"The Unbroken" U/R Landstill: The Primer

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

I had been playing a Shaman for a little while, I just felt him unnecessary with the EE's. I played him over the Null Rod's you used to run. I think EE is just better. Also, the deck needs Ancient Grudge too much to not be three colors.

Is Ancient Grudge better than having Artifact Mutation? A.M. gives you access to something that Landstill historically doesn't have, in the form of a clock. I'm not sure - as I haven't tested it; it just seems that in every matchup that I'd want Ancient Grudge, I'd probably rather see Artifact Mutation, since following up with a standstill is MUCH better in that scenario.

I have played artifact mutation in the 75 of this deck before and it is better served as grudge. The main reason I say this is artifact mutation puts more of a strain on an already straining mana base. The color requirement of mutation needing green and red mana at the same time often is an issue. Where ancient grudge you get value out of it while you just have red, and later value in finding the green source...

Hope this makes sense, as I have played and tested that card before!

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Won Bloomsburg today with the following...

First – Josh Potucek
“Landstill"

4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
4 Mana Drain
2 Spell Pierce
2 Mindbreak Trap
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Dismember
2 Mental Misstep
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Standstill
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra’s Factory
2 Island
1 Mountain
4 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest

SB:
4 Ingot Chewer
2 Goblin Welder
4 Grafdigger’s Cage
3 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Bojuka Bog

My opponents were the following...Information is as close to accurate as I can recall (opponents help me if I am slightly off please lol).

Round 1 vs Martello (2-0 win)
Round 2 vs Tappen on Grixis Control (0-2)
Round 3 vs Rogue Hermit LOL's (2-0 win)
Round 4 vs Rob Edwards on Martello (2-1)
Round 5 ID w/ Glackin

Top 8 vs Kieth Sealson Martello (2-0)
Top 4 vs Kohler on Bomberman (2-0)
Finals vs Butker on Doomsday Gush (2-1)

Came home with a Time Walk. This is a well tuned list ad works really well...

[rbtabris]

Congratulations on your finish! How was the Ruby? Any instances in the day where it really helped pull you ahead? Any times where you had drawn it and would have rather had something else? This seems like a slot which moves in and out of the deck, so I'm curious as to how it played for you today.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Congratulations on your finish! How was the Ruby? Any instances in the day where it really helped pull you ahead? Any times where you had drawn it and would have rather had something else? This seems like a slot which moves in and out of the deck, so I'm curious as to how it played for you today.

Ruby was excellent. Before this event I was testing Thespians Stage over Ruby and also tested it over the 5th fetch land, and a lot of games I was mulling due to the stage being a colorless source. So I ended up sticking with the Ruby. The main time it really pulled me ahead was in round 4 (the win and in round) when I played turn 1 standstill against shops, which was obviously nice. It also helps power out Jace. I was really happy with Ruby in the list!

[TheWhiteDragon]

I love this list.  The thing that always gets me about landstill is why it isn't just played by everyone all the time.  You have a stronger draw suite than any deck (4 jace, 4 standstill, ancestral), you have an eternal army of fatties (crucible + factory), you have a zillion ways to kill critters (3 bolt, 1 dismember, 3 EE), max wasteland ability, and just shy of 1000 counterspells.  What deck CAN beat this?  Obviously between wastes and sb, you crush dredge - you out counter combo or oath - you counter/kill shops with all the bolts and recurable strips and manlands - you sweep/counter aggro with removal + EEs + recurable lands + infinite counters.  What would you consider a "weakness"?

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

I love this list.  The thing that always gets me about landstill is why it isn't just played by everyone all the time.  You have a stronger draw suite than any deck (4 jace, 4 standstill, ancestral), you have an eternal army of fatties (crucible + factory), you have a zillion ways to kill critters (3 bolt, 1 dismember, 3 EE), max wasteland ability, and just shy of 1000 counterspells.  What deck CAN beat this?  Obviously between wastes and sb, you crush dredge - you out counter combo or oath - you counter/kill shops with all the bolts and recurable strips and manlands - you sweep/counter aggro with removal + EEs + recurable lands + infinite counters.  What would you consider a "weakness"?

