[Discussion] Gro/GAT and Gro Variants

[Ric_Flair]

Since the old data is gone, which is a good thing in my mind--tabula rasa, I felt the need to start this thread.  I have been interested in the Gro/GAT archetype since its emergence in 1.x.  The transition into Vintage has allowed the deck to thrive.  I started with the deck because it is cheaper to build than Keeper or Tog and still has enough punch with power cards to win.  It is fun to play and not that hard to assemble.  I will first outline the basic variants, then a history of the deck, some current winning builds, then my version, then problems for the deck.  Note that I am merely a student of the deck, true experts like Maxim, GI, and Dave Hernandez, please add your voices--they were a tremendous help last time.

Gro/GAT Decks

Pre Gro:  The traditional Gro deck, emerging from 1.x was a Blue deck with a touch of green for Quirion Dryad.  The deck, though few realize it, was merely a tweak of an even older more obscure deck called Turbo Xerox.  This deck was a mono blue control deck with very few land (17-18 usually), lots of redundant card drawing, tons of free counters, and one or two heavy hitter win conditions.  The Turbo Xerox archetype had long existed as a perrenial T16 deck when the environment had the following elements: cheap, redundant card drawing/manipulation and free counterspells.  The cheap card drawing allowed the deck to run a low land count without fear of being mana screwed.  The free counters allowed the deck to tap out to play threats early and to cast lots of card drawing.  The first run of the deck came in 1.x when Force of Will was still allowed.  The most recent run for Turbo Xerox came in the Summer of 2000 when Adrian Sullivan ran the deck at Nationals, claiming he designed it, when in actuality it was designed by Alan Comer almost two years earlier and then updated by Alan Comer for the 2000 Nationals format right before he left for WotC.  The deck had little in the way of removal and the threats, while large, were often unwieldy to cast even with copious amounts of free counters like Force, Daze, Thwart, and Foil, each of which has seen use in Turbo Xerox.

Gro:  The Turbo Xerox (TX) idea was altered and I believe taken to the next level with the addition of Quirion Dryad to the decklist.  Alan Comer, that lover of low land counts, added Dryad to an all blue deck and viola he had the finisher that TX was missing.  It was quick, easy to cast, and most important a brute on the battlefield given the fact that most of the deck cost U or 1U to cast, if anything at all. Note that Gush became a prominent fixture in both 1.x and Vintage Gro decks.  This is important later on.

Traditional 1.x Gro is best seen in Vintage in the Chapin Gro or Emerald Alice variants.  These deck, however, due to the lack of good removal and the easy access to more colors thanks to the fetchlands have all but fallen out of use.  One important change to note as the deck transitioned into Vintage: the uptick in the number of Misdirections used.  Chapin Gro went so far as to include Divert MD to increase the density of MisD effects.  The sheer power and game swing of MisD'ing an Ancestral or a Hymn was, at the time, too powerful to ingore.  Thus, MisD became a staple of the Vintage Gro deck.  Chapin Gro's weakness to an emerging powerhouse creature deck, TnT led to the next innovation: SuperGro.

SuperGro: The Pros, ever the innovators that they are, pushed the Gro deck even farther very quickly.  Ben Rubin is generally credited with adding White to the deck for Swords, important in the mirror in 1.x and key in Vintage to hold off TnT.  He also added Mystic Enforcer, an excellent finishing card.  The deck because of the low land count also included Winter Orb and Werebear, cards that were quite good in 1.x, but would not survive the transfer to Vintage.  Finally, Rubin and others included Meddling Mage in the deck as another attacker and a counterspell.  Overall SuperGro proved to be the superior version of the deck in 1.x.  The deck's major weakness, instead of lack of spot removal, was susceptibility to non-basic hate.

Many of these changes would carry over into Vintage.  The deck however, was about to be quickly superseded by another, even more powerful version of the deck: GAT.

At this point Gro and its family of decks fell out of use in 1.x because the dual lands were rotated out of the format along with a Gro staple--Force of Will.  Thus from here on the deck is exclusively a Vintage experiment.

GAT:  If SuperGro was the perfection of the 1.x version of Gro, then GAT is the perfection of that deck in Vintage form.  Including the recently unrestricted Berserk and the best creature ever printed, Psychatog, GAT was a brutal and blunt instrument.  GAT could use all of the components of Gro, add black for Duress and Tog and Gush to victory on the second or third turn, all with Force of Will backup.  The deck's major weakness, it's susceptibility to non-basic hate was all but cured by the presence of 4 Gushes in the MD.  Wasteland, Back to Basics, and other hosers all failed to slow the deck down at all.  In fact, casting Gush to save lands was often the final step before a massive Tog attack.  GAT was made possible by the Onslaught fetchlands, which allowed the deck to drop clunky search like Land Grant, and add potent cards like Duress.  The addition of Cunning Wish gave the deck all of its pieces.  Towards the end of the pre-Gush restriction era of GAT, the deck was running Wish to fetch the lone Berserk in the SB.  

GAT/r:  Not really a new deck, but a metagamed version of GAT, this deck was designed to combat the anti GAT decks like STAX and Brought Sui.  The addition of Fire/Ice in the main and Artifact Mutation in the side, meant that GAT could fend off its main enemies.  Fire/Ice could punish Sui's fast creatures and tap Brought Sui's Mazes of Ith, while Artifact Mutation wrecked Smokestack's plans.  These innovations, brought to us by Roland Bode, made GAT/r the final response in a GAT/anti-GAT arms race.  

At this point Gush was restricted and GAT fell from grace.

Hulk Smash:  Since Gush's restriction a more controlling version of the deck came into use.  No longer able to protect its lands and go for the kill all at the same time, GAT players had to grow a brain and play a little control.  This led to the emergence of Hulk Smash.  Long an independent deck developed by JP Meyer and others, Hulk Smash was able to use GAT's best features and add in a bit of solid board control.  Hulk Smash was in for the long haul.

Post Gush GAT:  Given the immense amount of synergy of the cards in the deck, GAT still carries on.  Not the unstoppable monster that it once was a few people like GI and Maxim carry the deck forward innovating after the loss of the deck's most broken card.  Post-Gush GAT is starting to look like a low land count version of Hulk with the addition of Scepter and Future Sight.  I prefer a more traditional GAT/Gro style deck, going with the notion that GAT will always be the aggro deck.  Still GI's success can't be ignored.

