[Innistrad] - Snapcaster Mage

[bisamratte]

I wonder if tinker is needed.Tinker has dis-synergy with snapcaster mage.In my build I don't run tinker,tendrils.Win conditions are only 10 creatures and 3 jaces.Becuz every turn's sober attack or jace+2 leads me victory.I can dominate the board if I play snapcaster suitably.

Why is Tinker/Snapcaster Mage a dissynergy?

Playing Tendrils makes the Deck much faster. You can easily win with a small Tendrils after beating 2 turns. I really like Jace a lot, but I think the Deck is much to fast to maximize Jace's use.
Beatdown and Jace only doesn't look quite reliable to me.

[Blue Lotus]

I'm playing 4 snapcaster 4 remand and loving every second of it. Its the best venser ever.

[Ten-Ten]

I'm playing 4 snapcaster 4 remand and loving every second of it. Its the best venser ever.

...now lets replace remand with memory lapse and add Riptide Lab in the mix and we have one spicy meatball! 
if only i owned snapcaster by now 

[brokenbacon]

if only i owned snapcaster by now 

QFT. This card looks like the nuts, and it seems I have to adjust to its presence in the current meta using alternate means since I don't have $120 to drop on a playset.....

[Troy_Costisick]

if only i owned snapcaster by now 

QFT. This card looks like the nuts, and it seems I have to adjust to its presence in the current meta using alternate means since I don't have $120 to drop on a playset.....

That's fine, since it's only about $80 to get a set now.

[brokenbacon]

Ooo tempting.....

[yespuhyren]

That's fine, since it's only about $80 to get a set now.

I remember when this was the price for a playset of revised birds of paradise!  Oh man.  Snapcaster is way better lol.  Type 2 players have it so good

In Vintage, I'd love to see a U/R Fish/Burn deck.  Ninja of the Deep Hours and Snapcaster = badassery at its best

[Saya]

yep bouncing snapcaster is awful:riptide,ninja,JaceTMS or Venser(that's only in Type2)

[bisamratte]

riptide,ninja or Venser (that's only in Type2)

Did I miss anything?

[Ten-Ten]

riptide,ninja or Venser (that's only in Type2)

Did I miss anything?

Jace, The mindsculptor and Venser, the sojourner are both legal in standard

[Stormanimagus]

riptide,ninja or Venser (that's only in Type2)

Did I miss anything?

Jace, The mindsculptor and Venser, the sojourner are both legal in standard

Jace, The Mind Sculptor is most decidedly NOT legal in Standard.

[gkraigher]

I'm thinking more along the lines of this as the core.  feel free to add colors and expand to this.  Blue counter control, that will always do something at the end of your opponents turn. 

4 snapcaster mage
4 mana drain
4 spell pierce
4 force of will
4 fact or fiction
4 accumulated  knowledge
2-4 jace the mindsculptor

[Lemnear]

You realize that you might want to Play some restricted spells and mana too? Playing FoF and Knowledge is far too much. Without them you'll still have enough SCM targets of value. Ancestral, Walk, Tutors, Tinker, pierce, etc. are better targets than knowledges.

[gkraigher]

Thanks for pointing out that the deck needs islands.  Maybe that's why I'm so bad at magic.

Accumulated knowledge is a terrible target for snapcaster mage.  fact of fiction is also pretty bad.  That's not what the deck intentions are.  Its just the core of a mono-blue control deck that waits to steal the momentum from an opponent during his or her end step.  

I'm thinking clique would also be a great addition to the deck.  I don't think the deck should run tinker either.  I'd match up my 12+counters to any blue based deck.  The problems all involve workshop based decks.  you can hate for dredge in the sideboard.  

I've been using steel sabatoge effectively in creature based blue decks.  Maybe main decking that is also the route.


4 snapcaster mage
4 mana drain
4 spell pierce
4 force of will
4 fact or fiction
4 accumulated  knowledge
2-4 jace the mindsculptor
1 ancestral recall
3 vendillion clique
1 mystical tutor
1 merchant scroll
1 echoing truth
1 hurkyl's recall
1 brainstorm
3 steel sabatoge

islands
fetchlands
sol ring, moxes, lotus
library of alexandria
riptide labratory

playing basic islands is very appealing to me considering the fact that i perceive MUD to be the worst matchup.