Lol...Thanks

Almost every time I go to an event with landstill sleeved up I do well/win...That being said my losses generally involve a harsh mulligan in a game 3 against shops or dredge where you can't afford a harsh mlligan. A weakness to this deck? Good Q...I don't see this deck having a true weakness. I have been crushing EVERY archetype with this current list. Adding the 26th mana source to the main deck has been really good especially against shops. I was boarding mountian out against non shops decks. We have a large amount of shops in my meta game. But like I said this current list has ben crushing everything in testing...even dredge. The interaction of welders and artifact dredge hate has been really really absurd. I never lost a post sb game vs dredge with the updated sb...So all in all I love this list/deck, its a beast!

[TheWhiteDragon]

I think that this deck has to be THE deck that is good vs everything.  It is predicated on the concept of countering/answering everything while outdrawing and playing uncounterable, unkillable threats.  You can stop anything any opponent does, while they can't stop anything you do.  I'm perfectly fine with a deck only losing to horrible luck, becuase with average luck or better you would easily beat a gauntlet of every archetype through any number of rounds.  No weaknesses i fantastic, but even moreso, I think this deck is easily 60% or better vs everything sans the mirror with many 90%s in there.

[Ten-Ten]

Congrats, Mr. Potucek!

 Just curious though, have you missed the Ghost quater, Reb/pyroblast, Misdirection #2 at all?

[Shock Wave]

I love this list.  The thing that always gets me about landstill is why it isn't just played by everyone all the time.  You have a stronger draw suite than any deck (4 jace, 4 standstill, ancestral), you have an eternal army of fatties (crucible + factory), you have a zillion ways to kill critters (3 bolt, 1 dismember, 3 EE), max wasteland ability, and just shy of 1000 counterspells.  What deck CAN beat this?  Obviously between wastes and sb, you crush dredge - you out counter combo or oath - you counter/kill shops with all the bolts and recurable strips and manlands - you sweep/counter aggro with removal + EEs + recurable lands + infinite counters.  What would you consider a "weakness"?

The truth of the matter is that very few players do well with Landstill because it's not an easy deck to wield. You don't get a lot of free wins. There are critical decisions to be made every turn. You're switching roles often between control and aggro-control. Unless I am mistaken, it's Josh and maybe a handful of other players that get great results with this deck, and everyone else does very poorly. Josh, correct me if I am wrong, but you also went through the learning curve with Landstill and lost a lot before you became an expert with it, no?

[A.-1.]

My opponents were the following...Information is as close to accurate as I can recall (opponents help me if I am slightly off please lol).

Round 4 vs Rob Edwards on Martello (2-0 I think)

You crushed me game three after two very close games. You had land, Ruby, and Standstill turn one; I cracked the Standstill; and then you top-decked Lotus, played a Waste?, and Jace. The top-decked Lotus was overkill though since your grip at that point was almost unbeatable given my hand. It's all good though considering how our previous matches went. You deserved a little payback.

[orgcandman]

The truth of the matter is that very few players do well with Landstill because it's not an easy deck to wield. You don't get a lot of free wins. There are critical decisions to be made every turn. You're switching roles often between control and aggro-control. Unless I am mistaken, it's Josh and maybe a handful of other players that get great results with this deck, and everyone else does very poorly. Josh, correct me if I am wrong, but you also went through the learning curve with Landstill and lost a lot before you became an expert with it, no?

There's only one way to "learn" landstill. Test often, admit that your losses are almost 100% your own fault, and know your opponents deck better than they do. The deck has no free wins, but also has few auto-losses.

