Hard to Evaluate - Heartless Summoning

[AmbivalentDuck]

Heartless Summoning  
Enchantment   
Creature spells you cast cost  less to cast.
Creatures you control get -1/-1.
"They won't be winning any beauty pageants, but they'll do the trick."
-Enslow, ghoulcaller of Nephalia

There are a numbers of creatures that can be sacrified for mana or produce it when they come into play.  With this card in play, you'd have access to at least 4 cards (Priest of Gix, red Priest of Gix, Basal Sliver, Basal Thrull) that net you mana.  Combine that with, say, Imperial Recruiter x4, and you could have a costed "Demonic" Tutor that searches out more rituals or a storm entity kill.  Alternatively, consider that at , Trinket Mage can fetch Black Lotus, Mox Sapphire, and Skullclamp.

So, on its face, this card looks awful.  But there's almost certainly a modern/legacy storm combo deck based on it.  I have no clue if there's a vintage deck to the same effect, but this merits some thought.

[DubDub]

You lost the  in "cost  less to cast."

[Troy_Costisick]

You could play these creatures and draw a card for one or less mana as they ETB:

Oculus
Runed Servitor
Wall of Blossoms
Wall of Omens
Bonded Fetch
Council of Advisors
Elvish Visionary
Dream Thief
Merchant of Secrets
Noggle Ransacker
Phyrexian Rager

[Tobi]

Mulldrifter --> 2 cards for 

[Womba]

This is probably more for Modern but you have an infy damage loop with this, enduring renewal, and perilous myr....

[AmbivalentDuck]

This is probably more for Modern but you have an infy damage loop with this, enduring renewal, and perilous myr....

Yeah, seems a bit worse than Vault-Key.

The fact that Food Chain is also in Legacy and Vintage means 2 potential playsets of cost reduction.

[Aace]

Basically if you don't draw this or it gets countered, your deck would just be filled with subpar creatures...

[MaximumCDawg]

Heartless Summoning seems abusable. The cost is right, particularly for a ritual deck, and the effect is potentially powerful.  This is my thought process on building with it.  Any deck using Summoning has to do two things though:   

(1) It must function properly when you DON’T draw Heartless Summoning; and
(2) It must gain such a tremendous advantage when Summoning is online that it justifies the cost.
   
So, Enduring Renewal hijinks are probably not great.  In a Blightsteel world, Renewal does jackall for you by itself, and most of the creatures that combo with it are pretty bad.

I start by looking back at the Animar, Soul of Elements deck I made awhile back.  Animar’s effect is very similar to Heartless Summoning; both reduce colorless components of casting cost.  However, Animar is a threat on his own, and himself turns your cheap creatures into win conditions because they make him bigger.  Heartless is cheaper, doesn’t require as many colors, and the effect comes out strong immediately.  However, Heartless can’t win alone, and it shrinks your creatures.

So, when I was tinkering with Animar, three creatures in particular were all-stars when they got a cost reduction, and were totally decent even before the reduction: Spellstutter Sprite, Man’o’War, and Phyrexian Revoker.  Sprite seems pretty awful with Heartless; wipes any already in play and makes any more in your hand into Mental Missteps.  Revoker and Man’o’War still do their thing, but they are now 1/1, which seems bad.  Perhaps the normal small fishy creatures are NOT the way to go with Heartless.  I mean, heck, playing Heartless means you can’t even run Dark Confidant, and in you’re in black, for pete’s sake.

