[Innistrad] - Snapcaster Mage

[Saya]

Snapcaster Mage's best friend is phyrexian mana:Misstep and Dismember.
I put 3 Nightscape Familiar into my snapcaster deck,which works well.for example,I need only UU to play Mage+Manaleak if I control him

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

that seems awefull

[Blue Lotus]

that seems awefull

Drunk post or just terrible at spelling?

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

Typo. Must be the first time it ever happened on the internet.

[Onslaught]

Kind of excited to see what sort of impact Snapcaster will have at The Waterbury today/tomorrow.

[Commandant]

Kind of excited to see what sort of impact Snapcaster will have at The Waterbury today/tomorrow.

I was there and all I can say is zzzzzzzz. The only decent build "I" saw was the one Kevin Cron was running.

[Onslaught]

What was he running? Also, what did you run?

[Commandant]

What was he running? Also, what did you run?

REBS, Missteps, other functional 1CC spells, I only observed two of his games. I ran a Bob Mystic Remora list faced two Snapcaster centric lists both of which seemed pretty marginal. I'm sorry but paying three mana for a 2/1 non evasive and a Preordain is so mediocre it's not even funny; I can't even tell you how many relevant plays I Mindbreak Trapped today thanks to people pumping up their spell count with Snapcaster. This isn't to say the card is bad - I just think it's early and people are doing it wrong.

[cvarosky80]

I think the problem with building a deck that is centered around using him is that he's just too situational to be consistently abuse-able. As Commandant just pointed out, paying 3 mana to Preordain is the kind of play that will set you back more than it will help advance your strategy. Obviously that is just one example, and he can of course do much more than that, but it's all contingent on something like an Ancestral, Time Walk, Tinker, ect. being in your graveyard to begin with, having the mana to flash it back, AND having the ability to protect the spell your flashing back (Because if you can't, and it goes to shit, there's a good chance something bad will happen to you in the game in the near future). I would think that rather than building a deck around him, it would be better to incorporate him as a utility player as a 2-of in an existing deck. It's just my thought, of course.

[Daenyth]

I've been using him in sort of a draw go style. He's great against control getting back duress and cmc1 counters. I don't think my list is right though. Pretty sure his best pairing will be with Bob

[Saya]

Do they -2 invitational creatures- have any synergy?

[diopter]

I was under the impression this card was as good as Merchant Scroll. AND the best creature ever printed. Shocking a 2 mana Regrowth didn't break the format in half.

I hear there were riptide labs floating around. Turn that 2 mana Regrowth into a 5 mana recurrable Regrowth! Yeah!

[Cruel Ultimatum]

I was under the impression this card was as good as Merchant Scroll. AND the best creature ever printed. Shocking a 2 mana Regrowth didn't break the format in half.

I hear there were riptide labs floating around. Turn that 2 mana Regrowth into a 5 mana recurrable Regrowth! Yeah!

Snapcaster mage also makes it so dark confidants can basically never attack into 1u, and i think a lot of decks would play a land that said 2uu target card gets flashback.

[diopter]

You're joking right?

[Daenyth]

I didn't play snaps this weekend, but from what I've seen of people who did, and what I've tested online, riptide lab is win-more. Using him once is plenty.

[bluemage55]

Do they -2 invitational creatures- have any synergy?

Both are well suited to a draw-go style in a deck that is heavy on low-cc spells.

I think the problem with building a deck that is centered around using him is that he's just too situational to be consistently abuse-able. As Commandant just pointed out, paying 3 mana to Preordain is the kind of play that will set you back more than it will help advance your strategy. Obviously that is just one example, and he can of course do much more than that, but it's all contingent on something like an Ancestral, Time Walk, Tinker, ect. being in your graveyard to begin with, having the mana to flash it back, AND having the ability to protect the spell your flashing back (Because if you can't, and it goes to shit, there's a good chance something bad will happen to you in the game in the near future).

I concur.  You basically never want to draw a 2nd copy since you will rarely have another bomb in your grave to flashback.  You also only need 1 copy to get maximum utility out of Gifts when using Snapcaster as a blue Recoup.  Singleton Snapcaster seems much better than building a deck around it.

[Commandant]

You're joking right?

I'm not that big of a fan of Riptide Lab; however if I'm not mistaken lab did place top 8 at Waterbury this past weekend.

