3rd Place with Meandeck Bob/Gush Control – The 2011 Vintage Championship

[bluemage55]

Congrats on the finish and thanks for the insightful article!

How do you feel about Bob vs. Night's Whisper?  Is Bob strictly better due to the 2/1 body that gets through Thorn, even though it takes two turns to catch up (given that the goal is to go off in a few turns the inevitability doesn't seem to matter)?  Or is this more of a situational/metagame call where the preferred pick varies?

[Smmenen]

Congrats on the finish and thanks for the insightful article!

How do you feel about Bob vs. Night's Whisper?  Is Bob strictly better due to the 2/1 body that gets through Thorn, even though it takes two turns to catch up (given that the goal is to go off in a few turns the inevitability doesn't seem to matter)?  Or is this more of a situational/metagame call where the preferred pick varies?

Night's Whisper is a very intriguing choice that I like alot, actually.   It generates marginal card advantage, and helps you to continue to develop your resources to a critical mass.   Dark Confidant is much superior in the field that I anticipated, again, where, as you pointed out, I needed ways to combat Workshops, and Bob not only provided continued card advantage, resource development, and board presence through Thorn and against Panther, but also helped in that regard in other matchups, such as Beats/Fish.   Night's Whisper might very well be superior in a field where there are no Shops and minimal aggro-control.  

Incidentally, I'm working on a mini-primer for this deck that will basically serve as a supplement to my book (but will be free) on QuietSpeculation.com.  Look for it next Monday on QS. 

[bluemage55]

Night's Whisper is a very intriguing choice that I like alot, actually.   It generates marginal card advantage, and helps you to continue to develop your resources to a critical mass.   Dark Confidant is much superior in the field that I anticipated, again, where, as you pointed out, I needed ways to combat Workshops, and Bob not only provided continued card advantage, resource development, and board presence through Thorn and against Panther, but also helped in that regard in other matchups, such as Beats/Fish.   Night's Whisper might very well be superior in a field where there are no Shops and minimal aggro-control.

That makes sense.  Thank you for explaining.

Incidentally, I'm working on a mini-primer for this deck that will basically serve as a supplement to my book (but will be free) on QuietSpeculation.com.  Look for it next Monday on QS. 

Looking forward to it.

[cvarosky80]

Incidentally, I'm working on a mini-primer for this deck that will basically serve as a supplement to my book (but will be free) on QuietSpeculation.com.  Look for it next Monday on QS. 

Knew it! I'm glad to hear this. I've been recently testing with this deck and I have to say, I'm amazed as to how consistent it runs game to game. It's one of the more consistent decks I've seen.

[Odd mutation]

Incidentally, I'm working on a mini-primer for this deck that will basically serve as a supplement to my book (but will be free) on QuietSpeculation.com.  Look for it next Monday on QS.  

I've played the deck several games now against Cat Stax and honestly, I've been having trouble. Looking forward to learn what I've been doing wrong...

[mostapha]

Incidentally, I'm working on a mini-primer for this deck that will basically serve as a supplement to my book (but will be free) on QuietSpeculation.com.  Look for it next Monday on QS.  

I've played the deck several games now against Cat Stax and honestly, I've been having trouble. Looking forward to learn what I've been doing wrong...

That has not been my experience.  In my testing, it's usually kinda close and often comes down to not drawing a bolt or an ingot chewer too late and holding on to hurkyl's until you're about to lose or just need one completely clear turn.  But I could be doing something wrong as well…or more than likely your opponents might be better than mine. 

Stephen, I look forward to your article.  Unfortunately, it's going to be a couple days late for my first vintage tournament where I'll be running something very close (-1 trygon, -1 bob, -1 ponder, + vault/key and a jace and some small tweaks to the sideboard).  It's testing well, but my playtesting partners have even less vintage experience than I do.  I'm wondering whether or not the changes are worth reducing the consistency of the draw. 

[Smmenen]

Incidentally, I'm working on a mini-primer for this deck that will basically serve as a supplement to my book (but will be free) on QuietSpeculation.com.  Look for it next Monday on QS.  

I've played the deck several games now against Cat Stax and honestly, I've been having trouble. Looking forward to learn what I've been doing wrong...

That has not been my experience.  In my testing, it's usually kinda close and often comes down to not drawing a bolt or an ingot chewer too late and holding on to hurkyl's until you're about to lose or just need one completely clear turn.  But I could be doing something wrong as well…or more than likely your opponents might be better than mine.  

Stephen, I look forward to your article.  Unfortunately, it's going to be a couple days late for my first vintage tournament where I'll be running something very close (-1 trygon, -1 bob, -1 ponder, + vault/key and a jace and some small tweaks to the sideboard).  It's testing well, but my playtesting partners have even less vintage experience than I do.  I'm wondering whether or not the changes are worth reducing the consistency of the draw.  

Incidentally, I'm working on a mini-primer for this deck that will basically serve as a supplement to my book (but will be free) on QuietSpeculation.com.  Look for it next Monday on QS.  

I've played the deck several games now against Cat Stax and honestly, I've been having trouble. Looking forward to learn what I've been doing wrong...

This may sound self-serving, but I'd direct your attention to Chapter 6 of my book

The absolutely most important aspect of facing Workshops is mana management.   The things that matter:

1) Which land to play
2) when to play a land,
3) When to crack a fetchland
4) when to play a Mox
5) when not to play a mox

A single misplay here, such as fetching a dual land on turn one instead of leaving the Fetchland in play or instead of fetching an Island, can directly lead to a game loss.  My chapter covers these points in detail.

