought about that in previous years, but slots are getting tight, tried turnabout too a number of times, just didn't pan out. Currently I am just running the splash green for crop rotation and fastbond, it seems good. The versions of academy people will see at Richmond Comix will all be different, I have arranged a group of players who are interested in teaming up to make some waves. Just thought I'd let yal know. Furthermore, I like the crucible idea with fastbond, it seems good in this build, now to find a slot....

[Lemnear]

I still don't think Green is needed; fastbond and crucible are not really needed for the deck to go-off.

Dropping some Lands post-zenith is pointless because You're winning already. Or do you suggest to Run it with Time Spiral? Time Spiral is Bad anyways in this Deck, because it is only good when you have already much mana and feeds your Opponent with a fresh grip of counter

and crop rotation wreck you of countered. Expedition Map is an ARTIFACT (Even a nice blank draw for more Academy mana and wasteland backup), don't eat up lands, doesn't require colored mana  and is near as fast as rotation.

Have you already tested some games with my posted List?

[AshThaReaper804]

I plan on testing against it tomorrow, until then I see what you mean with expedition map, it is good, I don't really worry about counterspells, most people will let you get the crop rotation off fearing other spells more. Time Spiral is my win most of the time. I added a mind over matter recently just to try it again, not too much help other than to pitch to force early game. I also added 2 frantic search's, I like the untap ability a lot when you get going. I'll post back tomorrow after testing your build.

[serracollector]

@lemnear:  I love your decklist, only 1 thing I would change:

-1 Mind over Matter
+1 Show and tell

Reasons:
2nd out after tinker for Collosus
A cheap way to drop Mind over matter
A way to get tolarian academy into play even if you already played another land.

Also, I see 9 fetches and no brainstorm.  -1 map for 1 brainstorm?

otherwise great list.

[Lemnear]

I think Mind over Matter is THE essential spell in the game and I had problems to find one by playing only 2, especially against aggressive disruption. I also use it as discard outlet 4 BSC and to stall vs. Aggro and manascrew control. Discard useless Cards like Lands to tap opponents islands, Advance to 2nd mainphase and go off without fearing Drain and shit. Makes my own Pierces even better!

@Serra: nice to hear you like the list, pal. I decided not to run brainstorm in favor of the Full set of Frantics. But feel free to exchange a brainstorm for a Frantic. Show and Tell was thrown in the deck while development but was cutted again because it does nothing. You should have your turn 2 Academy ~85% of the time and once you have Academy, manacheating (drawing your Deck and hardcast BSC+Time Walk is 3rd out in addition to tinker and Opponent drawing dead) is pretty pointless. The only Problem you might face is digging 4 the zenith or the MoM. Therefore I feel the Frantic Searches are the weakest link in the deck in terms of digging; I consider some other Cards like Impuls and the like

@Ash: I would always spell Pierce your crop rotation and Time Walk you! A countered Rotation eats 2 Cards and a landdrop ... Nearly worth a Force of will. Rotation always grabs Academy, Workshop or bazaar. None of your opponents will be happy seeing any one of those so a counter is near garantied. My list is created to work under Spheres and mana denial in general. Obviously I have no idea about your (testing-)meta.

[AshThaReaper804]

My testing generally includes playing the classics: Storm, Ichorid, Nine Spheres, R/G aggro, Pschatog, etc... anything I can play against really. Some tests go better than others, my Academy build is really volatile in its hand play so I am currently trying use of Intuition , at 4 copies, neutering some of the tech in the deck.

[serracollector]

This might be just win more, but meh, but have you tried either Consecrated Sphinx, or Psychosis Crawler as a 1 of?  Or 1 of each.  With all the draw 7's, well, draw 7 + Sphinx is draw 21, and with Crawler, thats gg.  Just a thought.

[AshThaReaper804]

Chosis crawler seems like an odd but good play, I might try a one of

[Lemnear]

Damn, you could even run Confidants in the Frantic Search slots XD

Doesn't hurt with 4 tops

[Smmenen]

I would definitely run some number of Tops and mox Opals.   I don't understand why you don't have any. 

[Lemnear]

Did you adress my posted list, Stephen? I run Tops btw. But I agree with the Opals. I make room for 3 of them by cutting a Island, Minamo and the boseiju. I never needed the 2 legendary lands in my own testing and 16 lands is indeed a Bit much.

The Frantic Search slots are still unsatisfying for digging. Maybe I should Run more Zenith and MoM themselves.

[serracollector]

In place of 3 frantic  searches you could try:

1 Helm of Awakening (or etherium sculptor)
1 Future Sight
1 Meditate

Helm + Sight + Top = draw your deck.

Meditate is good on its own vs Smokestack and Tanglewires.   Even better as draw 4 for 2 mana when you are going off anyways.  Just my thoughts, hope it helps.

Also I noticed you play the Tinker bot but no Jar.  Shouldn't Memory Jar and Windfall be auto includes in this? 

[Lemnear]

Windfall is not good on the draw and gets weaker each turn. Memory Jar is indeed a strong addition I completely forgot Xp

I will test this weekend with a teammate and post the updated list sunday. Thx so far dudes

[serracollector]

I was thinking of the list with 4 x Timespiral when I was thinking of Windfall and Psychosis Crawler.  Didn't notice your list has no Timespirals.