Dark Seed:  The latest and most innovating form of GAT, post Gush.  This deck adds white to the traditional Ugb base of GAT for Swords and Seal of Cleansing.  This deck is close to a best of deck like 5cg in the old Standard, running the best of each color's spells, but Maxim has made it work.  It deserves a look.

Current Winning Builds

Kini, 1st, Caceras, 12/21/03, Dark Seed

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Accumulated Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
1 Cunning Wish
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
1 Gush
1 Merchant Scroll
3 Misdirection
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Sleight of Hand
1 Time Walk
1 Fastbond
4 Quirion Dryad
1 Regrowth
1 Mystic Enforcer
2 Psychatog

Lands:
1 Flooded Strand
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
4 Underground Sea

SB:
1 Berserk
2 Comost
1 Energy Flux
2 Maze of Ith
3 Meddling Mage
1 Naturalize
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Powder Keg
1 Sacred Ground
1 Swords to Plowshares

Sergio Marchal, 8th, Caceras, 12/21/03, SuperGro

1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
1 Gush
1 Merchant Scroll
3 Misdirection
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Sleight of Hand
1 Time Walk
4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Quiron Dryad
1 Regrowth
2 Werebear
3 Meddling Mage
1 Balance
1 Disenchant
3 Swords to Plowshares

Lands:
3 Flooded Strand
1 Island
2 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
4 Tropical Island
4 Tundra

SB:
3 Chill
3 Compost
1 Misdirection
2 Naturalize
2 Null Rod
1 Swords to Plowshares
3 Tormod's Crypt

NOTE: There were three Gro type decks in the Top 8 of this event, including two more unusual traditional SuperGro decks.  Check out the standings here:

http://www.morphling.de/coverages/top8decks.php?id=85

Marc Garcia, 4th, Barcelona, 12/27/03, GAT

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Demonic Tutor
3 Duress
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
4 Accumulated Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
2 Cunning Wish
4 Force of Will
1 Future Sight
1 Gush
4 Mana Drain
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Fastbond
4 Quirion Dryad
1 Regrowth
1 Pernicious Deed
2 Psychatog

Lands:
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
4 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea

SB:
1 Berserk
2 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Coffin Purge
1 Diabolic Edict
3 Energy Flux
1 Naturalize
1 Pernicious Deed
3 Stifle

Ben Taraskevich, 2nd, Waterbury, 11/16/03, GAT

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Demonic Tutor
3 Duress
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
4 Accumulated Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
2 Cunning Wish
4 Force of Will
1 Gush
1 Merchant Scroll
2 Misdirection
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Time Walk
4 Quirion Dryad
1 Regrowth
1 Pernicious Deed
2 Psychatog

Lands:
1 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
4 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea

SB:
1 Annul
1 Berserk
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Coffin Purge
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Naturalize
2 Null Rod
1 Pernicious Deed
2 Smother
1 Stifle
1 Zuran Orb

Stephen Houdlette (Grand Inquisitor), 8th, Waterbury, 11/16/03, GAT/Hulk

1 Black Lotus
2 Isochron Scepter
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
4 Accumulated Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
3 Cunning Wish
4 Force of Will
1 Future Sight
1 Gush
4 Mana Drain
2 Misdirection
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Time Walk
3 Quirion Dryad
2 Fire/Ice
2 Psychatog
1 Gorilla Shaman

Lands:
4 Flooded Strand
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island

SB:
1 Berserk
1 Coffin Purge
1 Crumble
1 Fact or Fiction
2 Hydroblast
1 Naturalize
1 Pernicious Deed
2 Pyroblast
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Smother
1 Stifle
2 Tormod's Crypt

Ultima, 1st Place, MoloDet's Lotus Tournament, 3/14/04, GAT '04

3 Psychatogs
4 Quirion Dryad
3 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Misdirection
1 Time Walk
1 Yawg Will
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Fastbond
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Gush
2 Cunning Wish
2 Deep Analysis
3 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
5 Moxen

Lands:
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
2 Island

SB:

1 Pern Deed
1 Berserk
1 Oxidize
1 Smother
1 Echoing Decay (Tech- Only weapon 3-color GAT has for mult. welders)
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Stifle
1 Coffin Purge
2 Naturalize
2 Ground Seal- (the pseudo-Damping Matrix that doesn't stop your Tog)
3 Duress

Here is his report: http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15853&highlight=

Sam Antill, 2nd, Hadley, 3/6/04, Dryadhate.dec

1 Black Lotus
3 Damping Matrix
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
4 Accumulated Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
2 Cunning Wish
1 Deep Analysis
4 Force of Will
2 Future Sight
1 Gush
4 Mana Drain
2 Mana Leak
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Fastbond
4 Quiron Dryad
1 Regrowth

Lands:

1 Forest
5 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
4 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island

SB:

1 Berserk
1 Capsize
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Firestorm
3 Ground Seal
1 Naturalize
1 Oxidize
1 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Seedtime
2 Stifle

My List

NOTE: I am posting my list, not as an end all, be all, but as an example and because I want some tips (this is a selfish post).  I based it off Ben's Waterbury deck with a few tweaks of my own.

Counters:
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Duress

Card Drawing:
4 AK
4 Brainstorm

Creatures:
4 Quirion Dryad
2 Psychatog

Tutors/Utility:
2 Cunning Wish
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Regrowth
2 Pernicious Deed

Broken Stuff:
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Timewalk
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Gush

Mana/Land:
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring
Library
1 Strip Mine
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
4 Underground Sea
4 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Swamp
City of Brass

SB:
1 Berserk
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Smother
2 Naturalize
1 Oxidize
2 Coffin Purge
3 Null Rod
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Vendetta

EDIT: 1/30/04 Decklist updates in BOLD

Problems

GAT has become, in my mind the biggest loser in the post Dragon, LD kick.  Stifle is not this deck's friend.  The high number of Wastelands also hurt.  I have had serious difficulty getting enough mana in play.  The Stifles in the main have gone from stopping opponent's fetches to stopping their Wastelands.  I have often wished I had a Teferi's Response in my hand instead.  This is a SERIOUS problem.  I dropped the LoA for a Sol Ring to get some stability in the deck.  I am seriously considering dropping 1 fetch (Flooded Plains) for another basic land, probably an island or forest.

The deck also has some weakness due to the lack of spot removal.  Deed is amazing but I would like something more.  I also do not like the high number of tutors in the deck, but this is unavoidable given the deck's dependence on a number of cards (Deed, Wish, Tog).  I love the Mind Twist, but sometimes it just does nothing.  I am seriously considering swapping it for 1 Future Sight.

