Laboratory Maniac

[The Atog Lord]

Well, those Innistrad spoilers keep coming out. And while the first wave hadn't impressed me, they're starting to reveal some fairly awesome blue creatures.

While I don't know if this fellow will ever be tournament-worthy, he's awesome enough that he might be worth trying.

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ftl/159

Laboratory Maniac
2U
2/2
Human Wizard
If you would draw a card while your library has no cards in it, you win the game instead.

Now, THAT is a new ability. Will this card be tech against opponents trying to deck you? Maybe. Can you build a new combo deck around Mr Maniac and his good friend Demonic Consultation? I'm sure you can. Vintage and Legacy both have no shortage of ways to deck yourself, that Ice Age uncommon being the easiest.

But I just wonder if his best use might be as a win condition in Dredge. No need to attack, no need to even have Bridges remaining in your graveyard. Just use your usual mechanisms to deck yourself, but play this guy first. You've won the game, no matter what Blazing Archon and Peacekeeper have to say about things.

Overall, this is a very cool, very flavorful Magic card.

[Stormanimagus]

What about Oath of Druids with him as your singleton creature?

[Stormanimagus]

Or even a specialized Fish list like this:


Laboratory Experiment

Land (17):
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Forest
2 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts (5):
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald

Creatures (14):
4 Dark Confidant
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Laboratory Maniac
4 Divining Witch

Instants (17):
4 Force Of Will
4 Daze
2 Steel Sabotage
3 Mental Misstep
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm

Sorceries (7):
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor

Sideboard
2 Steel Sabotage
3 Flusterstorm
1 Cabal Therapy
4 Leyline Of The Void
2 Yixlid Jailer
3 Trygon Predator

Might be interesting to try and steal game 1's with the sheer power of the combo and then board to control the stack and make sure to power it through vs. Blue while boarding your dredge hate and your 4 Predator vs. Shops. Perhaps the green splash is not needed and you could simply add Hurkyl's Recall vs. Shops?

-Storm

[LotusHead]

Aren't there some crazy cephalid cards that combo with this?

[evouga]

I'm really excited about this card. 2U is quite castable in Vintage, and I'm confident some kind of playable combo is possible with this guy.

Divining Witch/Demonic Consultation is of course one possible avenue, but there are other intriguing possibilities: Paradigm Shift, for instance, or Hermit Druid, and of course Doomsday piles.

[Troy_Costisick]

They're talking about him comboing with Leveler in Legacy and Modern.  Ho-hum.  If something goes wrong, you're screwed.

[MaximumCDawg]

This dude does have possibilities.  His best combo buddies in Vintage are probably: Demonic Consultation, Divining Witch, and Hermit Druid.  Hermit Druid shell has the advantage of letting you pull hate out of the enemy's hand before you reaminate the Maniac, but requires you to run five useless cards: 4x narcos and 1x dread return.  Plus, if you therapy them, you have to pass the turn before winning.

Divining Witch, however, I like a whole lot.  It's not terrible even without the Maniac, since it can search out the Maniac or an answer itself.  It does not really give you the cabal therapy option, but why not just be proactive and hit em anyway?  I, for one, will absolutely be trying a Dark Times shell with these guys.  Something like this as a core:

3x Laboratory Maniac
4x Divining Witch
3x Snapcaster Mage (works great with duress effects)
1x Demonic Consultation

4x Duress
4x Thoughtseize
4x Spell Pierce
4x Force of Will

[Eastman]

Right now hermit druid runs Sutured Ghoul + Lord of Extinction + Dragon Breath as its kill (reanimate ghoul, remove lord, attach breath).  If you could find one card that forced you to draw a card after the reanimate, it would be a smaller package and thus better.  Deep Analysis would work, although the extra 1U cost might not be worth having a slightly smaller kill package.  Of course even if you can't case the anal, you could always win the following turn.  

In any event the suggested kill package for hermit druid would be: 3-4 Narcomoeba, 1 Dread Return, 1 Lab Maniac, 1 Deep Analysis.