[Lemnear]

You missed my point: do you think that 20 mana sources including (non-Blue) artifact mana, libray and lab is nearly stable enough to support snapcaster -> drain or mana-hungry Cards like fact, jace and knowledge?

You already mentioned that your "core" has no synergy so I asked you why you suggest knowledge (and fact) to be part of the deck instead of focusing on burrying your opponent under multicasted walks, ancs, tinker and tutors?

Topic tinker: Why would you exclude the most dominant kill-condition in magic's histroy? Do you think 7 x/1 creatures are enough to win against every random deck out there?

[serracollector]

My snapcaster control deck, which one on Sunday in Columbus, has this as its counter base:

3 Snaps
3 Flusterstorm
3 Mental Misstep
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Spell pierce
4 Force of will

and a draw base of:

1 Acall
1 Time Walk
1 Ninja of Deep Hours
4 Standstill
1 brainstorm
1 Library of Alexandria
2 Jace the Mind Sculptor
 (+ 3 snaps also)

I have not missed drain at all.  This counter base/draw base, is cheap, effective, and works really well in a high Gush meta. Oh, and I DID include Tinker>Blight, running only 2 moxen, Sol ring, Lotus, and 4 Mishra's Factory, and never had a probelm casting it when i needed to.

[Phele]

My snapcaster control deck, which one on Sunday in Columbus, has this as its counter base:

3 Snaps
3 Flusterstorm
3 Mental Misstep
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Spell pierce
4 Force of will

... in a high Gush meta ...

Yes, this must be great in a Gush meta, but It should be an auto loss to workshops at least in game one. Waz up with the meta in your area, where are the good shop pilots? I cannot believe that everybody is running wild on Gush and Dredge in recent publications but no one cares how busted MUD is. It has won so many really big tournaments over all europe in the last couple of monts and it is pretty obvious how strong this deck is.

[serracollector]

Well In my particular deck I also ran maindeck Hurkyll's Recall, Lightning Bolt, Echoing Truth, and 4 Mishr'as Factorys/4 strips, which are all helpfuly g1, and side I have more bolts, shattering spree, and energy flux, Mud can easily be taken care of with this route.  Honestly my biggest "fear" with my deck is a first turn Tarmogoyf lol.

[Troy_Costisick]

My snapcaster control deck, which one on Sunday in Columbus, has this as its counter base:

3 Snaps
3 Flusterstorm
3 Mental Misstep
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Spell pierce
4 Force of will

and a draw base of:

1 Acall
1 Time Walk
1 Ninja of Deep Hours
4 Standstill
1 brainstorm
1 Library of Alexandria
2 Jace the Mind Sculptor
 (+ 3 snaps also)

I have not missed drain at all.  This counter base/draw base, is cheap, effective, and works really well in a high Gush meta. Oh, and I DID include Tinker>Blight, running only 2 moxen, Sol ring, Lotus, and 4 Mishra's Factory, and never had a probelm casting it when i needed to.

Did you ever wish you had 4 SCM in your deck?

[Phele]

... Mud can easily be taken care of with this route ...

I see, that you have usefull cards in this matchup, but "easily taken care of" is definately a wrong description. Without the full set of acceleration, lots of dead maindeck cards and mediocre solutions like Spree and Flux I see this an uphill battle against sphere.dec It is totally okay, to choose this kind of deck in the right meta and congratulations to your great result, but its definately not a good choice for a field with some competent Shop pilots.

[serracollector]

I understand that, but we still got Force of Will, and in a MUD meta, you would simply swap out the Flusterstorms for w/e artifact hate cards.  Which is wat  I do siding anyways.  Remember than the dead cards (3 fluster/3 mental misstep, barring welder) are all also pitch fodder for force at that point, and I run 3 basic lands, and Tinker.  Maybe not an easy matchup, especially g1, but I don't really see MUD as a problem for a SnapStill deck.  Thats wat so good about this deck, it can easily be changed to meta, while still keeping the same draw engine/recursion

[verduran]

So now that we've established Snapcaster is quite good, what do you guys think are the best ways of fighting him? Cards that remove the spell in the graveyard still leave you facing a 2/1 beater. Removing the beater after it hit the battlefield will not prevent your opponent casting an important instant or sorcery from the graveyard. So I guess countering mr. Snaps is the best way?