Finally, Mana Drains, while good have hurt me more than I want to think about.  Has anyone tried the deck with Counterspell and had good results, besides Ben at Waterbury?

Thanks for looking and posting.

[Nameless]

For refrence:

//NAME: GAT
// Black:
        1 Demonic Tutor
        3 Duress
        1 Yawgmoth's Will
// Blue:
        1 Ancestral Recall
        4 Accumulated Knowledge
        4 Brainstorm
        3 Counterspell
        3 Cunning Wish
        4 Force of Will
        1 Gush
        3 Misdirection
        4 Sleight of Hand
        1 Time Walk
// Green:
        4 Quirion Dryad
        1 Regrowth
// Multicolor:
        3 Psychatog
// Mana Sources:
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Chrome Mox
        2 Island
        1 Mox Emerald
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Sapphire
        4 Polluted Delta
        4 Tropical Island
        4 Underground Sea
SB:  1 Berserk
SB:  1 Coffin Purge
SB:  1 Intuition
SB:  3 Naturalize
SB:  2 Pernicious Deed
SB:  3 Smother
SB:  3 Stifle
SB:  1 Vampiric Tutor

This is what I use to a pretty good measure of success.  I'd rather have my Stifles in the SB and bring them in game 2 if I really need them, otherwise I stick with what I've got...  One of my favorite SB cards though is Intuition, because it's one of those cards that I never want to see when I'm rolling, but that works great when your deck is starting to stall.

You'll notice the use of only 1 real Tutor to speak of, and it's the best.  I don't like using the rest, as I'd rather have either a counter or another card drawing spell in that slot.

I also play fewer land then you, but I take advantage of Chrome Mox.  I think you can't afford to overlook this card, especially if you're having problems with Wasteland.  You've got too many ways to keep your hand full to worry about pitching a single card.  Well, that and it makes getting a 1st turn Accumulate, Counter, or Dryad a lot easier, too.  By far my favorite aspect of it though, is that it helps to start the game with the ever-so-devistating Land/Mox/Duress/Ancestral start.  The only hard part about that opening IS the Ancestral.  I've never lost a game when I opened like that.  Of course, I've sometimes had to literally kill my opponent, which gets messy, but I'll be damned if I'm going to loose and mess up that run...  I wonder how many people actually read that line.  I wonder how many people think I'm kidding...  Oh well, probably nobody.

This is my 'other' fun deck though, so what I use isn't exactly the result of hundreds of hours of testing.  It's actually from the tweaks I made beating people over the face when I didn't feel like using pure Aggro or Keeper.  In other words, take this with a grain of salt; or a bucket of salt if you want, hell I don't care, what you do with your salt is your own buisness pal, and I'd thank you to not bring me into it.

[Ric_Flair]

In my latest, still 'tarded move I have changed the mana base, and have had a good deal of success.  I swapped 1 Flooded Strand for an additional Island and 1 Tropical Island for a Swamp.  Naturally this has helped a good deal.  And yes I am a moron for not doing this sooner.  

Also if anyone has the decklist from the Top 8 at Waterbury it would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

[DavidHernandez]

As you requested:

Waterbury Top 8 January 17 2004

SCOTT LIMOGINES

1 Gush
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Quirion Dryad
2 Psychatog
4 Mana Drain
4 Brainstorm
1 Mind Twist
2 Duress
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Cunning Wish
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
1 Merchant Scroll

5 Moxen
4 Island
1 Black Lotus
1 Strip Mine
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea

SB:
2 Diabolic Edict
3 Naturalize
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Berserk
4 Tormod's Crypt
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Fact or Fiction

Also note that, like Ben Taraskevich, 2nd, Waterbury, 11/16/03, GAT, this deck has NO INTUITIONS.  I'm telling you all, you don't need the Intuitions in GAT. I say this because the 2 decks that finished 1st (Waterbury) and 2nd (see previous post at the beginning of this thread) didn't run them.  This tells me that there were 2 stronger, more resilient cards for the main deck.

It also uses Gush in the main, which i think is the best place for Gush (not in the sideboard).  

Vamp Tutor in the main surpised me--i would have sideboarded it as a Wish target, and i would have run 1 Pernicious Deed in the main instead.

--Dave.

[Grand Inquisitor]

I still don't have my final thoughts on GAT ready yet, but I was curious what people consider to be GAT's most difficult matchups.

This has been my experience:

Favorable:
Keeper
Landstill
Mono-U, Urphid
-Since your draw spells are cheap, these decks can't slow you down enough, and GAT topdecks much better.

TPS
-Xantid is a serious threat, but its just not as fast as Long

Even:
neo-Stompy
-Often depends on how quickly you can find and make use of your broken-ness.  Having an early creature really helps.

Mask
Dragon
-GAT needs to contain them long enough to get a big dryad going, and usually can

Hulk
-whoever casts the first big AK usually wins.  however, an early dryad can be game if they can't find a tog

Unfavorable:
WMUD
-everything in their deck hates you, its just a matter of how fast they start throwing it at you

Fish
-maybe i'm overestimating this one, but their LD can be a kick in the pants

Suicide
-same as fish, but without blue draw power, and bigger creatures

Thoughts?[/i]

[Ric_Flair]

I would agree with most of that list, but the Landstill part.  Jeff (Samite Healer) and I played a few games and he wupped my ass.  I was still getting used to the deck, and Jeff is quite a good player, but still I think this matchup, especially with the deck's landlight configuration is not a good one.

I know these have been covered elsewhere, but I thought that centralizing the discussion might be helpful.

Opinions on the following:

Sol Ring in the Main

Library in the Main

Oxidize in the Side replacing Naturalize

Oxidize in the Side supplementing Naturalize

2-3 Island Land Config

3 Trops

3 v. 4 Dryads

Any room for Wastelands?