[MaximumCDawg]

Can't Deep Analysis go up in card count?  It's a good card on its own merits.

[quicksilvervii]

Savage sideboard tech against painterstone/obeyline.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Savage sideboard tech against painterstone/obeyline.

And as likely to be run on those grounds as Backlash.  Or Act of Aggression or Threaten.  BSC is very common and the decks that don't use it still tend to cast creatures.  Yet, here we are with nobody sideboarding in ways to turn BSC on its owner.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

They're talking about him comboing with Leveler in Legacy and Modern.  Ho-hum.  If something goes wrong, you're screwed.

^this is pretty funny. You need a ton of support to make sure this dude doesn't just get punishing fired off the map.

[Stormanimagus]

@Eastman -- The problem with the Hermit Druid approach is that you are susceptible to the same gy hate people pack in their SB's for dredge. Your win con also involves many dead slots in the form of narcos. I suppose you could argue that Divining Witch is a dead slot in my list, but I'd like to think that tutoring for a 4-of isn't dead even if they've, say, meddling maged the maniac. I do think that, while it is weird to see a heretofore unplayable card become playable all of the sudden, 3-4x Divining Witch and 1 Demonic Consultation is that way to go. The Combo basically costs 7 mana (3 for Maniac and 4 for Witch with an activation) and 1 card in hand after both resolve. This may sound like a lot compared to Painter/Grindstone or Vault/Key except that both of those die to Artifact hate and Null Rod/Phyrexian Revoker. This combo is just creatures and can be a little easier to protect for that reason. A lot of the creature removal out there is also 1 CMC (D-Blast, STP, Path to Exile) so Mental Misstep could be a solid option. I really think that since this is an all-out combo deck you mainly want control elements and the combo and you actually don't need things like a green splash for Trygon when you could just Hurkyl's and set up for the win. Here's the 2-color version of such a deck that I'd run so far. Haven't thought out a SB plan so the numbers might be way off at the moment.

Laboratory Experiment

Land (17):
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
4 Underground Sea
3 Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts (5):
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mana Crypt

Creatures (11):
4 Dark Confidant
4 Laboratory Maniac
3 Divining Witch

Instants (18):
4 Force Of Will
4 Daze
2 Steel Sabotage
4 Mental Misstep
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Vampiric Tutor

Sorceries (9):
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor

Sideboard
2 Steel Sabotage
3 Flusterstorm
4 Leyline Of The Void
2 Yixlid Jailer
2 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Island
1 Dismember

[MaximumCDawg]

If you're only running Cabal Therapies as hand disruption, why bother with Snapcaster Mage at all....?

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

alternative to flame-kin in dredge?

[Stormanimagus]

If you're only running Cabal Therapies as hand disruption, why bother with Snapcaster Mage at all....?

Yeah, Snapcaster Mage is probably superfluous in this sort of deck as you basically want to disrupt now and not later. However, your assessment is wrong as you can respond to a spell with Snapcaster and use one of your 1CMC counters in response (Steel Sabotage, Mental Misstep or Flusterstorm). Snapcaster is especially synergistic with Flusterstorm as you are guaranteed a minimum of Storm 3 when you use Snapcaster in response to a spell. So, Just sayin.

[Troy_Costisick]

alternative to flame-kin in dredge?

That would let you get rid of Bridge from Below and go for a pure dredge win.  Nice thinking!

[Stormanimagus]

alternative to flame-kin in dredge?

That would let you get rid of Bridge from Below and go for a pure dredge win.  Nice thinking!

How Exactly?

[Bill Copes]

alternative to flame-kin in dredge?

That would let you get rid of Bridge from Below and go for a pure dredge win.  Nice thinking!

How Exactly?

By eschewing the aggro plan and building a deck that purely dredges.  Fatestitchers and Cephalid colosseums would probably be cornerstones.

[quicksilvervii]

Savage sideboard tech against painterstone/obeyline.