The second most important thing when facing Shops is obviously having enough Shop hate.  My deck and SB has enough that this shouldn't be a problem

The third most important thing is to be strategically focused.  You need to know exactly what you need to do to win.   In this deck's case, that means resolving and protecting Trygon.   The critical part here is mulliganing well.   You can't keep one land hands that seem good otherwise.  

I'd rather have a six card hand like this:  Mox, Island, Fetch, Dual, Trygon, Bob,

than this hand:

Force
Fetch
Ancestral
Spell Pierce
Hurkyl's
Trygon
Ponder

You also need to realize that you aren't going to win every game.  You just need to win the match.   Having Trygons MD gives you enough of a chance of winning G1 to give you positive odds in the match. 

[dicemanx]

I know I'm late to the party, my congrats on your performance and the deck innovation!

I am very curious however about your choice of Vendilion Cliques. Paul elected not to run them, and it seems that many that have copied your deck to play in more recent events have eschewed Clique as well. Since it seems that there is very little analysis of this card, I was wondering if you could elaborate on Clique, and whether you would still run it in this deck, or if you would opt for Vault/Key (although by your earlier analysis of Vault/Key in this deck, I understand that this is doubtful).

[Smmenen]

I know I'm late to the party, my congrats on your performance and the deck innovation!

I am very curious however about your choice of Vendilion Cliques. Paul elected not to run them, and it seems that many that have copied your deck to play in more recent events have eschewed Clique as well. Since it seems that there is very little analysis of this card, I was wondering if you could elaborate on Clique, and whether you would still run it in this deck, or if you would opt for Vault/Key (although by your earlier analysis of Vault/Key in this deck, I understand that this is doubtful).

I briefly answered this on the second page of the thread:

All of the small creatures in my deck are tactical.  Clique's primary purposes were 1) return Blightsteel in my deck, 2) kill opposing Jaces, 3) Duress the opponent, and 4) block attackers. 

But I talk about it in more detail in my article that I submitted for early next week for QS, so I'll be sure to link you to it then rather than just rewrite the whole blurb now. 

[dicemanx]

Look forward to that article!

I indeed saw your reasons for running Clique, although I'm curious why so many others have refrained from using it. It's so heavily used across formats, I wonder if the vintage crowd is just too slow in adopting it, and it is indeed the bomb that it looks to be.

[Smmenen]

Look forward to that article!

I indeed saw your reasons for running Clique, although I'm curious why so many others have refrained from using it. It's so heavily used across formats, I wonder if the vintage crowd is just too slow in adopting it, and it is indeed the bomb that it looks to be.

In the final game of my match against Paul, had I played Clique, I probably would have won the game.

He had just Tinkered for BSC. I had four mana available, Bob in play, and DT in hand.   I could have played Clique + Spell Pierce.  Had I done so, he would have attempted to force my Clique, and I would have played Spell Pierce.  I would have cleared any Time Walk, Yawg Will, Reb, etc effect out of his hand, double blocked his BSC, then untapped and DT'd for Hurky's or just try to win on the spot.   I greedily assumed he didn't have FOW, and he kinda tricked me into thinking that was the case.

He would have had two draws to potentially find a red blast: off the draw from clique, and the draw from his draw step, but the odds favored me.   

Clique was OFTEN better than Dark Confidant.  I'm huge on the card.   

[cvarosky80]

I'm highly looking forward to this article on Monday, but I do want to ask if there will be an updated list in this article?

[Smmenen]

I'm highly looking forward to this article on Monday, but I do want to ask if there will be an updated list in this article?

Yes!!!!

[Smmenen]

FYI, that article has been published, and is linked here:

http://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/09/understanding-gush-with-dark-confidant-bobgush-control/

This is my 16 page primer on the Bob/Gush Control deck, complete with Updated Decklist and SBing chart. 
Also, here's what I said about the changes to my list:

Your latest list has 61 cards. I cut Ponder and didn't miss it when I went 4-1 with a similar list last Saturday.

Whoops.   I'd cut a Clique, then.

How come you would cut a Clique from that 61 cards list?
As you stated yourself, you're HUGE on the card.

Clique was OFTEN better than Dark Confidant.  I'm huge on the card.   

Is it still really the best card to cut?

You raise an excellent point.   Now that I have a few minutes, let me provide a more detailed response.  I will double post this into my tournament report as well.

I no longer have to be coy about my post-Champs changes.   Immediately after the tournament, both Paul and I concluded that the two cards that could be cut were 2nd Top and 4th Bob.  But I needed to make room for three cards: 1 Jace, and 2 Key/Vault.   So, the third card I decided to cut was the 3rd Trygon Predator, for the reasons described in this article.   In the post-Champs metagame, Trygon Predator loses alot of its luster.   If people keep playing Cat Stax it will be strong, but if people go to Hellkite lists, I'd rather have Ancient Grudge.

When I started working on this article, though, I reversed my position on cutting the 4th Bob.  Your point about Clique reminded me, and when I finally analyze my videoed games, it came home, that I really do prefer the 2 Cliques to the 4th Bob.    So, I would cut the 4th Bob, the 2nd Top, and the 3rd Trygon for 2 Key/vault and 1 Jace.  That's my updated list.

And, yes, I run Jailer.  That SB must be 14 cards.  Notice it is listed in the SB chart.