Stifle v. MisD Main

Xantid Swarm in the Side

Mind Twist in the Main

Duress config (2 v. 3)

Mass card drawer in the Side (ie Gush or FoF)

Regrowth or no

And the most controversial:  Mana Drain swapped for Counterspell


I like Sol Ring in the deck.  I am also currently running a Library, but if I cut a land it will be this one.  Too many pitch effects to make it work.  I think the optimal configuration for the side might be 2 Oxidize and 1 Naturalize.  I personally love running 3 Islands and 1 Swamp, but I hate going down to 3 Trops.  I might drop the Library in favor of a 4th Trop.  We'll see.  Given the amount of draw in the deck, I can see why 3 Dryads work, but I really like having one in my opening hand.  I usually think of it this way:  if I want something in opening hand I run 4, if I only want to guarantee seeing it during the game, I run 3.  Thus I run 4 Dryads.  I cannot figure out how to squeeze in Wastelands, though they are mighty tempting right now.  In the board, maybe.  This deck has come to include so many bombs that I love Xantid Swarm in the Side to bust out Dryads, Togs, and Wills.  Mind Twist is included in the deck, so it works well with that too.  Too many bombs and backbreakers not to include Swarm.  I have 3 Duress for the same reason I have 4 Dryads.  I run one mass card drawer in the Side (FoF) in case I get stuck, which can happen sometimes.  Regrowth seems good, but I have never had room.  If someone makes a compelling case for it I could imagine adding it for CRAZY Timewalk and Will plays.  Last but not least, I like Mana Drain, I do, but I take so much damage from it.  This deck runs too many low cc stuff.  Still, dogma has prevented me from making the swap.

[DavidHernandez]

hmm.  Good questions.  Here is how i see it:

Sol Ring in the Main: No. It's hard enough to pull the mana you need (in terms of color), especially if you run a Library (see below).  You're not running any big casting cost spells, except **maybe** for a big Mind Twist.

Library in the Main: Yes.  Always good, especially in a control matchup.

Oxidize in the Side replacing Naturalize: Havent tried this.

Oxidize in the Side supplementing Naturalize: Havent tried this.

2-3 Island Land Config: I was running 2, but wanted to run more.  I think Scott's mana base is close to what i will do in the future. No Sol Ring, and run 3 Basic Islands and 4 Trops.

3 Trops: No. Run 4. I hate not having the color i need.

3 v. 4 Dryads: Run 4. Too good and too cheap.  Get one early and start playing control = you win.

Any room for Wastelands? No.  In my testing, i find that the mana base is fragile enough.  Wastelands eat valuable slots.  Only the lone Strip Mine has a place here imo, because it kills any land.

Stifle v. MisD Main: MisD main x2, and Stifle in the Sideboard as a Wish target.  MisD is underrated.

Xantid Swarm in the Side: Interesting.  Havent tried this.  Anyone out there who can report on this?

Mind Twist in the Main: Yes. Very strong in this deck.

Duress config (2 v. 3): I like 3, but i think the meta calls for 2 (a more controllish game), and that is how i run it now.

Mass card drawer in the Side (ie Gush or FoF): Gush belongs in the main, even though you can only run 1.  The GAT builds that are actually winning run it in the main.  I like FoF in the main, but don't have room, so i put it in the side.

Regrowth or no: I like Regrowth, but can't find room for it, so No.

And the most controversial: Mana Drain swapped for Counterspell: COUNTERSPELL.  I'm sick of burning.  There aren't enough sinks in the deck to save yourself from the burn.

Instead of Wastelands, maybe a configuration that runs more islands and uses Back to Basics in the Sideboard would work.

dave

[Ric_Flair]

Logic about Xantid Swarm:

It is funny to this about this deck as essentially a deck of bombs.  The original Gro decks were synergy decks.  GAT still has that synergy, but it also has some of the best spells in the game.  GAT is now a deck of bombs, kinda like the new Stompy decks.  

da Bombs:

Dryad (4)
Tog (2)
Will (1)
Twist (1)
Cunning Wish (it fetchs removal or da sideboard bomb: Berserk) (2)
Berserk (1)
Walk (1)
Ancestral (1)
Deed (1)
Library (1)
Lotus (1)

add to this the number of cards used to fetch bombs:

Vamp Tutor
Mystical Tutor
Demonic Tutor
Merchant Scroll

and the card that becomes a bomb:

AK (4)

and the total is 24.  Xantid Swarm lets you cast all of these.  Note that how few of the bombs are instants (10).  I think that Swarms just make this deck win games it wouldn't otherwise.

I should also say that while some of these cards are always bombs regardless of the deck, this deck more so than any other deck, except for the Stompy deck I would guess, having never played it, NEEDS these cards to win.  Keeper can win a whole host of ways.  So to with MUD, Madness, and Tog.  I guess this speaks to the truly combo nature of this deck.  Some of these spells are MUST PLAYS.  Tog is different because it can stay in the game longer.  This deck just has to cast one of these spells and win.  So Swarm is muy bueno.

[Ric_Flair]

I played against Jacob's Stompy deck (1 game, not even a match), a wMUD deck with Mindslaver, a few random Sui decks, and one Sligh deck this weekend at the Prerelease.  

I must say that the Stompy deck is awesome.  I won but then again I got a good Will and we only played one game so this was not very representative.

I played one match against wMUD.  I won the first game and lost the next two.  I am now sure that running 2 Island and 1 Swamp Main is a good idea.  I lost to this deck because of a ridiculous opening hand Game 2 that consisted of Double Spheres.  2 Spheres, Lotus, Mountain, Sol Ring.  Sac Lotus, tap Mountain, cast Sol Ring, Sphere 1, tap Sol Ring and use one floating, Sphere Two.  Game OVER.  The second game was much better.  My opponent was something a 'tard.  He played two of my turns and did NOTHING.  I had a Tog on the table and he "let" me keep my hand and 'yard.   HELLO.  Had the Slaver not been paired up with a Welder and me without counters I would have certainly won.  

I then talked to the guy about Slavery and he would have none of it.  His deck was built on "10 years of experience," which is ironic given how AWFUL he played.  The sheer power of Mishra's Workshop and Welder were the only reasons he won.  I am not saying this as a sore loser.  It was just playtesting.  I then brought up the fact that in Mud Mana Crypt > off color Moxen.  He was so sure I was wrong.  People like this make me want to steal cards.  Someone this stupid should not have 4 Workshops.  I am sure that someone says the same thing about me, but GOD was this guy a huge dickhead.

I then played a newbie with Sui.  He was thrilled to get my Beta Sinkhole (which I got with an Oblivion Stone) because it finished his deck.  Sweet booty was had by me.  His TRADE BINDER WAS MINE.  BWAHHAHAH.   Anyway, the game was typical Sui.  Slam your hand, your mana and so on.  Fortunately I had swapped the Stifles out for MisDs and added some basics.  When I first played the Island he grimmaced.  Then when I MisDed the Sinkhole he was shocked.  "I thought those were no longer used" he said.  Maybe it is just the scrubby meta at the places I play, but I really like the MisDs.  FoW 5 and 6.  I won every game because my Wills were better than his.  Will with a Negator in the yard is not as good as Will with Walk and Ancestral in the 'yard.