[Daenyth]

Do they -2 invitational creatures- have any synergy?

Both are well suited to a draw-go style in a deck that is heavy on low-cc spells.

I think the problem with building a deck that is centered around using him is that he's just too situational to be consistently abuse-able. As Commandant just pointed out, paying 3 mana to Preordain is the kind of play that will set you back more than it will help advance your strategy. Obviously that is just one example, and he can of course do much more than that, but it's all contingent on something like an Ancestral, Time Walk, Tinker, ect. being in your graveyard to begin with, having the mana to flash it back, AND having the ability to protect the spell your flashing back (Because if you can't, and it goes to shit, there's a good chance something bad will happen to you in the game in the near future).

I concur.  You basically never want to draw a 2nd copy since you will rarely have another bomb in your grave to flashback.  You also only need 1 copy to get maximum utility out of Gifts when using Snapcaster as a blue Recoup.  Singleton Snapcaster seems much better than building a deck around it.

You don't need bombs. Getting back a duress when you know there's a target is usually very strong, as well as flusterstorm and misstep.

[Womba]

I didn't play snaps this weekend, but from what I've seen of people who did, and what I've tested online, riptide lab is win-more. Using him once is plenty.

I disagree. Demars was playing a deck with snaps and riptide lab. He beat me hard this weekend in both games basically because he had riptide lab online. Against other blue decks being able to get riptide and snapcaster is a total beating and not win-more IMO, especially in watching some of the other games it was used in. It really allows you to dictate the tempo of the game and making flusterstorm pretty insane....

[forests failed you]

I didn't play snaps this weekend, but from what I've seen of people who did, and what I've tested online, riptide lab is win-more. Using him once is plenty.

Riptide Laboratory breaks the blue mirror match if the game isn't over by turn three.  Its essentially just a better Library of Alexandria.

[Cruel Ultimatum]

I didn't play snaps this weekend, but from what I've seen of people who did, and what I've tested online, riptide lab is win-more. Using him once is plenty.

Riptide Laboratory breaks the blue mirror match if the game isn't over by turn three.  Its essentially just a better Library of Alexandria.

Yeah, you don't really lose anything from playing riptide lab, and the upside is so huge. I don't understand the idea that it is winmore, since one snapcaster mage is probobly not going to win the game, therefor it cannot be winmore. IMO it turns value into win, not win into winmore. Also if you have vendilion clique in your deck, riptide lab goes way up in value.

[diopter]

I didn't play snaps this weekend, but from what I've seen of people who did, and what I've tested online, riptide lab is win-more. Using him once is plenty.

Riptide Laboratory breaks the blue mirror match if the game isn't over by turn three.  Its essentially just a better Library of Alexandria.

3UU Regrowths break the blue mirror? Which shitty blue decks are you playing against?

[Cruel Ultimatum]

I didn't play snaps this weekend, but from what I've seen of people who did, and what I've tested online, riptide lab is win-more. Using him once is plenty.

Riptide Laboratory breaks the blue mirror match if the game isn't over by turn three.  Its essentially just a better Library of Alexandria.

3UU Regrowths break the blue mirror? Which shitty blue decks are you playing against?

What shitty logic do you have where a land that regrowths is the same as regrowth?

[diopter]

I didn't play snaps this weekend, but from what I've seen of people who did, and what I've tested online, riptide lab is win-more. Using him once is plenty.

Riptide Laboratory breaks the blue mirror match if the game isn't over by turn three.  Its essentially just a better Library of Alexandria.

3UU Regrowths break the blue mirror? Which shitty blue decks are you playing against?

What shitty logic do you have where a land that regrowths is the same as regrowth?

You are correct of course. You have to have resolved Snapcaster Mage first. The land that regrows does not actually regrow unless you have already played a Regrow. And it costs 5 to go the second time.

Aside: What opponents are letting you do this?? If you have 7 mana to bounce a mage to regrow a Drain, is your opponent not on seven mana to send back spell pierce or his own drain or even better, hardcast FoW? How are you getting ahead on resources here? (aside from Regrowing Preordain which is awful)

"You don't really lose anything from playing riptide lab" is the attitude that gives Shops openings to win, again and again.