The other obvious way to go with Heartless is to use it to make already undercosted fatties super-duper undercosted.  So, how would that work?  Heartless makes:

(1) Abyssal Persecutor into a flying 5/5 for 2 - not too shabby!
(2) Juzam Djinn / Plague Sliver into a 4/4 for 2 - two-card combo for Tarmogoyf seems bad.
(3) Grinning Demon into a 5/5 for 2 - getting better, but still pretty bad.
(4) Rakdos Pit Dragon into a potential 2/2 flying, firebreathing, doublestrike for 2 - interesting...
(6) Balduvian/Pillaging Horde is 4/4 for 2, makes you discard - Dunno, seems meh.
(7) Lodestone Golem is a 4/2 for 2, but hurts you since you’re running non-artifacts.
(8) Canker Abomination is up to a 5/5 for 2 depending on enemy’s board... worse that Demon.
(9) Goblin Goon becomes 5/5 for 2, drawback might matter against Fish decks.
(10) Moroii becomes 3/3 flier for 2 who pings you... pretty bad.
(11) Nova Chaser makes a critter 9/1 for 2... but elementals suck.
(12) Phyrexian Vatmother is 3/4 infect for 2; but 3 now is a whole turn slower as a clock.
(13) Covetous Dragon is a 5/4 flier for 3... not terrible.      
(14) With 4 mana (split over 2 turns) Lord of Shatterskull Pass is a 5/5.  Eh...

...and considering evoke cards that are interesting without Heartless but get better with it...

(1) Ingot Chewer becomes Maniac Vandal - interesting because Chewer’s evoke is key early.
(2) Slithermuse becomes a 2/2 or a draw engine for 2 mana - okay, but pretty bad without reduction.
(3) Mulldrifter is a 1/1 flier drawing 2 cards for 2 - Seems like a lot of work for thoughtcast.
(4) Wispmare can stick around as a 0/2! Haha, this is awful.

... and other interesting possibilities that don’t currently see play...

(1) Dusk Urchins becomes 3/2 for B and is more likely to draw you cards. Playable as this, but probably not in it’s original state.
(2) Flametounge Kavu beomes 4/1 removal for 2.
(3) Magus of the Abyss becomes playable; 2cc 3/2 abyss effect.  Probably board only though.
(4) Marsh Crocodile becomes an interesting bounce engine, and a 3/3 for 2.

Among all of these options, I think three stand out.  In building these decks, I’m assuming we’re going budget here (if not, why mess with Heartless?)

(1) A ritual-fueled control deck featuring Persecutor and Demon.  Heartless simply functions here as acceleration.  The big problem here is you can’t use Dark Confidant, which is a HUGE drawback.  Perhaps start like this:

Creatures (11):   
4x Abyssal Persecutor (Finisher A)
4x Grinning Demon (Finisher B)
3x Man’o’War (Stops Blightsteel, bounces Percy, works with Heartless)

Accell (8):
4x Heartless Summoning
4x Dark Ritual

Disruption (19):
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Null Rod
3x Hymn to Torach (This card is so good I don’t know what the hell)
4x Flusterstorm (Stop early nutting out; you are slow)
4x Mental Misstep (Same)

Card Advantage (3):
3x Night’s Whisper (You can’t run Confidant)

Mana (19)
4x Polluted Delta
4x Underground Sea
3x Island
4x Swamp
1x Strip Mine
3x Wasteland

(2) A red-black dragon stompy deck going after hellbent.  Mostly red, so that Magus of the Moon doesn’t harm the deck much.  Again, Heartless functions basically as acceleration:

Creatures (16):
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon (maybe Genju of Spires in board against Oath)
4 Ingot Chewer

Accell (4):
4 Heartless Summoning

Disruption (19):
4 Null Rod
4 Chalice of the Void (Anti-power 9)
3 Blood Moon
4 Thoughtseize
4 Pyroblast (Helps get to Hellbent)
4 Lightning Bolt

Land (21):
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Badlands
4 City of Traitors
2 Ancient Tomb
3 Mountains
3 Swamp
1 Strip Mine

(3) A black-blue deck using Heartless to generate card advantage through unusual creatures:

Creatures (14):
4 Dusk Urchin (swings as either a 3/2 or 2/1 and then draws you some cards)
4 Snapcaster Mage (beater before Heartless, U regrowth afterwards)
4 Skinrender (kills fish dead and draws 3 off a Dusk Urchin)
2 Sower of Temptation (thwarts aggro and steals Blightsteel)

Accell (4):
4 Heartless Summoning
            
Disruption (16):
4 Null Rod      
4 Thoughtseize
2 Duress       (So many because these work well with Snappy)
3 Flusterstorm
4 Steel Sabotage   (so many so you have a way to address artifacts)
3 Diabolic Edict   

Card Advantage (6):
4 Scarscale Ritual (Great with Urchin, fun with Snappy- though heartless stops this interaction)
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder   

Land (16):
Whatever.   
      