Sligh was much harder than I thought it would be.  It was not FCG or anything new.  Just regular old Sligh.  It was good matchup that I ended up winning.  Good stuff.  

Now I need to play in an tourney that doesn't start at 3 pm.  

Results of the skant testing: Up the basic land count, it will help TONS.

[Rico Suave]

Alright, well I've been toying around with this deck lately, and I wanted to contribute to this.  Before going on, I should say that I play this deck aggressively, because I feel that is the way this deck wins.

I don't think LoA fits.  It is at it's best against the deck's already strong matches, and is weak against the deck's weak matches.  The fact that the deck is not always able to keep 7 cards in  hand coupled with the fact it wants as much mana as possible early game leads me to believe it isn't going to pull it's weight.  I could be wrong on this one.  I don't think it's a bad card in the SB, though.

Currently I run all the off-color Moxen, but I'm not sure about them.  They help with AK's, first turn Dryads, and other whatnot but they can also lead to color screw.  I haven't lost many games directly because of them, but they are sometimes an inconvenience.  Sol Ring is also in the same boat, although it doesn't produce first turn Dryads, nor do I run it.

I also run 3 Islands, which are quite good.

I like first turn Dryads.  I like them a lot, which is why I run 4.  If you draw 2 Dryads, you can toss extra ones back via Brainstorm, or at the very least you have another threat.  

I think Misdirection is much better than Stifle maindeck, or even in the sideboard.  Mis-D makes the deck that much better at it's primary strategy, not to mention it is FoW's 5-6.  Stifle doesn't protect Dryad from removal, nor does it turn otherwise powerful cards like Ancestral and Mind Twist against their owners.  

I really like Xantid Swarm in the SB.  It quite simply wrecks a lot of control decks.

I'm not sure about Mind Twist in the maindeck, because there's also the question of whether Duress or Mind Twist is better.  My gut says Mind Twist, although I don't run Twist or a 3rd Duress.  

I also think Gush should be maindeck.  Cunning Wish is too busy with other things to find Gush, and FoF is a good enough Wish target anyway.

I would like Regrowth, but there's not enough room.

I also wanted to question Vampiric Tutor maindeck.  Right now it's in my SB, but if I had a 61st slot it would be Vamp.  At the least it finds Will, Ancestral, and Time Walk.  It also makes the lone Strip Mine that much better.

I've seen several decks running Pernicious Deed, but personally I prefer a 3rd Tog.  They perform similar functions against aggro, although Tog is a threat and an answer, as opposed to just an answer.

Lastly, I use Mana Drain.  Counterspell just doesn't produce nearly the same game-breaking tempo advantage that Drain does.  I have won too many games by Draining into Will to drop it now.  I rarely have problems burning, and I don't even run the big sinks that many others run.  If two cards are both equally capable of the slot, it's usually better to go with the more powerful card, in my opinion.

[Dante]

I think Deed is better in a deck like Hulk with only the 3-ish Togs (no Dryads) because there's more incentive to blow up the board (and less chance of damaging your position) and follow, rather than grow a Dryad.  The dryads definitely require a more aggressive play....

[Ric_Flair]

As far as Deed is concerned, there are just some times when you MUST have a Deed.  It is certainly riskier here than in Hulk, but it is, in my mind, a necessity.  Maybe when I get better at playing the deck I will ween myself of crutch that is Deed, but until then I LOVE IT.

So I have been swapping cards in and out the deck a lot recently.  I have even taken to an old Legend tactic--the alternate sideboard.  That is, those cards that are just slightly not good enough to use all the time.  These cards are often metagame choices and sometimes they are things that would certainly be in a sideboard if I know a particular deck will show up.  So my question is this: what cards are in your alternate sideboard?

Here are the cards that made my A SB, as of last night (thanks who ever for the App testing):

1 Stifle
2 Annul
3 Winter Orb
2 Emerald Charm
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Misdirection
4 Counterspell
1 Regrowth
1 Recoil (SWEET, thanks to PTW's Fro thread)
1 Smother
1 Perish

Real SB:
1 Berserk
1 Oxidize
1 FoF
2 Naturalize
1 BEB
2 Null Rod
2 Smother
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Coffin Purge

[Bram]

I've only recently had my interest in this deck rekindled.

DavidHernandez: I think we're on the same wavelength regarding card choices. I have one question, though. You all seem to have dismissed the possibility of Daze. I realise it's less good now we don't run Fastbond anymore, but it's still a nice trick. How about the good old 2 Daze / 2 Counterspell config instead of 4 Mana Drains?

[DavidHernandez]

Hi Bram,

Daze would work fine too, i think.  Several of the high finishing GAT builds have used it (running 4 of them).

This is a personal choice on my part, because i hate to see Daze come up in the late game (even though i could 'pitch it to force of will').  

If I were going to run it, i think i would go with 4, instead of 2 Daze + 2 Counterspells, just so that i could be reasonably sure of pulling on of them in my opening hand.  It's a great surprise in the early game, and can stop very key plays.

Dave.

[JACO]

Hi Bram,

Daze would work fine too, i think.  Several of the high finishing GAT builds have used it (running 4 of them).

This is a personal choice on my part, because i hate to see Daze come up in the late game (even though i could 'pitch it to force of will').  

If I were going to run it, i think i would go with 4, instead of 2 Daze + 2 Counterspells, just so that i could be reasonably sure of pulling on of them in my opening hand.  It's a great surprise in the early game, and can stop very key plays.

Dave.

I think part of the reason you DON'T want to run 4 Daze (aside from drawing them late in the game when they suck), is the fact that not only do you want to counter a spell without paying mana some times, but you want to have your oppononent play around Daze, and you don't need 4 copies to do it. Just the threat of it in your deck (even just 1 or 2) will force people to play against you differently. I used to see this very frequently when some of the people running the old version of GAT (pre-Gush restriction) ran 2 Daze main (for example, DAT who Top-8'd at the huge CrazyCon a year and a half ago). Not only did I play against him (DAT) differently, so did damn near everyone else after he busted out one early in a game. It's the threat of having one, kind of like when your opponent has UU open for that possible Mana Drain they might have in hand.

[DavidHernandez]

Jaco:  your reasoning is exactly the line i used when i would test Daze.  But if you look at the GAT decks that actually place in the TOP 8 or above, you will see that IF they run Daze, THEN they are running 4 copies.  