Landstill is a drain to sit down with for a few reasons:
 - Most opponents don't realize that the end of the game is just formality and drag games out
 - You don't get the same kind of wiggle room as far as mistakes go, since you don't combo out
 - Your goal is to literally do nothing as far as interaction goes, except maybe disrupt mana. Landstill thrives on the draw-go portion of the game. A "perfect" game involves someone so paralyzed by fear of standstill that they just draw go while you turn overcosted grizzly bears sideways.

I am by no means a landstill expert, but coming back to the game with fresh eyes, I can identify with it much more now.

[TheWhiteDragon]

The truth of the matter is that very few players do well with Landstill because it's not an easy deck to wield. You don't get a lot of free wins. There are critical decisions to be made every turn. You're switching roles often between control and aggro-control. Unless I am mistaken, it's Josh and maybe a handful of other players that get great results with this deck, and everyone else does very poorly. Josh, correct me if I am wrong, but you also went through the learning curve with Landstill and lost a lot before you became an expert with it, no?

There's only one way to "learn" landstill. Test often, admit that your losses are almost 100% your own fault, and know your opponents deck better than they do. The deck has no free wins, but also has few auto-losses.

Landstill is a drain to sit down with for a few reasons:
 - Most opponents don't realize that the end of the game is just formality and drag games out
 - You don't get the same kind of wiggle room as far as mistakes go, since you don't combo out
 - Your goal is to literally do nothing as far as interaction goes, except maybe disrupt mana. Landstill thrives on the draw-go portion of the game. A "perfect" game involves someone so paralyzed by fear of standstill that they just draw go while you turn overcosted grizzly bears sideways.

I am by no means a landstill expert, but coming back to the game with fresh eyes, I can identify with it much more now.

I highlighted the main point that I was trying to make.  If you competently learn this deck and avoid play errors, you almost CAN'T lose with this deck.  I can see the games where your opponent lands a critter or manland on turn 1 and instead of your own, you draw all 15 counters in a row...or you fight over a key spell, then proceed to draw ALL non-waste, non-factory lands for 20 turns.  Incredibly bad luck happens.  But by being competent and playing tight, and having at least average luck and random draws as you should most games, you CAN'T lose with this...there literally is an answer to EVERY strategy possible.  You can remove any threat on the board, remove every card from the grave, and counter every spell on the stack.  There's nothing to do but lose vs. this.

I've even tried to build a landstill "hate" deck, and it just can't be done.  You can't design a deck specifically designed to beat landstill and actually succeed.  The best you can do is play the mirror and hope you draw better.

[Wagner]

I think that this deck has to be THE deck that is good vs everything.  It is predicated on the concept of countering/answering everything while outdrawing and playing uncounterable, unkillable threats.  You can stop anything any opponent does, while they can't stop anything you do.  I'm perfectly fine with a deck only losing to horrible luck, becuase with average luck or better you would easily beat a gauntlet of every archetype through any number of rounds.  No weaknesses i fantastic, but even moreso, I think this deck is easily 60% or better vs everything sans the mirror with many 90%s in there.

Didn't you say the exact same thing about Bomberman in the other discussion?

[TheWhiteDragon]

I think that this deck has to be THE deck that is good vs everything.  It is predicated on the concept of countering/answering everything while outdrawing and playing uncounterable, unkillable threats.  You can stop anything any opponent does, while they can't stop anything you do.  I'm perfectly fine with a deck only losing to horrible luck, becuase with average luck or better you would easily beat a gauntlet of every archetype through any number of rounds.  No weaknesses i fantastic, but even moreso, I think this deck is easily 60% or better vs everything sans the mirror with many 90%s in there.

Didn't you say the exact same thing about Bomberman in the other discussion?

