Meddling Mike
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« on: March 29, 2011, 05:45:56 pm » |
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I was thinking the other day "Whatever happened to street wraith? When it was first printed people were sure it would be a staple in Dredge decks if not many vintage decks." There seem to be a lot of similar examples I counted over the years where the expectation for the card at the time of printing was very high, but never made a relevant impact on any format.
Some other examples:
Shadowmage Infiltrator: He's an ophidian with built in evasion AND still deals his damage! He looks kind of silly compared to the many ophidian alternatives available now like Cold-Eyed Selkie, but at the time, people seemed to think Finkel really nailed it with this card.
Isochron Scepter: Scepter was cheap and allowed you to do busted plays like putting your ancestral on a stick, even a brainstorm could be pretty devastating. I guess the splash damage from other artifact hate like null rods and such was too much to be investing two cards into.
Life From the Loam: I remember Rich Shay advising me to pick these up on the suggestion that these could be the next Call of the Herd in terms of valuable cards that were under the radar. Although this card did see some play in other formats, but despite it's synergy with the plentiful fetch lands in vintage the card never really seemed to become a part of the vintage scene.
What card did you hold high hopes for that never seemed to pan out?
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Meddling Mike posts so loudly that nobody can get a post in edgewise.
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Clown of Tresserhorn
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« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2011, 05:59:19 pm » |
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Supression Field. I had pipe dreams about a white stax deck.
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Smmenen
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« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2011, 06:05:52 pm » |
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Street Wraith.
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Oath of Happy
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« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2011, 06:14:09 pm » |
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Esperzoa - I thought this was going to be the new flying Tarmogoyf that pitched for Force of Will and Thirst for Knowledge
Grimiore Thief - was supposed to be the ridiculous crazy card to mill away your tutor targets and win conditions, beat you down, and counter your spells
Extirpate - Is still a good card but isnt the insane uncounterable 1 mana game over spell that it was cracked up to be. Lots of decks run many win conditions now days and dont just rely on 1 single strategy anymore and there are a lot less duress effects running around.
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Meddling Mike
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« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2011, 06:20:34 pm » |
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Supression Field. I had pipe dreams about a white stax deck.
I remember that one, what's the biggest problem with the crucible/wasteland lock? Fetchlands! Seemed like that got around that really well. I remember when they printed Ethersworn Canonist later it was like Wizards was daring you to play a white Stax deck.
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Meddling Mike posts so loudly that nobody can get a post in edgewise.
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Bill Copes
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« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2011, 06:42:58 pm » |
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Esperzoa - I thought this was going to be the new flying Tarmogoyf that pitched for Force of Will and Thirst for Knowledge.
I thought the same thing about master of etherium.
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I'm the only other legal target, so I draw 6 cards, and he literally quits Magic. Terrorists searching in vain for these powerful weapons have the saying "Bill Copes spitteth, and he taketh away." Team TMD
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Troy_Costisick
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« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2011, 08:01:17 pm » |
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Trickbind
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Diakonov
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« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2011, 07:53:33 am » |
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Disrupting Shoal.
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DubDub
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« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2011, 07:56:32 am » |
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Sharuum, the Hegemon
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Vintage is a lovely format, it's too bad so few people can play because the supply of power is so small.
Chess really changed when they decided to stop making Queens and Bishops. I'm just glad I got my copies before the prices went crazy.
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marcb
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« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2011, 08:52:08 am » |
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Homelands!
I stopped buying cards for 5 years after that fiasco.
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Wagner
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« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2011, 09:27:06 am » |
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Isochron was much played in Vintage when it came out, and the Stick deck was very potent in Legacy for a while, sure, right now it doesn't do much, but it had its days.
Same for Shadowmage infiltrator, it was a chase rare when it came out and did see tournament play.
I'd go with Master Transmuter, people were all excited to play fancy tricks with fatties, but in they end, just another cute card that doesn't make the cut in stax.
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Meddling Mike
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« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2011, 02:25:22 pm » |
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Disrupting Shoal.
Would you play it if it read "counter target spell with converted mana cost X or less"? Matching up the CMC's seems a bit too situational, but if they did that I think that card would be alot closer to Force of Will. Isochron was much played in Vintage when it came out, and the Stick deck was very potent in Legacy for a while, sure, right now it doesn't do much, but it had its days.
Same for Shadowmage infiltrator, it was a chase rare when it came out and did see tournament play.
Maybe my memory is a little fuzzy on this, but I seem to recall vintage players playing scepter for about a month after it was printed in their various keeper lists before deciding that it was bad. It is true that it did see some reliable play in other formats. I do remember Shadowmage Infiltrator being a chase rare at first, but I don't recall it ever being played in any competitive deck. Now that I think of it, Mirari was also a pretty big disappointment from that set. Homelands!
I stopped buying cards for 5 years after that fiasco.