None of the top 8 or better finishers (who used Daze) run less than 4.  To me, that's significant.  They must be countering very early threats, and are getting Daze in hand the same way that a deck running 4 Duress does.

Either way, my personal preference at this point is 4 Counterspell (over Mana Drain), and 0 Daze.  Based on other peoples' high finishes, if i were ever to run Daze i would run 4 because that's what worked.

btw, i'm sending you a pm with my contact info so we can get playtest.

dave.

[Ric_Flair]

Recent testing has shown that the following are problems:

Root Maze in O. Stompy

Fish

Has anyone experienced similar problems?  If so how does the deck change to beat these threats?  Any play advice or card selections I am missing?

BTW, this weekend I got a second turn kill.  It was very sweet.  Thinking back on it I would venture a guess and say that it was one of the best POSSIBLE hands for the deck, including Lotus, Will, Walk, and Ancestral in the first few draws.  My opponent had a tapped land in play (a comes into play tapped land, nonetheless).  It was so SWEET.  I love broken cards.  

[DavidHernandez]

I have seen that Fish (specifically Gay/r) can be an issue.  It runs creatures and cards that give it tremendous tempo, mana, and card advantage.

Take Cloud of Faeries for example.  The Gay/r player drops a Faerie Conclave on turn one and passes the turn while holding a Force of Will, a Misdirection, and some other broken stuff.

On turn two, they drop a land and a Cloud of Faeries, then untap their land, and play a second Cloud of Faeries and a Curiosity (or they drop a Standstill).  Their creatures have evasion (flight or direct damage).

The whole deck tends to be explosive.  By turn 3, you are facing 3 flying creatures, 5 points of damage, and they will be drawing a card from Curiosity.  Make it turn 2 if they dropped a Sapphire in that time frame and played Time Walk.

Grim Lavamancers and Razorfin Hunters are awesome removal, clearing the way for Curiosity to give the opponent answers.  

This doesn't even take into consideration the fact that a Standstill will be on the table in any of the above situations, and your own Ancestral will be a target for Misdirection.

So, without a Red splash, how do you answer these threats?  I don't think that Scepters are an answer, because Gay/r and Fish run 3 main deck Null Rods, along with the Counters to protect them.  In fact, if you are running all of the off color Moxen, you're going to be hurting from those Null Rods (Rods are a pet peeve of mine, because i always saw so many of them in our area).  I mention Scepter in case anyone was thinking of putting Scepters in the deck with Fire/Ice in the Side.

With the loss of Gush, i don't see a Red splash as an option.

Powder Kegs are a good response to Gay/r and Fish, but you will have to cast it with the ability to counter a Null Rod.

If we could support it's cost, Contagion could be an option.  However, i dont think this will work.  BB in the cost seems prohibitive, and you wont have enough black in the deck to support the alternate casting cost.

So, my answer to Gay/r would be Dry Spell.  At 1B, this will clear the board of most weenie decks, including Gay/r and Fish.  It will also hose most Sligh decks.  I think 3 or 4 in the SB are worth testing.  If it were an Instant, it would be broken.  As it stands, it gets around Null Rod, clears the board, and deals damage to the opponent.

Kaervek's Hex may be another option, but i dont think it's as good as Dry Spell.  Sickening Dreams also has potential, but is card disadvantage. If you don't mind the extra 1 in the cc, you can use Wail of the Nim, which is an Instant.

--Dave.

[Ric_Flair]

So three weeks of playtesting have shown me that the deck, as it is currently built, while good, is not up to snuff against many of the aggro decks out there.  

Vs.  Fish:

The problem has already been addressed by Dave.  I am looking for some Dry Spells to test as we speak.  Ugh.  Homelands commons...where are you.

Fish is a problem because it basically a mono colored version of GAT.  It runs lots of creatures instead of lots of card drawing.  Its creatures, individually are clearly worse, but as a whole, I think they are more potent than people realize.  Cloud of Faeries into Standstill is an amazing turn 2 play.  

The solutions:  Dry Spell in SB, additional Deeds to the MD and SB.  More aggressive playing.

Vs. Aggro Workshop:

Whether it is against Broodstarrunner.dec or other various Workshop aggro decks GAT simply has a hard time running them.  A first turn Juggernaut is worlds of problems for this deck.  A Greaved Welder is even worse.  With little to no removal MD how can GAT compete?

The solutions:  3 Null Rod SB, 2 Naturalize, 1 Oxidize, 3 Smother (or 2 Smother/1 Terror), and 1 BEB SB.  That is a lot of hate for Welder Workshop aggro, but is it enough?  Without the access to the Artifact Mutation, because of the removal of Red, how can GAT put the clamp on this match?  I am not sure.  I added a 2nd Deed main deck, but I am still not sure this is enough.  I am still seriously considering going the Dark Seed route and add White for Balance, Seal of Cleansing, and STP MD.  I will try it out and report back.

Vs.  Mono-Green Aggro:

Do people realize how much of a beating Root Maze is?  It is a dangerous, dangerous spell for this deck.  Tapping lands and artifacts essentially cuts off the mana for a deck that needs alot of mana all the time.

The solutions:  Again the extra Deed helps.  But the Dark Seed variation seems to have some promise.

Other issues:

I have been experiencing a huge drought in terms of colored mana.  This deck needs lots of colored mana, right away and I can't seem to draw any.  I have a Sol Ring in the deck, thinking that the problem was mana in general, and that did not work.  I am going to experiment with Chrome Mox to see if I can fix the problem.  The deck has so much redudancy (ie, lots of four ofs) that I think that I can get away with the Chrome Mox.  

Any thoughts on any of these issues?  Is it possible that Super Gro is better than GAT right now, due to the high number of creature decks?  Or is Dark Seed the route this deck needs to take to be successful?

[Ric_Flair]

Note to board:

I was thinking about the problems I have been facing and I realized that they were all creature based problems.  Here is the beginning of a potential solution:

[card] Vendetta [/card]

The black STP.  I am not sure how it will work, where it will go, or how many, but I am going to test it out.  Report back.

Note: Mod this was posted separately on purpose.  I thought of this much later in the day and came back to the thread.  Merge it if you want or if it will help.

