Card choice - Lab deck

[waffles]

Caldera Hellion: For the beatdown plan if you trigger DotH when against an opponent who runs heavy removal (and would just kill Maniac then watch you deck out). Grabbing this guy and a Hunted Troll will probably wipe the board in many cases, leaving you with 11 power unopposed. If you find that 3 dmg isn't enough to sweep, you can run Crater Hellion instead.

About the hellion, I would play Avatar of Might an over it since it is an 8/8 with trample. Also it becomes a creature for with all those tokens I I’m producing. Which I think is a better way to put pressure on them.

The additions and changes I would make to your revision Delha are:

Remove the hellion, add an Avatar of Might

Add:
4x Miscalculation
This is another counter in addition to being a source of card draw. It has good synergy with the maniac

4x Edge of Autumn
Mana Fixing, and Cycling.
3x Gush
Foresight, malipulate fate might work here too

Avatar of Might is far inferior to Massacre Wurm (which should replace Hellion per vaughbros' suggestion).
1. You don't want to be hardcasting here. The idea is to dig up Wurm via DotH.
     a. Wurm + Troll gets you 14 power, kills their dorks (Welder/Confidant/etc), and deals probably 16+ dmg in the process.
     b. Avatar + Troll gets you effectively 8 power on the board (since Troll gets chump blocked for four turns).
     c. Using Avatar to attack means you want to race, but leaving they with tokens makes it harder for you to do so.
2. Avatar only works with Phantasm. Troll gives them only 3 more creatures than you.
3. If you trigger DotH off a Phantasm, you can dig up Phantasm + Wurm for lethal. 5 tokens from each Phantasm = 10 tokens = 20 life.
4. You want to get rid of their tokens if you're going beatdown, to stop them from outracing you.

What's the rationale behind Foresight/Manipulate Fate? I may be missing something, but both seem worse than Lat Nam's Legacy in this deck. Gush could work out well, and Edge of Autumn might be okay, but I'm dubious about Miscalculation. I suspect it's too weak of a counterspell, meaning that it's likely going to just sit in hand a lot waiting to be cycled. If that ends up being the case, you're better off running something else. Maybe Abeyance, Fire/Ice, Remand, Repeal, or even Call to Heel. I'd probably personally lean towards Call to Heel/Repeal. The former stops BSC, and the latter is good for just general utility.

I think the value of miscalculation will reveal itself during playtesting, something i have not been able to do yet. Your assessments of my card choices have shown me the light, they are pretty bad. the most in a turn i hit with the avatar would be 7, which i do admit is pretty terrible.Now that i look at it. Malipulate Fate is not as strong in this deck as i thought it might have been. Seems that i thought it may have been good for the cantrip, which is a bad reason to include it.

Here is a revised deck list:
Revision 3

4x DotH
2x Maniac
2x Leveler
1x Caldera Hellion

4x Hunted Phantasm
4x Hunted Troll

2x Enlightened Tutor
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Echoing Truth

1x Brainstorm
4x Lat Nam's Legacy
3x Gush

4x FoW
4x Miscalculation
4x Remand

4x Edge of Autumn

1x Lotus Petal
Do you think Lotus Cobra has a home here? Chrome mox, as previously suggested here may work quite well here.

[Delha]

Here is a revised deck list:
Revision 3

4x DotH
2x Maniac
2x Leveler
1x Caldera Hellion

4x Hunted Phantasm
4x Hunted Troll

2x Enlightened Tutor
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Echoing Truth

1x Brainstorm
4x Lat Nam's Legacy
3x Gush

4x FoW
4x Miscalculation
4x Remand

4x Edge of Autumn

1x Lotus Petal
Do you think Lotus Cobra has a home here? Chrome mox, as previously suggested here may work quite well here.

Chrome Mox is probably a bad idea. The -CA hurts, and it's not going to accelerate you that much. Birds of Paradise is already better than Chrome, and Cobra is in turn probably better than Birds. That said, you need to start cutting back. Your list is already at 43 cards w/out mana.

I'd personally lean towards cutting Miscalculation and Edge of Autumn, then seeing how you can fit the Cobras. These are cards being run largely because of what they do AFTER you trigger DotH, when you really should be focusing on what comes BEFORE that point.

