Innistrad - past in flames

[marcb]

Past in flames 3
?
Instants or sorceries in your graveyard gain flashback until end of turn.
Edit: Each instant or sorcery card in your graveyard gains flashback until end of turn. Flashback cost equals mana cost.
Flashback 4

Seems pretty sick since any instants or sorceries cast from hand go to graveyard and can be recast.
Obvious downsides are casting cost and no lotus replay.

Edit: To update text which shows that it affects both instants and sorceries

[Bill Copes]

Aside from casting cost, I think one of the key factors here is:

Instants OR sorceries

. . . the lack of flexibility. It's definitely not a yawg will and requires much more set up to do anything.  Off the top of my head, I think an intuition based deck could fulfill this, but it will be inferior the current storm engines that are available.

[marcb]

It affects both instants and sorceries. The wording is there to prevent cards needing both the insant and sorcery card type. If it really wanted you to choose it would have said choose either instants or sorceries in your graveyard gain flashback.

[Bill Copes]

It affects both instants and sorceries. The wording is there to prevent cards needing both the insant and sorcery card type. If it really wanted you to choose it would have said choose either instants or sorceries in your graveyard gain flashback.

Then wouldn't it read:

Instants and sorceries in your graveyard gain flashback until end of turn.

?

[brokenbacon]

It affects both instants and sorceries. The wording is there to prevent cards needing both the insant and sorcery card type. If it really wanted you to choose it would have said choose either instants or sorceries in your graveyard gain flashback.

Then wouldn't it read:

Instants and sorceries in your graveyard gain flashback until end of turn.

?

QFT

[marcb]

I thought instants and sorceries would imply cards with type instant and sorcery as opposed to cards with either type instant or sorcery, but if I'm wrong and you have to choose then it is obviously much more limited than I thought.

edit: see edit in original post

[DubDub]

So this is pretty crazy... in Commander.

A huge part of Yawgmoth's Will is replaying lands (especially under fastbond), artifacts (discarded Moxen or a Vault combo piece), and alternate costs.  This is useless in Gush combo, better in Ritual combo (though needing   stinks), and best, for Vintage, in Belcher.

But yeah, sick in Commander.

Oh, and also, I was looking at buying into  / Combo for Modern, this card could push it over the top.

[Eastman]

Wow.  Obviously close enough to yawg will to be interesting.  Especially with the red mana spells like rite of flame and seething song, I think this could lead to a red-heavy storm deck with rituals and seething songs.  In TPS or something storm based this is a lot like yawg will.  Not so much in a vault/key list where the inability to replay artifacts and lands is a big dent.

To point out another rules point, I'm not sure that it works as the original post said with regard to:

any instants or sorceries cast from hand go to graveyard and can be recast

 It seems to me that it gives all instants/sorceries in the GY at the time it is cast flashback, but would not effect instants or sorceries that go to the GY subsequently that turn.  

Still, this could produce a significantly faster storm deck than we are used to.  It works really well with cards like Gitaxian Probe and Manamorphose that generate card advantage when cast out of the yard while costing nothing.  I guess the goldfish on the following would be pretty dirty-- (just off the top of my head to indicate what I am thinking of - nowhere near polished)

32 Spells
4 Gitaxian Probe  (It is my understanding that the "mana cost" is phyrexian and can be paid with life even under past in flames.  I may be wrong though)
4 Manamorphose (both this and probe speed up the deck while adding great synergy with past in flames)
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Time Walk
1 Brainstorm
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Yawgmoth's Will
4 Past in Flames

4 Thoughtseize
2 Hurkyl's Recall

1 Tinker
1 Blighsteel


28 Mana- -
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
5 Moxen
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt

[nineisnoone]

Why run anything other than a minor red splash?  Going into those other cards just bogs down your deck. This is less of a reason to build a red storm deck than ETW was.

Oh yeah, and this thing is broke. 4x Yawgmoth for 4?  Yes, please. Sure you can't play non-instants or sorceries... but like half of those instants and sorceries are going to be able to tutor them into your hand, grab yawgmoth, draw them into your hand. so no worries.