[Grand Inquisitor]

@Ric,

In light of the recent problems you've been facing, I wanted to offer that I've been playing a four-color version of GAT very similar to what I played in Waterbury:

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Deep Analysis
1 Future Sight
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm

1 Misdirection
2 Stifle
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain

1 Mystical Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
3 Cunning Wish

1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Time Walk
2 Fire/Ice
2 Isochron Scepter

2 Quirion Dryad  
2 Psychatog

Lands:
1 Strip Mine
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Island
1 Flooded Strand
2 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic
3 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
7 Solomox

SB:
1 Berserk
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Terminate

1 Naturalize
1 Artifact Mutation
1 Rack and Ruin

1 Coffin Purge
2 Tormod's Crypt

2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Dwarven Miner


I reverted back to this sort of build in spite of lots of non-basic hate because of the rise of Aggro and Workshop decks post-January.  This build does a much better job identifying itself as the control deck, and packs lots of bullets against workshop.

One of the most obvious departues is not running duress (which I'm prone to) since it requires you to fetch Seas early.  This deck has a very flexible plan of attack.  It can play the quick dryad game, it can go big draw and try to win with Tog, or it can sit back almost like Keeper, and just resolve large draw spells, while surgically removing problems.  This flexibility makes duress a liability since you can't always afford to search out two secondary colors.


I'll explain the few changes from the Waterbury build:

Maindeck,

Deep Analysis may look lonely, but its a great Mystical Tutor target to break open control matchups, and can also soak up a big mana drain.  I still feel there is no reason to include intuition in this sort of build.  There are so many draw spells that you shouldn't have to rely on this psuedo ancestral with AK.

Stifle has been excellent.  Before, when I was testing 4-c GAT with white, I realized that the only reason I was running white is Swords to Plowshares.  Next I realized the only reason I was running Swords was to combat Dragon.  Stifle fits the same role, but also negates Stompy madness tricks, slaver's abilty, prison artifact triggers, and most of all, protects your mana base.  It also takes care of decree of justice, but the Keeper matchup is very favorable.

Not running Gush is completely intentional in that Stifle is a far superior tool at protecting lands, Fact or Fiction is a much better Wish  target, and I rarely want to afford the tempo lost of its ACC.  I realize Gush is a choice card in aggressive GAT builds, but this deck is a different animal.

Sideboard,

1 Berserk

-Standard 'combo' kill

1 Vampiric Tutor

-Necessary tutoring.  I prefered Lim Dul's Vault, but I don't need another way for Slaver to kill me.

1 Fact or Fiction

-Best option for draw target.  With this and REB to wish for, the control matchup improves greatly

1 Blue Elemental Blast

-Standard answer to Welder, Bloodmoon & Pyrostatic Pillar.  Can surprise to kill Dragon sometimes

1 Terminate

-I was waffling between smother and Diabolic Edict when I realised that this was a far superior option.  With TnT & Stompy sporting expensive creatures, this is simply the best way to go.  With the deck featuring scepters, this becomes much easier to cast.

1 Naturalize
1 Artifact Mutation
1 Rack and Ruin

I wanted to have a lot of options against Workshop decks.  I miss having a 1cc removal spell, but artifact mutation is just so crucial to surviving a smokestack.  This makes the choice between Oxidize and Rack and Ruin.  It wasn't that hard of a decision.  A chalice for 2 is what hurts the most.  If they chalice for 3, then I can still win with dryads.  Games 2&3 I plan on sideboarding in the naturalize and mutation so that I can always wish for R&R.

1 Coffin Purge
2 Tormod's Crypt

This is pretty standard Dragon hate.  I used to run more Purges, but with them maindecking Xantid Swarm, Crypts make more sense.

2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Dwarven Miner

This is my new suite against control.  Dwarven Miner has been great.  I also bring him in against Dragon, and I'm going to test him against workshop.  In the control matchup he's more valuable against Hulk (which can't afford to use AKs), than Keeper (which has plenty of removal anyway).  He's also a beating against landstill and fish.



At this stage, I feel this is the most evolved version of control GAT.  It improves many of our worst matchups, and keeps our favorable matches in place (which the 4-c white did not).  There are still plenty of things I'd like to test more against (stompy & landstill especially), and it may not fit the more aggressive players on this site, but hopefully some of you get to test it.  I'm interested in hearing your feedback.[/quote]

[Ric_Flair]

Lots of playtesting since I last posted.  I have more experience with the deck and I can now make a few conclusions I would not have made earlier.  

First, Mana Drain is huge in this deck. While initially I took a lot of damage from Drain mana, I have more skill playing the deck and this has led to much less burn.  Occassionally I will get hit with a huge amount of mana, but that is rare now.  They are permanently in the deck, insofar as anything is permanent in this deck.  

Second, Deed is such a bomb, such a mistake eraser that 2 MD and 1 SB are required, in my opinion.  The ability to lock people down with Deed and to respond quickly to Welders is a huge plus.  Given the high presence of artifacts in the format right now, I think the Deed count needs to be very high.

Third, this deck is quite forgiving.  I think this is its biggest plus over Tog.  While Tog is probably a stronger deck in the hands of a highly skilled player, in the hands of a semi skilled player, like myself, I would prefer GAT to Tog because of the high number of redundacies and the Dryads.  In other words, Tog can combo out or control the game probably better than GAT can, but GAT has another more frequent, more brainless road to victory in Dryad.  I so rarely kill someone with the Tog.  Dryad is almost always the way I win.  The more experience I get with the deck the more I realize that is this a Dryad based deck with Tog as backup, not the other way around.  It is really surprising how so few cards can change the entire tone of the deck.  

Fourth, Intution is not needed.  I have played a number of games against aggro and prison decks recently and I am fairly certain that Intuition is only viable in the control matchup and even then it is not that good.  I would far prefer a Regrowth to an Intution in this deck right now.

Fifth, given the amount of nb-hate floating around, I really like the three color version of this deck.  I have tried the 4 color versions with both red and white and I like 3 colors.  Upping the number of Deeds MD allows for you to cut a color and stabilize the mana base great deal.

Sixth, with the fall in Sligh and Sui black, I have gone to a 4 Duress, zero MisD configuration.  If I played in an aggro environment I would probably consider something else, but right now with the high number of artifacts, 4 Duress is good.  Furthermoe, it allows for a more modular sideboard versus aggro.  Minus 4 Duress for 2 Smother, 1 Deed, 1 Vendetta.  

Seventh, this deck is mana hungry.  A Sol Ring and 1 City of Brass go a great distance is shoring up the mana problems.  DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT try Chrome Mox.  It is terrible.  I can think of two games I lost solely because of Chrome Mox.  BARF.