Counters
REB/Pyro
Spell Snare


Creature Removal
Fire/Ice
Darkblast
Lose Hope
Piracy Charm (also quite a good target for Snapcaster itself)

Graveyard Removal
Leyline of the Void
Coffin Purge
Ground Seal
Tormod's Crypt
Extirpate

Do you guys know any spells that arent counterspells that'll take care of Snapcaster entirely?

On a side note: Echoing truth should probably be in most decks running multiple mages. Beware of opponents responding by casting their own mages, though!

[H]

Do you guys know any spells that arent counterspells that'll take care of Snapcaster entirely?

All I can think of is Torpor Orb.  Unfortunately, that card is pretty poor versus the rest of the meta.

Besides that, Chalice of the Void on 2 is solid, but that can be a difficult option to take in a non-Workshop shell.

[verduran]

Torpor Orb actually doesnt stop Mage entirely; it just stops the CITP trigger, but doenst remove the 2/1 body.

It's too bad Yixlid Jailer's static ability doesn't nullify the CIPT trigger. That way, you'd have been able to stop the ability and trade bodies.

[serracollector]

@troy:  At first I did run 4 snapcasters, BUT I found by adding the 1 ninja of the deep hours, I not only got the CA from ninjitsu the ninja and drawing, but it also let me return a Snap, thus letting me use it twice, so from my testing:

3 snap + 1 Ninja = or > 4 snap

As far as an answer to Snap?  A good option I been testing is 1 Surgical Extraction Maindeck, or a few SB, as you please.  At first it would seem "illogical" to remove a restricted card such as Tinker/Acall etc, but with Snaps in mass, Surgical is good to make sure they don't get recast.  On top of that it can remove some 4 of's such as Dual lands, Gush, Snap, Lodestones, and so on.

[verduran]

If you happen to be on double black, I think Withered Wretch is a pretty good answer to Snapcaster, too. For green, Scavenging Ooze.

[bluemage55]

The problem with answering Snapcaster is that if you merely address the flashback, they still get a 2/1 Flash body.  Likewise, merely answering the creature doesn't negate the advantage gained by the flashback.

Thus, any answers against merely the flashback or the creature also have to have other benefits or cantrip to be reasonably effiicient.  Countering Snapcaster completely obviously sidesteps this issues; thus, REB/Pyro and Spell Snare are probably the strongest options.  Nihil Spellbomb is the most effective solution to the flashback, as it is cheap, cantrips, and solid in other matchups (notably Dredge).

[policehq]

If one were going to try and make a Snapcaster Mage/High Tide deck, what would be the best kill card? Brain Freeze doesn't seem like a very good option because of BSC, Emrakul, the Innistrad Krosan Reclamation, etc.

[bluemage55]

If one were going to try and make a Snapcaster Mage/High Tide deck, what would be the best kill card? Brain Freeze doesn't seem like a very good option because of BSC, Emrakul, the Innistrad Krosan Reclamation, etc.

Tendrils is the only other primary kill that makes sense, since High Tide is a storm deck.  Tendrils also synergizes with Snapcaster beats.

Running Tinker/BSC, Key-Vault, and Jace would make for good back-up win conditions.  Jace in particular has excellent synergy with Tiago and excess blue mana.

f all else fails, Snapcaster beats can certainly end the game, especially considering that you will likely run Snap and can therefore clear the board if needed.

[Troy_Costisick]

If one were going to try and make a Snapcaster Mage/High Tide deck, what would be the best kill card? Brain Freeze doesn't seem like a very good option because of BSC, Emrakul, the Innistrad Krosan Reclamation, etc.

Draw your deck.  Play Key/Vault and/or Tinker.  One potential advantage of a High Tide is that you can go mono-blue and have a super stable mana base.  Just add in lots of cantrips to replace the black tutors you lose.