[AmbivalentDuck]

See Beyond seems much better than Lat-Nam's Legacy.

Also, this deck would have an awful time against Legacy aggro.  It might even have issues with Extended Faeries.  What's wrong with lower CMC, less convoluted combo decks?

[Darkenslight]

I think the value of miscalculation will reveal itself during playtesting, something i have not been able to do yet. Your assessments of my card choices have shown me the light, they are pretty bad. the most in a turn i hit with the avatar would be 7, which i do admit is pretty terrible.Now that i look at it. Malipulate Fate is not as strong in this deck as i thought it might have been. Seems that i thought it may have been good for the cantrip, which is a bad reason to include it.

Here is a revised deck list:
Revision 3

4x DotH
2x Maniac
2x Leveler
1x Caldera Hellion

4x Hunted Phantasm
4x Hunted Troll

2x Enlightened Tutor
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Echoing Truth

1x Brainstorm
4x Lat Nam's Legacy
3x Gush

4x FoW
4x Miscalculation
4x Remand

4x Edge of Autumn

1x Lotus Petal
Do you think Lotus Cobra has a home here? Chrome mox, as previously suggested here may work quite well here.

Here are my suggestions:

REMOVE

4 Edge of Autumn
4 Miscalculation
4 Lat Nam's Legacy

ADD:

Sol Ring
4 Delay
4 Preordain
3 land

I get that you want to keep the Legacys to shuffle away your Lab Maniacs and Levellers, but Preordain does filtering better.  I'd also suggest removing the Brainstorm out: as a singleton, it's nowhere near the level you want it to be.  Not sure what I'd replace it with, to be fair.

[Delha]

See Beyond seems much better than Lat-Nam's Legacy.

You're entirely right, I'd forgotten about See Beyond entirely. I'd replace Lat Nam's with these in a heartbeat.

I get that you want to keep the Legacys to shuffle away your Lab Maniacs and Levellers, but Preordain does filtering better.  I'd also suggest removing the Brainstorm out: as a singleton, it's nowhere near the level you want it to be.  Not sure what I'd replace it with, to be fair.

This doesn't make sense to me. I'm not knocking Preordain, but four copies isn't going to mean you get clean filtering on all your draws. There will be plenty of times where you bottom a couple cards then rip Leveler/Maniac/Wurm. There will be plenty of times where you start with one of them in an otherwise decent opener. Lat Nam's (now See Beyond) is +CA in addition to improving quality.

Regarding Brainstorm, I can't see your reasoning here either. BS is far and away the best hand manipulation available when you consider what this deck wants. Why wouldn't you run it? Four would be better sure, but that doesn't stop people from running their singleton Ancestral. You've suggested the singleton Sol Ring (which I agree with entirely, but didn't bring up since I was ignoring mana thus far). Why is 1x BS bad, but 1x Sol Ring good?

[AmbivalentDuck]

Why 8 awful creatures instead of 3x awful creature, 4x Intuition?  Especially once you start talking Intuition, you greatly increase your likelihood of having what you need when you need it and can talk about adding extra combos.

Couldn't we make this significantly less convoluted while minimizing the footprint, speeding it up, and removing the awful cards?  Why are we giving the opponent a horde on turn 4?  If they have any clock at all, you just die.

Examples:
1. Tooth and Nail and any of the Duress variants imprinted on Spellweaver Helix.
2. Oath of Druids finds Maniac and decks you the next turn before you draw.
3. Hermit Druid shell.

And while we're on it, given any two critters off a Defense, why not just snag a two-critter combo that doesn't scoop to removal?  Ie. Protean Hulk + a sac outlet.  That way you gain the Flash engine as an additional low CMC wincon.

Like, I understand that this might be fun for one person out there to goldfish, but this is a bizarrely constrained optimization.  Are we building around a collection?  A sexual fantasy involving goldfish and maniacs?  An irrational attachment to Defense + Leveler + Maniac?

[Killane]

Also of note is that the Oath plan wins in two activations, not 3. Oath decks you on your upkeep and you win on the draw step. You don't have to pass twice, like was previously stated.