Jace Control

[brokenbacon]

Hey all,
I just thought maybe a 4x Jace list would be in order, because the card is fucking nuts.
Lightning Bolt is also a card I wanted to use in a list, as it hits Lodestone Golem, Jace, Bob, Trygon Predator, Oath tokens, baby Goyf, Meddling Mage, Pridemage, Revoker, Metalworker, Selkie, etc., etc.
The following build is firmly based on 2 Volcanic Island and the SB Mountain. With 8 MUD hate and 4 Basics post board, it is not going to be hard to beat the crap out of Shops. Against Blue.dec, 4x Jace is going to be amazing, and Bolt takes out the opposing Jaces and Bobs (which are on the rise, it seems). Also 13 counter/control cards against Blue always works. Against Fish, the 2 Bolts main will help g1 and g2 REBS will help play cleanup as well. Against Dredge is the standard hate plan, with 4 Leyline and 2 Jailer.
Preordains smooth out draws, Mystical for Tinker is always great, and 9 artifact mana with 3 Drains means turn 2 or three Jace is easy.
So without further ado, I give you Jace Control!

4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
3 Thoughtseize
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Ancient Grudge

4 Jace the Mind Sculptor
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Preordain
1 Sensei’s Divining Top

1 Tinker
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth’s Will

1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Demonic Tutor

1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus

4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Volcanic Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
3 Island
1 Tolarian Academy

SB
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Yixlid Jailer
4 Ingot Chewer
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Mountain
2 REB

SB Plans go something like this (not set in stone):

vs. Dredge
-1 Bolt
-3 Seize
-2 Grudge
+4 Leyline
+2 Jailer

vs. MUD
-3 Seize
-2 Jace
-2 Bolt
+4 Chewer
+2 Grudge
+1 Mountain

vs. Blue.dec
-1 Bolt
-1 Grudge
+2 REB
(vs. Bobs -2 Grudge +2 REB)

vs. Fish
-2 Grudge
+2 REB


Have at it, sirs! Criticism is more than welcome.

[MackTheTemp]

4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Mox Opal
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Voltaic Key
1 Time Vault
1 Inkwell Leviathan

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Yawgmoth's Will
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Tinker

4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
3 Mana Drain
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Brainstorm
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
1 Chain of Vapor

5 Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Volcanic Island
2 Polluted Delta

SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 4 Ingot Chewer
SB: 1 Mountain
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast


Heya, here's the Jace list that I've been playing with on cockatrice for a week or so. I haven't had a chance to play vs shops, but vs fish combo and control it's been fairly impressive. Originally, I had 3 duress in the spell pierce slots, but I found that they were very often too slow and spell pierce would have been better.

I guess the most interesting addition to the deck is gitaxian probe. Probe has been amazing in every game where I played it - having the ability to see your opponents hand ( especially turn 1 ) is worth 2 life every time. Additionally, it's a free draw and storm off yawg will. I'd really like to fit an empty the warrens in the deck somewhere, but I'm not too sure where I'd fit it. I don't think it's really needed but something like -1 pierce or -1 drain +1 ETW could be really strong given that this deck can combo off using will, hurks (with loads of artifacts), repeal, chain, probe yawg will into a a very big storm count.

I opt not to run ponder or some U sorcery scrying cards in favor of the probes. While this does somewhat limit the consistency of your draws, it does help to power mystical and vampiric tutor in addition to giving you tons of info about your opponent. The main goal is to control you opponent and land your bomb (jace/tinker/will) like any good blue mage so I found that probes helped me achieve this better than ponder or some scrying card would. Not to mention, running drain + pierce there's alot of time I'd really like to keep the 3 mana open.

I'm not sure that the repeal, chain, hurk package is optimal, but I haven't had a chance to test on cockatrice yet so I really don't know how well this deck will fair against shops.

So forum... do u guys think this deck wants ETW? Is ETW > key/vault? I've only got 1 top so the key/top interaction is there but it's less important that other decks. +1 top +1 ETW -1 key -1 vault is also possible... but, I think that the shell of this deck feels really good.

[MackTheTemp]

So bacon, what do you think of my decklist? have you tried it?

[brokenbacon]

I like this list. It's very BBS-esque, much less 4c control oriented. I don't know if that's right given the current meta, but as I said I like it. 5 Islands is pretty sick, and stick with Vault Key. I mean, that's the point of the deck! That is, to be stupid and play Blue to beat Shops and just assemble Vault Key, or Tinker BSC.
Honestly I think Thoughtseize is just the better card in the Spell Pierce vs. Seize debate, but I can understand the desire to win counter wars.
Currently I'm testing other crap, but I'll definitely give this build a look. The only problem I had when testing my list was that you would shit out the opponent with control, but burn out your hand and then be screwed and they would hypothetically topdeck a bomb and win. I like the consistency with this list though.
How's Repeal for you? I've heard it does good things against opposing Bobs and such nonsense. Always loved the card, never had the balls to play it.

[MackTheTemp]

Well I haven't tested repeal extensively, but it's hardly ever a dead draw. It can create some tempo which gives me time to set up my drain or have them tap out so I can drop Jace/Tinker.

As for thoughtseize - I really don't want to be tapping out in the early game - I'd much rather play permission especially with the probes which sometimes will give me perfect information making pierce and drain that much more powerful. I tested a bunch with duress - but it was pretty underwhelming; I want to drain into Jace/Tinker/will/vault etc. and duress doesn't help me accomplish this.