None of the blue decks run Force since I don’t think they’ve enough blue to make it reliable. 

[tito del monte]

Kind of like the look of the Red/Black list - mainly as it packs so many Moon effects. Thinking about this card, I kind of imagined two things for it (probably both gash) - and the first would be some kind of prison deck.

Of course, you would only want to make some a prison deck (maybe with a whiff of 'Blax' to it) using this as your acceleration if you had a good reason not to run Workshop instead. And I suppose moon effects (or Contamination) would be a reason not to run Workshops. Similarly, as the card debuffs all your creatures, you're probably going to looking for some long, slow grinding way of winning - rather than say an aggro-control route as you pointed out (not only do you kill or your creatures; even if you didn't, you just couldn't really apply any pressure whatsoever if they all get -1/-1).

The other option that seems to be crying out is some hideously Byzantine combo, which would in no way stack up against Tendrils or Vault-key. Could be a bit Kobold-Clamp-esque, with stuff like Glimpse of Nature, Songs of the Damned and then a storm finish - or even Bitter Ordeal.

All no doubt horrendous ideas. But for  all that, I think the card is really well designed - definitely begging to be broken somehow, but a real sod to work with. And possibly no good to us with the current card pool...still, one to ponder!

How did the red/black deck play out Mr. CDawg?

[Smmenen]

I devoted 1 page of my 46 page set review to this card.   I won't spoil what I say there, but add a few remarks that I didn't say there.

The structure of Vintage is such that aren't accelerated out don't see play unless they cost 1, 2, 3, or 4 mana.  Spells that cost more than that are always accelerated out, with either Dark Ritual (Desire, Bargain, and Ad Naus) or Workshop (Trike, Hellkite, Karn, etc).  If neither Ritual nor Workshop were legal, none of those cards would be playable.

As a consequence, we don't evaluate or think about cards that would be playable with this.   The focus for designing with this card, as I say in my article, should be looking at creatures that cost 3-6 mana.  Tobi mentioned it, but cards like Mulldrifter are the ones that should be coming to mind. 

[MaximumCDawg]

As a consequence, we don't evaluate or think about cards that would be playable with this.   The focus for designing with this card, as I say in my article, should be looking at creatures that cost 3-6 mana.  Tobi mentioned it, but cards like Mulldrifter are the ones that should be coming to mind.  

That's true, but if you do that you're potentially packing a series of cards that are really, really bad without Heartless.  That seems like a recipie for disaster.  I'll read your article, though, once it gets linked!

How did the red/black deck play out Mr. CDawg?

I'll let you know once I get my Heartlesses in the mail and try it out

[madmanmike25]

If you can make a deck with Heartless Summoning, Blood Funnel, AND Carnival of Souls.....you win.   Not just the game, but in life as well.  Richard Garfield will appear and knight you right on the spot.

But seriously, casting Braids reliably on turn 2-3 seems pretty decent to me.  Pair it with the new Liliana and maybe you got sumthin'.

P.s. Blood funnel is another way to sack Abbyssal Persecutor.

P.p.s.  Priest of Gix and Priest of Urabrask still trigger essentially giving you +8 Rituals.  Decent?

[tito del monte]

But seriously, casting Braids reliably on turn 2-3 seems pretty decent to me.  Pair it with the new Liliana and maybe you got sumthin'.

Yup, that's who I had in mind! Not sure what other disruptive creatures you could pack in as well... Lodestone Golem's a nonbo... but Anowan? Or Magus of the Abyss? Herald of Leshrac? Possibly that new dude, Bloodgift Demon for draw.