And as likely to be run on those grounds as Backlash.  Or Act of Aggression or Threaten.  BSC is very common and the decks that don't use it still tend to cast creatures.  Yet, here we are with nobody sideboarding in ways to turn BSC on its owner.

And this, is why the internet needs a sarcasm font.

[tooMuchCoffeeMan]

Am I missing something?

Wouldn't this be more suited for Doomsday? Doomsday for: frantic searchx4 and ancestral. 

[MaximumCDawg]

alternative to flame-kin in dredge?

That would let you get rid of Bridge from Below and go for a pure dredge win.  Nice thinking!

How Exactly?

By eschewing the aggro plan and building a deck that purely dredges.  Fatestitchers and Cephalid colosseums would probably be cornerstones.

That doesn't sound any faster than dredge currently is.  In fact, it sounds a few turns slower.  Is Dredge really having enough trouble with Propoganda / Ghostly Prison / Elephant Grass / whatever to justify this?

Am I missing something?

Wouldn't this be more suited for Doomsday? Doomsday for: frantic searchx4 and ancestral.  

Well Doomsday isn't great because you have to land the Maniac first and then Doomsday.  Hermit Druid and Divining Witch both are one-card combos; untap with them and you go fetch the win.  Hermit gets there faster, since you can D.Return the Maniac and then flashback Deep Anal.  Doomsday into Ancestral, Lotus, Probe, Probe, and Maniac works though.

Or, better yet, work Doomsday into your Divining Witch list as an alternative win condition

[emidln]

Am I missing something?

Wouldn't this be more suited for Doomsday? Doomsday for: frantic searchx4 and ancestral. 

Doomsday immediately wins the game already for 3-4 total mana. Why would you want to play this junk in a streamlined Tinker/Doomsday deck?

[tooMuchCoffeeMan]

Am I missing something?

Wouldn't this be more suited for Doomsday? Doomsday for: frantic searchx4 and ancestral. 

Doomsday immediately wins the game already for 3-4 total mana. Why would you want to play this junk in a streamlined Tinker/Doomsday deck?

If you're going to run tinker you're better off playing gush/bob.  Frantic search at least helps sculpt your hand or dig for the cards you need to go off for "free."  Ancestral is never a junk card.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Am I missing something?

Wouldn't this be more suited for Doomsday? Doomsday for: frantic searchx4 and ancestral.  

Doomsday immediately wins the game already for 3-4 total mana. Why would you want to play this junk in a streamlined Tinker/Doomsday deck?

Well, it *replaces* certain piles.

Ie. Gush into:
Ancestral
Lotus Petal
Black Lotus
Laboratory Maniac
Yawg Will

    OR

Ancestral
Black Lotus
Mana Crypt
Laboratory Maniac
Any 1 CMC or less blue draw spell/Pact of Negation if you already have one in hand.

Wins for no additional mana, through any life total on either side, with no dependence on storm, through True Believer/Gaddock Teeg.  In addition, Maniac + Demonic Consultation isn't *awful* to have main.

[Meddling Mike]

This is a really interesting card. I can't quite see a great home for it right now, but I can see the potential. It would seem tough to cram this into a traditional Dredge shell since it's kind of tough to see it being better than existing options. Like, the situation where it's better than either an Iona/Sun Titan/Flame-Kin Zealot seems a bit too narrow. You're able to dredge out your deck but can't just win otherwise? Maybe if all your bridges got removed without enough tools to finish the job on the board? Maybe a revamped version like Bill was talking about would be a better shell, but it's tough to say right now. Either way I'd be getting four and waiting for the Brain Freeze kill to become popular again.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

This is a really interesting card. I can't quite see a great home for it right now, but I can see the potential. It would seem tough to cram this into a traditional Dredge shell since it's kind of tough to see it being better than existing options. Like, the situation where it's better than either an Iona/Sun Titan/Flame-Kin Zealot seems a bit too narrow. You're able to dredge out your deck but can't just win otherwise? Maybe if all your bridges got removed without enough tools to finish the job on the board? Maybe a revamped version like Bill was talking about would be a better shell, but it's tough to say right now. Either way I'd be getting four and waiting for the Brain Freeze kill to become popular again.