A final note:  when designing this deck, its sideboard, and playing it, I think it is very helpful to stay as far away from a HulkSmash mentality as possible.  Playing to this deck's strengths and its goals will invariably lead to more success.  The closer I got to Hulk the more the deck played like a bad Hulk deck.  The further I got away from Hulk the better the deck did.  Remember, this is a Dryad based deck with Tog as backup.  The major difference is this deck wins by casting lots of spells, whereas Tog wins by drawing lots of cards.  I am not sure, but I think Steve made that distinction.  Either way, it is true.  Keeping this in mind will make the deck that much better.

That is it for my observations.  GI and Ultima are working on a GAT primer, so we should all be on the lookout for it.

[Matt]

Second, Deed is such a bomb, such a mistake eraser that 2 MD and 1 SB are required, in my opinion. The ability to lock people down with Deed and to respond quickly to Welders is a huge plus. Given the high presence of artifacts in the format right now, I think the Deed count needs to be very high.

Told you!

Re: Dryad deck with Tog backup, what is your current creature base? 4/2, Dryad/Tog?

[Ric_Flair]

Good call Matt.  Deed is definitely at least a 2 of MD.  And yes, I am running 4 Dryads and 2 Togs.

[DavidHernandez]

Here is Ultima's build (and report) where he won the Lotus on Saturday:

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15853&highlight=

For the lazy, here is the list:

GAT 04 (aggro-combo style)

3 Psychatogs
4 Quirion Dryad

3 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Misdirection

1 Time Walk
1 Yawg Will
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Fastbond

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Gush
2 Cunning Wish
2 Deep Analysis
3 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Brainstorm

1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
5 Moxen
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
2 Island

SB

1 Pern Deed
1 Berserk
1 Oxidize
1 Smother
1 Echoing Decay (Tech- Only weapon 3-color GAT has for mult. welders)
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Stifle
1 Coffin Purge
2 Naturalize
2 Ground Seal- (the pseudo-Damping Matrix that doesn't stop your Tog)
3 Duress

Note the four Misdirections. TOLD YOU SO...  I love that card!

2 Deep Analysis and...3 Thirst for Knowledge.  Interesting choice!  This would be fantastic against decks running AK's since they cant take advantage of it.  

In the Sideboard, I think I would still run Dry Spell over Echoing Decay.

Fastbond without Future Sight...this is questionable to me, but it's difficult to argue with a guy who won a Lotus with it...

I've been saying this for months now...Misdirection-is-underrated.

Dave.

[Dr. Sylvan]

In the Sideboard, I think I would still run Dry Spell over Echoing Decay.

[card]Dry Spell[/card] is a Sorcery.

I am very perplexed by the three Mana Drains in Ultima's build. Also, four Misd's is so much pressure on your supply of blue cards that I've never liked it. But as you said, it's hard to argue with a winner.

[DavidHernandez]

I know that Dry Spell is a Sorcery.  See my post on the top of this page. I go over several options and include my reasoning.

I think MisD works very well in GaT (and probably in Hulk) because of the amount of draw you have available.  

If you could play 8 FoW, would you?  I would.

While I recognize that MisD is not FoW, it's the closest thing you will find.  It will act, in almost every case, exactly like a FoW.  The downside is that you may not be able to counter something.  The upside is that you may turn a counter on itself, or steal an Ancestral, or turn a game breaking spell back on your opponent.  And you don't lose a life point...

Dave.

[Rico Suave]

I think the only reason 4 Mis-D pulled their weight is because of what he played in the tourney.  He played suicide, Fish, and a bunch of Tog decks.  If I knew I was going to play against that all day, I would also play Mis-D.

In other areas, there are Workshops, combo decks, and aggro decks.  Mis-D is not too stellar against Trinisphere, Slaver, Welder, Thirst for Knowledge, Tendrils, Animate Dead, Survival of the Fittest, Root Maze, etc.

[DavidHernandez]

I disagree.

As I recall, the metagame on the East Coast has a showing of ~25% Keeper, plus all of the Tog builds.  Dr. Sylvan might know for sure (help me here Phil), but my bet would be that there is about a 50% chance (or higher) that a player will face Keeper AND Tog and/or Fish in 4 rounds of Swiss.  Stated another way, there may be 2 out of 4 matchups where MisD is NOT dead.  Then, add the occasional Void/Sui-Black deck to the mix.  It's even good against Sligh to some extent (direct damage), Slavery, Trix, and Tendril's...which all tend to run Blue Control elements along with Ancestral and/or Mind Twist.

The opportunity to use MisD to your advantage as either a counter, an Ancestral, a Mind Twist, or a Hymn are huge.  Fish/Gay-r only run 2, but I believe that the MisD's are a critical part of the deck's design.  

If I can gather enough info on this, I will start a thread on it.

Dave.

[Dr. Sylvan]

My mistake on the Dry Spell thing; it's been a while since I considered non-instant utility cards for a blue deck. :)

As I recall, the metagame on the East Coast has a showing of ~25% Keeper, plus all of the Tog builds. Dr. Sylvan might know for sure (help me here Phil), but my bet would be that there is about a 50% chance (or higher) that a player will face Keeper AND Tog and/or Fish in 4 rounds of Swiss. Stated another way, there may be 2 out of 4 matchups where MisD is NOT dead. Then, add the occasional Void/Sui-Black deck to the mix.

Unfortunately I don't have archetype breakdowns for, well, pretty much anything outside the Top 8s (and those only for the big events). The general metagame information might prove useful to make regional generalizations, but I think most local metagames would routinely defy it, so I don't know if it's worth the effort to try to collect it. I've also never been to the Northeast (least of all for a Magic tournament), so I don't have any personal experience in the matter.

One tournament where we do have full information is GenCon 2003, but that doesn't include proxies, which are especially popular in the Northeast--not to mention the nine month time gap. One thing I think it is safe to conclude, though, is that 25% Keeper would be an incredibly high showing. Just look over in Kerz's thread for how surprised people are at certain exclusions from his metagame article (myself included). That indicates to me that everyone sees not just diverse metagames, but different diverse metagames. IME, no metagame would be so diverse in 25% presence of any deck. (For comparison, Dragon looked like it was restriction-bound in December, when it made <20% of T8s.) The likelihood of seeing the Keeper, Tog, and Fish matchups is high, but seeing more than one of them in four rounds is by no means reliably true.

However, I'd cede the point to anyone with better data, because data > *.