At least homelands printed one card good enough to grace the restricted list with Merchant scroll. I'm still holding out hope for leeches to see some play if they print a few more good infect creatures that don't kill you in one hit. Trickbind
I remember being excited about this one too. You always imagine them building up all their resources and then firing off a lethal tendrils and then ruining them with Trickbind, but when combo wins often times it's so far ahead that they could just cast another lethal tendrils or duress you before casting it. Sharuum, the Hegemon
Was this guy ever legal at the same time as Thirst for Knowledge? He seems like he would have been an adorable replacement for pentavus.
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Meddling Mike posts so loudly that nobody can get a post in edgewise.
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Dr. Sylvan
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« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2011, 03:25:37 pm » |
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Isochron was much played in Vintage when it came out, and the Stick deck was very potent in Legacy for a while, sure, right now it doesn't do much, but it had its days.
Maybe my memory is a little fuzzy on this, but I seem to recall vintage players playing scepter for about a month after it was printed in their various keeper lists before deciding that it was bad. It is true that it did see some reliable play in other formats. Your memory is correct, Isochron Scepter peaked at 2.4 copies per Top 8 in my January 2004 results ( summarized here), then rapidly disappeared.
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vassago
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« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2011, 03:32:37 pm » |
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....Guided Passage.... But on a more serious note, I had high hope for some of the following cards: Scroll Thief from M11. Glen Elandra Archmage from Eventide. Sharuum, the Hegemon
I would like to point out that Sharuum did see some play, between whacky welder decks and some dredge variants.
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.... "OMGWTFElephantOnMyFace".
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Delha
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« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2011, 03:36:53 pm » |
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Seedtime.
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I suppose it's mostly the thought that this format is just one big Mistake; and not even a very sophisticated one at that.
Much like humanity itself.
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DubDub
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« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2011, 03:50:50 pm » |
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....Guided Passage.... But on a more serious note, I had high hope for some of the following cards: Scroll Thief from M11. Glen Elandra Archmage from Eventide. Sharuum, the Hegemon
I would like to point out that Sharuum did see some play, between whacky welder decks and some dredge variants. I don't dispute that Sharuum saw play, it definitely did, heck, I played Archmage myself, but still a card I'm disappointed in, looking back. And yes it was co-legal with 4x Thirst for nine months if my memory is correct.
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Vintage is a lovely format, it's too bad so few people can play because the supply of power is so small.
Chess really changed when they decided to stop making Queens and Bishops. I'm just glad I got my copies before the prices went crazy.
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Twaun007
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« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2011, 03:54:12 pm » |
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I remember Ring of Gix being super hyped up back in the day.
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BC
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« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2011, 03:58:48 pm » |
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Thada Adel, Acquisitor. Wasn't that supposed to solve Time Vault? I think it turned out to be a solution for a problem that never existed in the first place.
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madmanmike25
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« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2011, 07:53:18 pm » |
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Culling Scales. Oh look its a 3cc Smokestack!!! No it's not, it sucks ass.
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AmbivalentDuck
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« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2011, 07:54:35 pm » |
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Simian Spirit Guide
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TheWhiteDragon
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« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2011, 09:08:36 pm » |
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Mishra's Workshop
Oh wait...that card's the shiznit, nevermind :p
On a serious note, extirpate was disappointing, yet is still somewhat useful. I remember buying a playset of grinning demons thinking they were the next Juzam djinn but better. Man was that a bust.
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Samite Healer
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« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2011, 09:10:01 pm » |
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Isochron was much played in Vintage when it came out, and the Stick deck was very potent in Legacy for a while, sure, right now it doesn't do much, but it had its days.
Same for Shadowmage infiltrator, it was a chase rare when it came out and did see tournament play.
Maybe my memory is a little fuzzy on this, but I seem to recall vintage players playing scepter for about a month after it was printed in their various keeper lists before deciding that it was bad. It is true that it did see some reliable play in other formats. I do remember Shadowmage Infiltrator being a chase rare at first, but I don't recall it ever being played in any competitive deck. Now that I think of it, Mirari was also a pretty big disappointment from that set. Man, where do I begin? I disagree with the analysis of almost every card you mentioned. Shadowmage Infiltrator was amazing in it's time, and saw play in a whole bunch of decks, in two formats. Not only did it see considerable play in T2, it was played in Finkula and some other decks in old Extended when dual lands were still legal in that format. Isochron Scepter, I'd hardly call a disappointment. In Vintage, at least in the New England/Hadley/RI scene it saw considerable play. Team Hadley had a deck called "The Chronic" which was basicaly 4 scepter keeper control with Fire/Ice among other things. It definitely lasted several months, and caused the metagame to warp significantly in those areas so that Stifles became popular and Oshawa Stompy variants. We also had Scepter Chant for a few years, and it's played casually ever since the card was printed. I'd hardly call it a disappointment overall. Mirari....ok perhaps it wasn't as amazing as everyone originally though, but it still had it's place in Wake decks and in plenty of casual games. I totally agree with Master of Etherium and Suppression Field. Meddling Mage (the card) was a complete disappointment the second time around in Alara Reborn.