Actually, I did, but found it to be beatable in certain situations. A deck running stony silence for example can break bomberman.  Dredge with its own leyline can break bomberman.  A fast shops start can break bomberman if they don't have the FoW.  I was a bit fast to judgement on bomberman and have included it in my gauntlet as well as this.  What I have found is that bomberman can be beaten by the right cards and the right strategies.  It depends on the grave, is "small" against aggro (trinkets are 2/2 while a single factory is 3/3), doesn't have as many counters, and doesn't have the ability to cast repeated threats (waste/factory/conclave) through spheres.  Landstill can get BIG blockers (4/4 with 2 factories and immortal with crucible - a single factory is lethal size to a golem), has 15 counters with 8-10 of them being "free", FOUR jace, a superior draw engine (4 standstill), and MORE answers (3 bolt, 1 dismember, 3 EE).  It is not dependent on artifacts, so null rod and silence don't hurt much.  It's not dependent on the grave, so leyline is not backbreaking.  It can't be out aggroed (EE sweeps a fast start of 2cc critters, and bolt/factory handles everything else).  It can't be comboed on (try burning wish through that counter wall!).  It is sphere resistant (factory/waste).

I was quick to judge bomberman, and testing has shown it is very solid, but beatable...landstill just isn't.  When my opponent has had a decent landstill hand and drawn what I would consider fairly random, I have been beaten no matter what archetype I play and with any amount of maindeck hate/sb cards.  The only thing that can make it is the mirror.

Josh - what would you bring in to hate on the mirror?  What would you see as "problematic" cards against landstill?  I can think of none. (If you're worried about tipping your hand, you can PM me the answers - since we'll undoubtedly never meet in person)

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

I love this list.  The thing that always gets me about landstill is why it isn't just played by everyone all the time.  You have a stronger draw suite than any deck (4 jace, 4 standstill, ancestral), you have an eternal army of fatties (crucible + factory), you have a zillion ways to kill critters (3 bolt, 1 dismember, 3 EE), max wasteland ability, and just shy of 1000 counterspells.  What deck CAN beat this?  Obviously between wastes and sb, you crush dredge - you out counter combo or oath - you counter/kill shops with all the bolts and recurable strips and manlands - you sweep/counter aggro with removal + EEs + recurable lands + infinite counters.  What would you consider a "weakness"?

The truth of the matter is that very few players do well with Landstill because it's not an easy deck to wield. You don't get a lot of free wins. There are critical decisions to be made every turn. You're switching roles often between control and aggro-control. Unless I am mistaken, it's Josh and maybe a handful of other players that get great results with this deck, and everyone else does very poorly. Josh, correct me if I am wrong, but you also went through the learning curve with Landstill and lost a lot before you became an expert with it, no?

Yes! This is right on the money...This deck offers no free wins, while in my opinion I am never an underdog in a match every match is still a battle and very close. I went through a 2 year period of learning/developing landstill and to finally put it back on the map. Started with winning side events then finally went to the main events and strung off three wins in a row at the blue bell events a few years ago now. This deck is by no means easy. One slight misplay and you are up a creek and when I say slight, most people may look at it at a decision and not a misplay but every decision with a deck that is not broken can result in you losing the game. This was very true especially for my top 4 match and finals match. If I had to pick 2 hard decks/opponents to play against in the whole room, it were those 2. Kohler on Bomberman and Butker on Doomsday, those matchups can be very tight and hard to win if you don't play them properly. For example against bomberman I know that the main way in game 2 for himto shut me down is needle. I brought in 3 chewer to make sure that didn't happen with the added benefit of being decent vs Jace (as bomberman plays creatures and 4 jace)...But Shock Wave is 100% correct on his summation above!

Congrats, Mr. Potucek!

 Just curious though, have you missed the Ghost quater, Reb/pyroblast, Misdirection #2 at all?

I didn't miss the quarter at all. I axed the reb effects in favor of bolts because the current metagame consists of a bunch of lodestone golems and other random creatures. Plus bolts are effective at fighting an early jace as well. As far as MisD #2...I love misdirection and its easily one of my favorite cards in the deck, but spell pierces were more diverse so I made the change to make this deck more flexible and attack a wider variety of decks.