Wow.. it's just like building a black EDH deck. Mad fun!

Or you use Braids, fetchs and Mulldrifters and what not to fuel Bitter Ordeal... win more probably, but it's a sick card!

EDIT: Just another terrible idea while I'm at it: Follow up Braids with Easter of Days for maximum fun times. Include some pitch counters in deck like Misstep to beat spot removal (even Spellskite?).... and you might make it back to your turn not dead.

[madmanmike25]

Both Antwon and Magus seem pretty good.  I think I'll tinker with the Priest idea too for a combocentric deck.

Here's something neato;  Heartless Summoning and Grinning Ignus can net you +1 colorless mana.  It's not infinite unless you can get an extra R mana since you need to cast and activate the Ignus.  Anyone have ideas?

[MaximumCDawg]

But seriously, casting Braids reliably on turn 2-3 seems pretty decent to me.  Pair it with the new Liliana and maybe you got sumthin'.

Yup, that's who I had in mind! Not sure what other disruptive creatures you could pack in as well... Lodestone Golem's a nonbo... but Anowan? Or Magus of the Abyss? Herald of Leshrac? Possibly that new dude, Bloodgift Demon for draw.

Wow.. it's just like building a black EDH deck. Mad fun!

Or you use Braids, fetchs and Mulldrifters and what not to fuel Bitter Ordeal... win more probably, but it's a sick card!

EDIT: Just another terrible idea while I'm at it: Follow up Braids with Easter of Days for maximum fun times. Include some pitch counters in deck like Misstep to beat spot removal (even Spellskite?).... and you might make it back to your turn not dead.

All good, but what happens when Heartless is NOT in play?  Resolving Heartless is not an instant-win, so the deck can't gear solely towards resolving it.  Are these cards worth playing without Heartless?  Maybe Bloodgift and the Demonic-Tutor-with-Legs guy from M12 are.

Also: will you please sell me an altered Eater of Days that has a bunny outfit and is re-named "Easter of Days?"

[policehq]

I'll admit it's interesting to look through Gatherer for cmc=3-5 creatures of 2 toughness or greater, but I still haven't uncovered anything that would excite the Vintage competitor.

Interesting points, I guess:
Loaming Shaman
Cunning Lethemancer/Braids
[I wish..] Phyrexian Soulgorger
Raven Familiar

[SadDubs]

this card is telling me to play lots of colorless one or two drops just so they can die. idunno just a thought

[tito del monte]

@saddubs: Yup, I'm just doing a bit of Gatherer searching in that direction - wondering if there's some way to basically chain Perilous Myrs, Pearce Striders and Myr Retrivers for enough damage (I guess this would involve Glimpse - and then playing all your dead Perlious Myrs from the graveyard again... all in one improbable turn....)

@MaximumCDAwg: I admit I took Steve's intervention as carte blanche to think of overcoasted creatures to play! Including the Easter of Days

EDIT: Anyway, I'm getting over-excited thinking about really janky Magic cards. Think I need a herbal tea and a lie down.

[MaximumCDawg]

Yeah, we don't want to really discuss total jank cards.  We want something that is decent without Heartless and backbreaking with it; or something that just flat out WINS in combination with Heartless, but doesn't have 5 different parts to disrupt and gobble up space in the deck.

Braids is pretty close to a win if she comes down early, but isn't Smokestack just better?  I dunno, maybe folks like me without Mishra's Workshop really want to be able to run a stacks-type list. Lodestone, Braids, Glowrider, Suppression Field, etc? That's kind of interesting.  In this kind of deck, Heartless IS your Mishra's Workshop.  That is, it reduces your casting costs by 2, just like Shop puts your mana production up by 2.  Maybe something like this...?