Thankfully it's a 4, as I feel like that is slowed enough that it won't be too too crazy, but I definitely think this card is worth playing for ritual storm decks.

[Lemnear]

Depending on the exact wording and being a sorcery Legacy got it's own Yawgmoth's Will for TES! If you don't have to choose between Instant and sorcery you flood 7 mana, Play Burning Wish, cast Past in Flames and replay your Rite of Flames for insanity.

IF all this comes true and the rumored (by A. For.) banning of misstep in Legacy happens I'm finally able to play my Ajani Lost Eye Diamonds in tourneys! Hoooray!

(...I doubt it -__- )

[TheWhiteDragon]

This does seem like a mini-yawg will for red, if it gets sorceries AND instants.  I was thinking this is a strictly better recoup.  It can get both card types as opposed to just sorceries and only costs 1 more on the flashback in gifts piles.  Then you can also string spells as opposed to just casting 1.  In a gifts deck with rituals, this will allow you to replay your mana from the grave and speed up the gifts/past.

[TAF]

This card is not modal. It will hit both instants and sorceries, at sorcery speed. It will also only give the "temporary" bonus of Flashback to cards already in the graveyard, but if you have created enough mana and want to re-cast some cards put into your graveyard from your hand, library, or other zone, you can likewise just use this at its Flashback cost.

It has significant power restraints and increases over a Yawgmoth's Will, all of which have been discussed in this thread, and none of which (I feel) will truly matter if a deck is created to abuse it. Yawgmoth's Will is looking to get lands, artifacts, and all the other non-instant/non-sorcery cards because those decks have access to those cards. There are enough instants and sorceries available to abuse this card.

EDIT: Also, it should be noted, that the wording on this card will end up making a huge difference. If the final version reads "instants or sorceries IN your graveyard," then things from your hand or other zone will not gain Flashback; however, if it reads "instants or sorceries FROM your graveyard," then it should grant them Flashback, from what I can gather about card language and templating. Though, it appears that this is so far away even from the spoiled text, it should not matter.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

This does seem like a mini-yawg will for red, if it gets sorceries AND instants.  I was thinking this is a strictly better recoup.  It can get both card types as opposed to just sorceries and only costs 1 more on the flashback in gifts piles.  Then you can also string spells as opposed to just casting 1.  In a gifts deck with rituals, this will allow you to replay your mana from the grave and speed up the gifts/past.

I've been seeing the word "strictly" miss used a lot lately. For something to be strictly better it can’t cost more mana, as well as other things.

[TheWhiteDragon]

Timestamping should make the cards in your grave at the time this is cast gain flashback, not things put there afterwards.  Regardless, this is a super recoup on the verge of mini-will

[TheWhiteDragon]

I don't know if the 1 extra mana is a big difference.  Regrowth costs 2 and gets you 1 played card, yawg will costs 3 and gets you your entire graveyard.  Would you not say yawg will is "strictly" better, even though it costs 1 more?  Even if regrowth were 1B and yawg will 2B, would that still not be the case?

I'll go ahead and concede the point on "strictly" though.  I'll go as far as to say "superior in almost every aspect".

[Klep]

Timestamping should make the cards in your grave at the time this resolves gain flashback, not things put there afterwards.

Ftfy.

[TheWhiteDragon]

Thanks for the fix, Klep...exactly what I MEANT to say

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I don't know if the 1 extra mana is a big difference.  Regrowth costs 2 and gets you 1 played card, yawg will costs 3 and gets you your entire graveyard.  Would you not say yawg will is "strictly" better, even though it costs 1 more?  Even if regrowth were 1B and yawg will 2B, would that still not be the case?

I'll go ahead and concede the point on "strictly" though.  I'll go as far as to say "superior in almost every aspect".

No, no I wouldn't. I would say its a better card, but not a strictly better card.
Yes, one mana can make a huge difference.
Example: you have 3 mana and a recall in yard. which looks better, regrowth or will in hand? Note how will is not strictly better.

[Blue Lotus]

How can I play my bosium strips now?

[meadbert]

This card is insane!
EDIT:  So Rite of Flame seems to have some decent synergy.