My opponents were the following...Information is as close to accurate as I can recall (opponents help me if I am slightly off please lol).

Round 4 vs Rob Edwards on Martello (2-0 I think)

You crushed me game three after two very close games. You had land, Ruby, and Standstill turn one; I cracked the Standstill; and then you top-decked Lotus, played a Waste?, and Jace. The top-decked Lotus was overkill though since your grip at that point was almost unbeatable given my hand. It's all good though considering how our previous matches went. You deserved a little payback.

Thanks Rob I have terrible memory and forgot! Good games for sure!

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Josh - what would you bring in to hate on the mirror?  What would you see as "problematic" cards against landstill?  I can think of none. (If you're worried about tipping your hand, you can PM me the answers - since we'll undoubtedly never meet in person)

You bring in dudes to fight the mirror. I won't go through the exact what cards to bring in/out haha test and figure it out. But if our 75s are oddly similar, you want to have some extra beaters on the board in the mirror...make sense? I have not lost the mirror yet...

Problematic cards for landstill....Needle, but is beatable. If shops brings it in you have artifact hate, the other main deck bringing it n is bomberman, which is again why I brought in chewers...And say they needle factory you can have EE kill it. Other random cards hard to beat would be moon effecs, back to basics, choke, boil, obviously some highly played cards haha...A turn 1 oath orchard mox hand with force back is a problem. A early broken combo hand with counter back can be a problem. There are not many problem cards for landstill...only lucky problem situations. This is why I have stayed at 2 mindbreak trap this long, because I want to limit my opponents turn 1 broken hand. Between 4 force, 2 misstep, 2 trap, 1-2 misD, it has worked well at doing just that...

[TheWhiteDragon]

Josh - what would you bring in to hate on the mirror?  What would you see as "problematic" cards against landstill?  I can think of none. (If you're worried about tipping your hand, you can PM me the answers - since we'll undoubtedly never meet in person)

You bring in dudes to fight the mirror. I won't go through the exact what cards to bring in/out haha test and figure it out. But if our 75s are oddly similar, you want to have some extra beaters on the board in the mirror...make sense? I have not lost the mirror yet...

Problematic cards for landstill....Needle, but is beatable. If shops brings it in you have artifact hate, the other main deck bringing it n is bomberman, which is again why I brought in chewers...And say they needle factory you can have EE kill it. Other random cards hard to beat would be moon effecs, back to basics, choke, boil, obviously some highly played cards haha...A turn 1 oath orchard mox hand with force back is a problem. A early broken combo hand with counter back can be a problem. There are not many problem cards for landstill...only lucky problem situations. This is why I have stayed at 2 mindbreak trap this long, because I want to limit my opponents turn 1 broken hand. Between 4 force, 2 misstep, 2 trap, 1-2 misD, it has worked well at doing just that...

Yeah, that's exactly what I was saying.  I have tried needles x4 - and null rod x4.  Hurkylls can answer both as can chewers.  If you stop the EEs, the bolts/factoies win.  If you stop the factories, the EE's kill the needles.  Wasting the manlands do nothing as you drop crucible and have 15+ counters to force it through. It's funny that you beat the mirror - that means landstill can't lose to anything except on the account of bad luck - including to itself!

I've even tried to beat this thing with red-burn with magus and price of progress....no dice.  Bolts kill the magus, counters stop everything else....and then you got nothing.  Even the Vexing devil is an easy kill - either take the 4, misstep it, or just sac and then bring back a manland.  As far as I've seen, this deck just can't be beat.  I suppose a deck with ophidian type critters and a 20+ counterwall with 4 b2b might help...but you could just not attack with factories and instead make them blockers - then ramp jace for the win.  A U/W deck with B2B and stony silence?  But then you'd just counter those...