There are tons of situations where it’s better than Iona for sure. It potentially ends the game immediately, no lucky top deck option for opponent. Though I assume you use the, now standard, sun titan plan to get to that end. Why is it better than flame-kin? Might not be without some radicle rebuilding, but it does get around some hate cards people bring in. It’ll take some clever building and unique ideas for sure.

[Meddling Mike]

There are tons of situations where it’s better than Iona for sure. It potentially ends the game immediately, no lucky top deck option for opponent. Though I assume you use the, now standard, sun titan plan to get to that end. Why is it better than flame-kin? Might not be without some radicle rebuilding, but it does get around some hate cards people bring in. It’ll take some clever building and unique ideas for sure.

I haven't checked up on the rulings of this card, but it seems like in some ways this card is more vulnerable to lucky topdecks than Iona. Usually you can name blue to avoid getting your Iona bounced. If they have a bounce removal spell and you deck yourself trying to win with Laboratory Maniac you might end up losing the game in response to your bazaar activation. Basically, this guy does nothing to protect himself whatsoever.

[emidln]

Am I missing something?

Wouldn't this be more suited for Doomsday? Doomsday for: frantic searchx4 and ancestral.  

Doomsday immediately wins the game already for 3-4 total mana. Why would you want to play this junk in a streamlined Tinker/Doomsday deck?

If you're going to run tinker you're better off playing gush/bob.  Frantic search at least helps sculpt your hand or dig for the cards you need to go off for "free."  Ancestral is never a junk card.

There's no reason you can't play all of the gushbond components that the Reflection Gush Storm list plays and skip out on slightly more random win conditions (e.g. desire) for Doomsday).

@ AD
The two most common Doomsday piles win for no mana post Doomsday (Gush into Recall/Lotus/Petal/Will/Tendrils) and one mana post Doomsday (Recall/Lotus/Ritual/Will/Tendrils). Avoiding bounceable hatebears doesn't exactly impress me given that the card is a 100% dead draw while turning on bounce/fire/dismember against you. Consultation can randomly destroy your deck that is built around finding/cheating the 5 best cards in your deck onto the stack. If you want to run situational/awkward stuff, the lists floating around storm boards already skip out on Desire, R&D, Bargain, and Timetwister. Also worth noting is that you can beat Hatebears even without running a chain of vapor maindeck Doomsday for Tinker plan.

Being able to avoid a storm kill is something Tinker already does and a Gush Storm deck doesn't really need to avoid the storm kill anyway.

[AmbivalentDuck]

@ AD
The two most common Doomsday piles win for no mana post Doomsday (Gush into Recall/Lotus/Petal/Will/Tendrils) and one mana post Doomsday (Recall/Lotus/Ritual/Will/Tendrils). Avoiding bounceable hatebears doesn't exactly impress me given that the card is a 100% dead draw while turning on bounce/fire/dismember against you. Consultation can randomly destroy your deck that is built around finding/cheating the 5 best cards in your deck onto the stack. If you want to run situational/awkward stuff, the lists floating around storm boards already skip out on Desire, R&D, Bargain, and Timetwister. Also worth noting is that you can beat Hatebears even without running a chain of vapor maindeck Doomsday for Tinker plan.

Being able to avoid a storm kill is something Tinker already does and a Gush Storm deck doesn't really need to avoid the storm kill anyway.

I agree with everything you said.  I was responding to what appeared to be a miscommunication: you wouldn't cast Maniac followed by Doomsday to deck yourself.  You'd incorporate it into a pile.  While it does make you susceptible to an entire class of hate that didn't matter before, it also dodges Teeg and graveyard dependence (see edited post above).  I wouldn't play ritual combo in the present meta much less add random vulnerability to critter removal, but it's now something to keep in the back of your mind.