Lastly, comparisons to LoA are a little out there. LoA costs 1 to activate. Lab needs 5! Though both Lab and LoA are huge liabilities in every non-blue matchup (and some blue matchups).

[Cruel Ultimatum]

your getting ahead on cards because you are activating a land, and using it to play spells and are either getting the spells or your opponent is using counterspells and thus you are +cards.

Noone said riptide lab is good against shops, but people arent playing riptide lab to beat shops, and luckily for the riptide lab players, not many people are playing shops right now.

[diopter]

your getting ahead on cards because you are activating a land, and using it to play spells and are either getting the spells or your opponent is using counterspells and thus you are +cards.

You're activating a land, but when? Turn 5 right - because that's when you'd realistically have 7 mana to Regrow a Drain when you're not actually drawing into multiple Moxen due to lack of a way to do so.

Like take me through a typical curve here.
Turn 1 Land, Preordain
Turn 2 Land, Mox, Snap the Preordain EOT
Turn 3 The Lab, Mox, hold up mana for counters.

I'm being pretty generous here with your mana drops. You expect me to believe you have the gas to break the blue mirror at this point? You have 2 lands that tap for colors, and your opponent has Confidant or is about to try Gush with Force/Duress backup. The other stuff in your hand is going to determine the game, not your lab. You might even be hurt by it as Drain/Pierce may no longer be an option, or possibly you weren't able to get Red for REB.

Another curve, Preordainless.

Turn 1 Land counter something
Turn 2 Land Mox, snapcast the counter
Turn 3 Lab.

A little less generous here with your mana drops. The game's still not about the Lab. When will it be about the Lab? Even if your opponent passes and you are able to lab the snap mage, when will that translate into flashback for value again? Turn 5? You may be dead or horribly behind then.

If you expect to Lab, it's going to cost you. It's going to be a give and take of openings to end the game, either he will give you an opening to Lab because he's afraid to walk into your wall, or you will give him an opening to tutor for Tinker or Will and play it as you won't have the gas to actually Lab and he'll know it (from the size of your hand and the looks of your yard). It's not "a better LoA". It's a 50/50 strategy and that's awful if you actually want to win.

If the game goes long then there a number of cards and card combinations, Lab + Mage included, which can give you the upper hand. That doesn't happen on turn 3.

And I'm not even talking about the fetch-lab-5-other-stuff hands that are unkeepable.

[bluemage55]

You don't need bombs. Getting back a duress when you know there's a target is usually very strong, as well as flusterstorm and misstep.

1UB for a 2/1 with come-into-play Duress doesn't seem amazing for a control deck, though misstep does seem better.

[Daenyth]

You don't need bombs. Getting back a duress when you know there's a target is usually very strong, as well as flusterstorm and misstep.

1UB for a 2/1 with come-into-play Duress doesn't seem amazing for a control deck, though misstep does seem better.

After you've already duressed them once and are holding a fluster/force/misstep/whatever in hand, it's completely fine.

[diopter]

Why not just play two duresses?

How many "good stuff" cards actually get flashed back? 3 mana Preordian is inviting trouble*. AR, Brainstorm, Time Walk and DT are awesome though. Topdeck tutors times two is cute but dies to any response (so you'd have to wait for one of those openings again, once more a give and take situation).

The common scenario is flashing back 0-1 mana disruptors like Missteps and Flusterstorms, I do not think paying 2 mana more for said disruption for the chance for flexibility is inherently worth it in this environment.

*Which reminds me, you can't snap Preordain EOT which means it's just even worse of a play for a permission heavy deck, and makes the first curve I thought about up there total balls instead of marginal balls.

[nineisnoone]

I didn't play snaps this weekend, but from what I've seen of people who did, and what I've tested online, riptide lab is win-more. Using him once is plenty.

Riptide Laboratory breaks the blue mirror match if the game isn't over by turn three.  Its essentially just a better Library of Alexandria.

I wouldn't say that it breaks the mirror, it's not that strong. It does give you inevitability though. Plus, it creates serious problems for Jace since he can attack him with impunity since it would be dumb to bounce him back into your hand.

As far as costing too much, since it's a land it doesn't cost anything. I don't really see how you can argue that it is a negative (barring potential color issues), since all you do is create a threat for free. That is something the opponent has to respect and address. Whether or not it's the correct decision to use it, is a play-decision but that is separate than a card evaluation.