I can't see a problem that isn't a pothole easily run over for this deck.  Even Blood Moon (like they'd have a chance in hell of resolving it) you could just land, sapphire, lotus, EE for 3.

[msg67183]

Josh, have you missed the third color for EE?
Was Nev's Disk just too much mana?
Would you say this list you won with Saturday is the most optimal 2 color list for the Bloomsburg meta?

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Josh, have you missed the third color for EE?
Was Nev's Disk just too much mana?
Would you say this list you won with Saturday is the most optimal 2 color list for the Bloomsburg meta?

Missing EE on 3, No I didn't due to having more creature removal in 3 bolts, 1 dismember, and 4 Jace. Only other card I would miss killing is an opposing crucible. But overall no I didn't miss it. It makes the deck more consistent axing the 3rd color.

Nev Disk is too much mana especially while running 4 Jace...

Most optimal 2 color list in the current, ever-changing mets, yes. As far as the "bloomsburg meta"...The meta there reflects what the entire eas coast meta reflects pretty much...So for this month yeah I feel this list was most optimal, and it was proven by winning the event. You will notice my lists generally get tweaked monthly due to what I expect in a specific event or change/shift in the meta in anyway what so ever. Sometimes it is a guessing game and you can make risky changes, but this current UR list is pretty well balanced...

[Andreas]

Yeah, that's exactly what I was saying.  I have tried needles x4 - and null rod x4.  Hurkylls can answer both as can chewers.  If you stop the EEs, the bolts/factoies win.  If you stop the factories, the EE's kill the needles.  Wasting the manlands do nothing as you drop crucible and have 15+ counters to force it through. It's funny that you beat the mirror - that means landstill can't lose to anything except on the account of bad luck - including to itself!

Try Thrun the Last Troll.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Problem with thrun is, he isn't good vs anything else. And say my opponent draws a thrun in game 2 and say I win game 1...In game 2 something simple as crucible factory stops thrun. Faerie conclave can attack through thrun. And if my opponent wants to use thrun on the offensive side. I have 5 man lands to keep up with the damage race.

On to game 3 against thrun. I will bring in 2-3 chewer depending on what the deck is that is running thrun and win the damage race again if my opponent chooses to use thrun offensively. If they choose to sit back then I have jace fateseal, and like I said before crucible factory blocks. I hae already played against thrun with success in the manner of what I just described. Thrun is cute but not good enough overall when in my scene I am often the only one on landstill or maybe 2-3 ppl at most. Diluting a sb with thrun has more of a negative impact then a good one...

[credmond]

A good GW or GWb deck gives Landstill a rough time. Stony silence is a tough card for the EE version of Landstill to deal with. Null rod can be dealt with easily but stony silence sticks once it sticks. Teeg, pridemage, goyf, and mayor are all major pains in that matchup. Luckily, that deck isn't well-positioned in the meta right now, but if Landstill numbers spike up, that could give GW and other predators of Landstill a boost. The rumors of the unbeatability of Landstill are a bit premature!

I have come to the similar conclusion that Izzet Charm is a good card but the UR color requirement is too much of a stretch for Landstill.

Thespian stage also seems only a good card vs controllish blue decks and the mirror. It has been super fun however vs blue control. Nothing feels quite as awesome as double library!

Three color landstill might be worth it for ancient grudge. Grudge is a really good 2 for 1 card that helps you fight opposing blue decks while being a solid card of course for shops. EE for 3 is a very rare play, but grudge would be missed by going to 2 color.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

Yeah if GW bears get big if landstill spikes, then my list will change. I have always felt that landstill can adapt to anything...

As far as color combinations go...I have had success with UR, URb, and URb. I have tested every other combination extensively as well. There are so many ways to build and have success with landstill.

[StanleyAugust]

Josh: How do you sideboard against Dredge with your current configuration?