[brokenbacon]

Well that I can understand. I just personally think that relying on Drain for cards such as that isn't necessarily always a good idea. I consider Drain mana a nicety rather than a stepping stone for a control deck. If you love Drain that much, go to 4! It isn't unheard of these days. Shops might get you every once in a while, but overall 4 Drain is fun times.

[MackTheTemp]

I just played my first games vs ichorid and got rolled.
Leyline, is not what I want to play with this deck. What's a better card for the board? The spellbomb? Relic? Crypt? A Mix?

And yea, key vault isn't going anywhere.

[brokenbacon]

Honestly Leyline is simply the best Dredge hate. I strongly recommend the simple package of 4 Leyline 2 Jailer 1 Spellbomb. Pithing Needle is pretty bad against Ichorid, but a strong 7 like what I said works well a lot. Spell Pierces are also awesome amazing in this matchup, all you need is a Leyline, a Spell Pierce, and a Drain and you'll win no problem.
Also Vault Key, remember, is a primary win condition! If you want to switch over to ETW Tezz, this ain't the right deck. 4x Jace is not something Josh Potucek would like you doing at all. Besides, I find Tinker Blightsteel to seal the deal much more often than Vault Key, but that's just me. Seriously, it's the reason to play Blue these days.

[MackTheTemp]

How low do you mull with leyline?

[brokenbacon]

I mean you have to have 1-2 pieces of Dredge hate in your hand against Dredge postboard, and I would pitch down to 5 or 4 for at least 1 piece. I get pretty bad luck against Dredge though so that's just me. I run 7 hate for this reason (4 Leyline 1 Crypt 1 Yix 1 Spellbomb)

[JuzamDjinn]

I hope I'm not lowering the level of this thread by this post, but I wonder if some of you could help me to trim this deck to an unpowered meta. (That means no MUD, STAX, Gush, Tendrils). Most likely meta will be Oath, Tezz/Painter, Fish and Aggro (hatebears, goblins, affinity, vengevine stuff) and perhaps Bazaarless Dredge)

With this list from Josh Potucek as a shell:

1 Black Lotus
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
4 Null Rod
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Echoing Truth
4 Force of Will
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Mana Drain
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Misdirection
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Spell Pierce
4 Standstill
 2 Steel Sabotage
1 Time Walk
3 Lightning Bolt

1 Flooded Strand
3 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Strip Mine
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

I don't see much need for 4 Null Rod and 2 Steel Sabotage MD, 2 Mindbreak Trap is also a big questionmark. What 8 cards would you put into this deck instead to battle the above mentioned decks?

This deck has 2 Underground Sea in its sideboard so black mana is not a problem. LMK

Edit: What about
-4 Null Rod, -2 Steel Sabotage, -2 Mindbreak Trap, -1 Misdirection (-1 Crucible of Worlds, -1 Lightning Bolt)
+4 Painter’s Servant, +1(2) Grindstone, +4 Trinket Mage, +(1) Fire / Ice

This could:
A) Make REB/Pyroblast in the side a little bit stronger
B) Enable a 1cc toolbox in the side
C) Justify perhaps playing Tinker + robot.

[Lemnear]

For this specific meta I think Snapcaster Mage, Spell Snare and Lightning Bolt as trinity will rock the whole event alone. You should add some artifact/enchantment removal mainboard for oath and painter, maybe even run more burn in form of Fire/ice. Mental misstep over spell pierce should be considered here too. Preordain is a must-have. Why doesn't this list miss brainstorm?!?!

[JuzamDjinn]

For this specific meta I think Snapcaster Mage, Spell Snare and Lightning Bolt as trinity will rock the whole event alone. You should add some artifact/enchantment removal mainboard for oath and painter, maybe even run more burn in form of Fire/ice. Mental misstep over spell pierce should be considered here too. Preordain is a must-have. Why doesn't this list miss brainstorm?!?!

So you wouldn't bother including the painter combo? (if I read your reply correct)

-4 Null Rod, -2 Steel Sabotage, -2 Mindbreak Trap, -1 Misdirection, -2 Spell Pierce
+4 Snapcaster Mage, +1 Fire / Ice (total 4 burn spells), +3 Mental Misstep, +3 Spell Snare

I don't think there is room for MD artifact/enchantment hate other than Hurkyl's Recall and Echoing Truth if I want to put in these cards. Don't know what to remove for Preordain and Brainstorm. Perhaps I could cut the Crucible of Worlds, Standstill, Mishra's Factory package. The deck will be completely different but I will have 6 more spots maindeck to play with and more stable manabase, easier to include Underground Sea for possible sideboard tech. Thanks for replying

[Lemnear]

I hadn't talked about Painter because this one would take us far away from the thread title, pal. Unpowered Painter with 4-6 maindeck REB/Pyroblast is an option for you but we're here in the "Jace Control" thread I don't want to derail with discussing the listed Landstill list or Painter. Jace Control doesn't really make it as an unpowered approach I guess

If you would start a new thread on the board to compare unpowered variants of UR(B) Painter and UR(B) Landstill I would gladly assist

[JuzamDjinn]

I hadn't talked about Painter because this one would take us far away from the thread title, pal. Unpowered Painter with 4-6 maindeck REB/Pyroblast is an option for you but we're here in the "Jace Control" thread I don't want to derail with discussing the listed Landstill list or Painter.

If you would start a new thread on the board to compare unpowered variants of UR(B) Painter and UR(B) Landstill I would gladly assist

Ok, thank you