Intuition for this guy and 2X Rite of flame.  They can give you Past in Flames in which case you get your 1cc higher YAwg with 2 Rituals in yard.

Otherwise they can give you a Red Dark Ritual allowing you to pay for Past in Flames with less mana which is even worse.

Imagine if you already had a Rite of Flame in the hand or the yard.

If you already have Past in Flames in the hand or yard then you grab 3 Rite of Flame.  Use the one in hand to generate  and then go off with Past in Flames.

Also, the fact that you can use Intuition to tutor for 3 cards after using Rite of Flame is huge.  Even if the new cards do not get Flashback, you can just Intuition for Tendrils, Past #2 + Ritual.

I am not sure to what degree Manamorphose would make sense.  Flashing it back is nice for free draw.

[voltron00x]

I don't think this is good enough for Vintage, although I suppose we'll see...

In Legacy, I already have a functional 60 that I'd consider playing in a tournament 

[meadbert]

I don't have anything yet.  At first I was thinking a controlish shell like DT or IT with Intuitions.  Now I am leaning a bit towards Belcher.

Basically you can play Summoner's Pact from the yard which is nice.  You get how ever many rituals you run + Summoner's Pacts.

The issue I have with Belcher is how do you support both Black and Red?

[madmanmike25]

Manamorphose, the Chromatics, Summoners Pact for Wild Cantor, and Mox Opal.  That's off the top of my head.

[meadbert]

Cantor is the best option.  Also, Culling the Weak is a strong possibility.  I believe that you can just flash him back for  without sacrificing a creature.

[madmanmike25]

Sacrificing the creature is an additional cost to cast Culling the Weak

[meadbert]

Sacrificing the creature is an additional cost to cast Culling the Weak

OP says "Flashback Cost = Mana Cost" which implies additional costs do not need to be payed.

[Stormanimagus]

Original FAQs on flashback:

The official rules for the flashback ability are as follows:
502.22. Flashback 502.22a Flashback is a static ability of some instant and sorcery cards that functions while the card is in a player's graveyard. The phrase "Flashback [cost]" means "You may play this card from your graveyard by paying [cost] rather than paying its mana cost. If you do, remove this card from the game instead of putting it anywhere else any time it would leave the stack." Playing a spell using its flashback ability follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 409.1b and 409.1f.
When you play a spell from your graveyard by paying its flashback cost, its mana cost doesn't change. You just pay the flashback cost instead.


Effects that cause you to pay more or less for a spell will cause you to pay that much more or less for its flashback cost, too. That's because they affect the total cost of the spell, not just its mana cost.


When a spell played with flashback resolves, it never goes to its owner's graveyard, so abilities that trigger on cards being put in a graveyard won't trigger. The card is removed from the game instead. Countered spells played with flashback are removed from the game, too.


Cards with the flashback ability have a gray tombstone icon in the upper left corner. This icon makes it easier for you to see which cards in your graveyard can be played again.

[madmanmike25]

So yeah, it makes sense.  If you cast Tinker, you still have to sacrifice an artifact according to this:  "Playing a spell using its flashback ability follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 409.1b and 409.1f."

Same is true for Culling then.  Pity.

[meadbert]

So much for Culling of the Weak.

Another nice synergy is with Flash and Summoner's Pact.  Basically you can Intuition for Past in Flames, Flash and Summoner's Pact.  In theory they should actually just give you Flash in which case you must pay  for Past in Flames, 0 for Summoner's Pact and then  for Flash for the win.  That is 7 mana after an Intuition to win.

Note that giving you Flash is risky since you Potentially have Hulk in hand.  If they give you Pact you could get a Spirit Guide to reduce the cost by 1, but then if Flash is countered you lose.

The problem is all the dead space Flash Needs for combo pieces and with only 1 Flash in the deck I do not think running multiple Protoean Hulks will work out.

[Darkenslight]

Past in Flames combos well with Pyromancer's Swath and Grapeshot.  Just sayin'.

Play with Draw 7s and you have the makings of a possibly hilarious combo deck.