Creatures (14)
4 Lenonin Arbiter
4 Glowrider
3 Lodestone Golem
3 Braids, Cabal Minion

Accel (8)
4 Heartless Summoning
4 Dark Ritual

Card Draw (3)
3 Night's Whisper

Disruption (17)
4 Stony Silence
3 Suppression Field
4 Thoughtseize
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Revoke Existence

Lands (20)
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
3 Swamp
2 Plains

EDIT: Below comments reminded me that Glowrider is a 2/1, so you probably want to run some other disruptive element.  Arbiter is a 2/2 though, so thats still fine.

[vaughnbros]

this kills glowrider so i dont think you really want to combine it with white.  magus of the moon is best when played on turn 1 which summoning doesnt help you accomplish so you dont really want to combine it with red.  The whole trinket mage getting turned into a 1/1 and letting u fetch out skullclamp seems pretty sick, you could also run mulldrifter with it.  neither card is horrible without the summoning either.  if u also throw braids in this deck you could get a blue/black fish style deck with crazy amounts of card advantage.

[SadDubs]

but arbiter and rider die when the summoning is on the table...

Personally I dont see what this does that 8 tomb/city does already do. If you really want the accel run additional dark rits for mega-mana.

edit: you beat me to the punchline vaughnbros

[MaximumCDawg]

The whole trinket mage getting turned into a 1/1 and letting u fetch out skullclamp seems pretty sick, you could also run mulldrifter with it.  neither card is horrible without the summoning either. 

This, I can get behind.  Running Mulldrifter as a Diviniation that occasionally acts like Thoughtcast seems pretty bad.  But running an artifact tutor that can occasionally turn into Thoughtcast or better seems really good... hmm....

[tito del monte]

For what it's worth, going in the Braids direction, this is as far as I got goldfishing. Think with Braids, it's probably better off mono-black. But if there's a Mulldrfiter/Trinket Mage/Clamp deck there out with Hearltess Summoning, I want to see it!

anyway - maybe this will give someone some ideas, even if it is fairly horrendous:

4 Heartless Summoning

3 Myr Superion
3 Eater of Days
4 Phyrexian Rager
4 Braids, Cabal Minion

4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach

1 Demonic Consultation
4 Mental Misstep
4 Dark Ritual

1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Necropotence
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Tendrils of Agony

7 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Strip Mine

1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus

[MaximumCDawg]

4 Heartless Summoning

3 Myr Superion
3 Eater of Days
4 Phyrexian Rager
4 Braids, Cabal Minion

4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach

1 Demonic Consultation
4 Mental Misstep
4 Dark Ritual

1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Necropotence
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Tendrils of Agony

7 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Strip Mine

1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus

Once you're as far as using Eater and Briads, does it make sense to use Sundial to avoid the ill effects on yourself?

Also, once you talk about Myr Superion my mind goes immedately to Transmute Artifact.  Is there a deck here:

4 Myr Superion
4 Trinket Mage
1 Skullclamp
4 Transmute Artifact
4 Heartless Summoning

And other stuff?  I worry that Myr Superion, under Heartless, is just a Tarmogoyf you had to work really hard to play.

[tito del monte]

Once you're as far as using Eater and Briads, does it make sense to use Sundial to avoid the ill effects on yourself?

Also, once you talk about Myr Superion my mind goes immedately to Transmute Artifact.  Is there a deck here:

4 Myr Superion
4 Trinket Mage
1 Skullclamp
4 Transmute Artifact
4 Heartless Summoning

And other stuff?  I worry that Myr Superion, under Heartless, is just a Tarmogoyf you had to work really hard to play.

I'm perfectly happy to concede that Myr Superion is pretty bad, but when I was gold-fishing (I know, I know... ) without him things felt a bit threat light.

I'm not sure about Sundial - seems pretty fiddly. But the idea of using Myr Superions as sacrifice is cool: Sticking in mono-black, you could actually play Diablic Intent rather than Transmute Artifact to steadily set up Summoning + 2 Myr Retrievers for infinite storm. You Superions stick around as walls or whatever - which you can bring back once sacrificed via Intent with the first Retriever you fetch.