[TheWhiteDragon]

The issue with stony silence is it WON'T stick.  Yes, it stays in play once it's there, but with spell snares/FoW it will most likely not resolve.  Then, even if it does, crucible/shops will take out any bear you can throw at it.  Play a mayor and it gets bolted - mayor I think is the only card mentioned that CAN get out of hand...but between jace, bolts, counters, and dismember, I highly doubt it would live long enough to flip.  Also, the fact that you ancestral them every time you cast a critter is big.  The deck has so many outs and an inherently strong gameplan vs EVERYTHING that it's tough to beat.  The wastes kill dredge, the factories/bolts kill shops, the counterwall kills blue, the EEs + counters kill oath, the EEs/bolts/dismember/factories kill aggro.  Oh, and just because, the 4 jace, ancestral, 4 standstill basically mean it is drawing 3 a turn.  I can't think of a single spell that hurts landstill in any fashion.  Back to basics?  Yeah,  good luck making that stick.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

All of the artifact hate and bog with welders. Haven't lost a single post sb game vs dredge. Kill my hate weld it in. I have demolished dredge really really hard with this list. Probably the best it's ever been...

[credmond]

The issue with stony silence is it WON'T stick.  Yes, it stays in play once it's there, but with spell snares/FoW it will most likely not resolve.  Then, even if it does, crucible/shops will take out any bear you can throw at it.  Play a mayor and it gets bolted - mayor I think is the only card mentioned that CAN get out of hand...but between jace, bolts, counters, and dismember, I highly doubt it would live long enough to flip.  Also, the fact that you ancestral them every time you cast a critter is big.  The deck has so many outs and an inherently strong gameplan vs EVERYTHING that it's tough to beat.  The wastes kill dredge, the factories/bolts kill shops, the counterwall kills blue, the EEs + counters kill oath, the EEs/bolts/dismember/factories kill aggro.  Oh, and just because, the 4 jace, ancestral, 4 standstill basically mean it is drawing 3 a turn.  I can't think of a single spell that hurts landstill in any fashion.  Back to basics?  Yeah,  good luck making that stick.

Hyperbole much? I think you need to test the matchup and otherwise read some Greek tragedies where the word hubris comes up. Part of Josh's success with this last list is that it has a built in gambit going for it. The gambit was that aggro would not show up in sufficient numbers as a threat and that gambit proved right in that meta for that tournament. Landstill can of course adapt to fight an aggro heavy meta, but if it has to fight blue, shops, dredge, AND aggro it tends to be stretched too thin. Landstill does best when the meta itself allows it to hide its weak spots.

[BC]

Congrats on the win, Josh.  My main question about your build is WHY NO TIME WALK?  I'm sure there's a perfectly good explanation.  Also no Snapcasters?  Less glaring of an omission, but still notable. 

[StanleyAugust]

All of the artifact hate and bog with welders. Haven't lost a single post sb game vs dredge. Kill my hate weld it in. I have demolished dredge really really hard with this list. Probably the best it's ever been...

Yeah, it looks very good on paper. I was thinking, what do you side out?

[Samoht]

Congrats on the win, Josh.  My main question about your build is WHY NO TIME WALK?  I'm sure there's a perfectly good explanation.  Also no Snapcasters?  Less glaring of an omission, but still notable. 

He's explained his rationale behind no TW before. Basically, it is a do nothing card, and he has no insane plays to couple it with. I disagree. I think there is extreme value behind Time Walk + Jace or even Time Walk and Crucible of Worlds/Wasteland/Strip Mine. His contention is that it often isn't enough. I personally think he'd be better suited to be at 3 Jace and 1 Time Walk, but that's me.

Snapcaster is only good late game, and though he tends to get there because he is on control the problem is if he has it early it can only be FoW fodder. He plays more cards that are direct answers early in order to ensure that late game. It's also why he is on 4 Jace, because he knows the other cards will get him to a game state in which he has Jace and from there the path to victory is a known solution.