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Meddling Mike
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« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2011, 10:40:04 pm » |
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Shadowmage Infiltrator was amazing in it's time, and saw play in a whole bunch of decks, in two formats. Not only did it see considerable play in T2, it was played in Finkula and some other decks in old Extended when dual lands were still legal in that format. I managed to scare up some results from major Standard and Block tournaments when SI was legal in those formats, I saw 4 copies of Finkel show up at GP Boston, but nothing in the 2002 or 2003 Worlds (I guess people thought psychatog was a better value for 1UB). Clearly he wasn't a 100% bust, but disappointment in a card is of course the product of our expectations. Personally I expected this card to be a house in Block and Standard, but I haven't seen much to suggest that he was. He was THE chase rare along with Mirari when the set first came out, while Call of the Herd was sitting in dollar bins people were trying to get there hands on this card. To me, SI didn't perform anywhere near expectations. Isochron Scepter, I'd hardly call a disappointment. In Vintage, at least in the New England/Hadley/RI scene it saw considerable play. Team Hadley had a deck called "The Chronic" which was basicaly 4 scepter keeper control with Fire/Ice among other things. It definitely lasted several months, and caused the metagame to warp significantly in those areas so that Stifles became popular and Oshawa Stompy variants. Again this was one of those cards where although the card wasn't a complete bust in Vintage, but initially my expectations were higher than what it turned out to be. I had just started playing vintage and looking at this card I thought it would be a staple for years to come. I guess the folks in Hadley hung onto it longer than most, but going by Dr. Sylvan's data and the fact that it's clearly not a Vintage staple means it didn't live up to what I thought it could be. Hell, it didn't even make it on Steve's Vintage Checklist. Teferi's Realm is on that list! I remember Ring of Gix being super hyped up back in the day.
It's hard to imagine getting really excited by a 1 cheaper (or two more expensive?) Icy Manipulator, especially given all the broken cards in that set. Surprising how views on cards change over time.
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« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 10:52:44 pm by Meddling Mage »
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Meddling Mike posts so loudly that nobody can get a post in edgewise.
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Ten-Ten
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« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2011, 11:44:40 pm » |
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seedtime Vexing sphinx esperzoa master of etherium street wraith null profusion yawgmoth's agenda jhoira of the Ghitu peace talks fold into aether mishra, artificer prodigy inquisition of kozilek see beyond extirpate trickbind gilded lotus thrumming stone maelstrom nexus hisoka, minamo sensei sedris, the traitor king kaho, minamo historian crime//punishment vedalken archmage artificer's intuition thada adel life from the loam predict sen triplets Disrupting Shoal mox opal (may be too soon, still) ......and many more 
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Colossians 2:2,3 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, both of the Father, and of Christ; In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
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Diakonov
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« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2011, 07:36:17 am » |
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I was going to say Sen Triplets, also. I had dreams of casting Hurkyll's Recall on my opponent and ending up with pairs of Mox Sapphires and Mox Jets on my board  Disrupting Shoal.
Would you play it if it read "counter target spell with converted mana cost X or less"? Matching up the CMC's seems a bit too situational, but if they did that I think that card would be alot closer to Force of Will. Absolutely. It would be amazing with Gush, Jaces and/or Tezzerets. When it came out, Tog decks appeared to be making a comeback with Intuitions and AK's, and Stax was not nearly as popular, so it seemed more reasonable at the time that it could be playable. Vexing Shusher. Boseiju, Who Shelters Nobody. Mox Opal is fine!
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Bill Copes
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« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2011, 07:59:23 am » |
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Vexing Shusher I've seen Jeff Carpenter and Jerimiah Rudolph playing what you could essentially call a "Vexing Slaver" list, when we still had Thirst for Knowledge as a draw engine. It might not have run the actual mindslaver, though. It was a cute deck, utilizing shusher to cast your spells through chalice or to make every bomb you cast uncounterable. I think they even top 8'd a few events with it.
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I'm the only other legal target, so I draw 6 cards, and he literally quits Magic. Terrorists searching in vain for these powerful weapons have the saying "Bill Copes spitteth, and he taketh away." Team TMD
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« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2011, 09:16:34 am » |
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Gilded Lotus was actually a powerhouse in the 7/10 decks for a year or so when it originally came out, it is pretty garbage now but then again the format was a lot slower so spending 5 on a mana accelerator worked out alright.
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"After these years of arguing I've conceded that Merchant Scroll in particular can be an exception to this rule because it is a card that you NEVER want to see in multiples, under any circumstances. Merchant Scroll can be seen as restricted in a way because should you have 2 in a hand, only one is really useful (that is, only one can get Ancestral)."
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TheBrassMan
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« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2011, 09:28:02 am » |
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Raven's Crime, I think.
I test a lot of bad cards, but I usually cut them before going to a Vintage Champs and scrubbing 3 separate events.
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Mr. Type 4
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« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2011, 09:37:43 am » |
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Pact of Negation - was playable, but I thought would see a lot more play. losing is a big drawback, see final fortune.
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Tobi
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« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2011, 12:35:52 am » |
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Definitely Leyline of Anticipation. A promise to change the Magic world. Did nothing.
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2b || !2b
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