Whether then you'd just run normal disruption like say Null Rod or the new Lilian over Braids is also an issue. But you could, if you really focused on Braids also sac Eaters of Days to Diabolic Intent to start fetching your retrievers, and recast him again to keep the Braids pain up. Kind of wish he just time-walked you once though... :/

Something Blue/Black running Trinket/Mulldrifter/Clamp probably looks way different than this - and it's entirely possible I should just take my pile over to the Legacy tables and stop fouling up the king of formats!

EDIT: I know I said I'd contributed my last bad idea to this thread, but actually I was lying. I'm goldfishing B/R/u Allies... and it's kind of whacky. Which way to the casual forum? Thanks....

[goober]

Magus of the Future might be fun.  UUU for a lot of potential card advantage, especially when combined with Top.  Not sure it is worth it, just throwing it out there.

[meadbert]

Magus of the Future might be fun.  UUU for a lot of potential card advantage, especially when combined with Top.  Not sure it is worth it, just throwing it out there.

Also you could run Trinket Mage which is ideally costed for Heartless Summoning and gets Lotus to make Future easier to play.

Basically you could go turn 1 Summoning.
Turn 2  for Trinket Mage fetching Lotus.  Then use Lotus to play Magus.  Now you still have a land drop for the turn and presumably an off color Mox out there and you can play cards off the top of your library.

Regarding the "How do you build a deck that abuses Heartless Summoning, but can function without it."  One option is Aluren.  I don't see this as type 1 viable but if you threw in a bunch of creature cards that cost 3 then you could dump them for free with Aluren or pay 1 for them with Heartless Summoning.

[Smmenen]

Magus of the Future might be fun.  UUU for a lot of potential card advantage, especially when combined with Top.  Not sure it is worth it, just throwing it out there.

Also you could run Trinket Mage which is ideally costed for Heartless Summoning and gets Lotus to make Future easier to play.

In my set review, I mentioned Trinket Mage and Auriok Salvagers, as a combo I'd consider including with Heartless Summoning.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Magus of the Future might be fun.  UUU for a lot of potential card advantage, especially when combined with Top.  Not sure it is worth it, just throwing it out there.

Also you could run Trinket Mage which is ideally costed for Heartless Summoning and gets Lotus to make Future easier to play.

In my set review, I mentioned Trinket Mage and Auriok Salvagers, as a combo I'd consider including with Heartless Summoning.

I've been trying to stay out of this, but I'll mention Imperial Recruiter again since it grabs all three of the mentioned cards.

[meadbert]

Those are all decent ideas, but we are up to 4 colors and with the potential of having colorless mana paid for it is not clear what to do with wrong color duals.

So here is a short list:
Magus of the Future - 5 is still hardcastable.  Costs a reasonable 3 with Summoning out and then you can ideally play creatures of the top of your deck to function as a draw engine.
Painter's Servant. - Free with Summoning out and Trinket Mage could grab Grindstone.
Trinket Mage - Perfectly costed and grabs Lotus to pay for Magus or Top to combo with Magus
Auriok Salvagers - Hardcastable at 4 or super reasonable at 2.  Comboes with Trinket Mage.
Academy Rector - not much synergy with other cards, but a sac outlet makes him busted and with 2 Summonings you get Yawgmoth's Bargain for  .  Rector can also find Summoning although it is not clear that is a good use for him.  Also Rector could get a Future Sight if the deck is built around that combo.
Imperial Recuiter - Finds above cards potentially only costing 1, but unfortunately adds red.

Skullclamp? - So Clamp combos nicely with Summoning and Trinket Mage since you can grab clamp, clamp Mage and draw 2.  Here is the problem.  Clamp and Summoning have dissynergy in terms of what they do with your deck.  Ideally you want both in play and a buch of X/2 creatures so you can clamp and draw all day long.  The problem is without Summoning Clamp suddenly becomes mostly dead (unless you have 2.)  For that reason I do not think it works.  If you had a bunch of X/1 that you wanted to die such as a 0/1 Rector then it could also work as you would want Summoning OR Skullclamp but not both.  Anyway I don't think this works.