GWB Beats

[bax]

In short what i did was the following:

...given this pattern, would you ever consider Misstep maindeck?

Not in a big european tournamente where out of 9 match 4 were Stacker!
You gotta read your meta with this deck and have to guess it right ! In europe Misstep maindeck in my opinion are a risky choice.

[StanleyAugust]

Congratulations on your impressive results. This build seems like the real deal. One question: did you ever miss Stony Silence/Null Rod or more controlling element like Thoughtseize?

[Guli]

Very happy with your results here!

Seems like GWB is getting both online as offline results! Enjoyed your report a lot. Are there video's we can watch?

[bax]

Very happy with your results here!

Seems like GWB is getting both online as offline results! Enjoyed your report a lot. Are there video's we can watch?

Guli yes there is a video of the featured match against Fabian. G2 is unreal, after he finds myr battlesphere as the 4th card when activates Kuldotha under Aven he then topdeck steel helkite and duplicant !!! Like did i get a chance ?!?!
My G3 is pretty bad as i make several mistakes after i realized he misstriggered twice on his tangle wire. Thankfully those mistakes would not have compromised the match in any case as i needed a waste effect, but nonetheless they are mistakes i shouldn't have made. The judge gave him a warning for misstrigger but I still wonder why the judge did not let us go back on the misstriggers as those two turns plus metalworker gave him an advantage i could never recover. That will serve me as a lesson, I need to learn to be more attentive in the future. I felt confident there that i had a sound advantage and did not concentrate enough.

My match is the round 7 - scroll down until you see it: http://www.watchdamatch.com/Articles/Magic/Coverage-et-News/MTG-BOM-2012-MAIN-EVENT-VINTAGE.html
Comments are in French so you probably understand them better than i do

[Guli]

Here is bax fetching up a basic forest like a champ!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CokW2Viooqg#!

Man he got extremely lucky in game 3. You didn't see a single wasteland, and it would have destroyed his board with Kataki online... sorry to see that.

[msg67183]

Congrats on 9th place. Sucks to be so close to the top 8 though.

I have been thinking about a cavern deck but only GW humans:

4 hierarch
4 glowrider
3 Thalia
4 kotr
4 mayor of avabruck
4 chalice of the void
4 grafdiggers cage
4 surgical extraction
3 fiend hunter
Petal
Pearl
Emerald
black lotus
4 savannah
4 windswept heath
4 wasteland
Strip mine
2 forest
2 plains
1 karakas
4 cavern of souls


I havent been able to test this list but it seems like it could be strong. Are there more humans I missed? Surgicals could come out.

[Guli]

Interesting list!

So you dismiss the rainbow land configuration and cut Dark Confidant for a more normal mana base and knights, surgical, cage.

You know, Phantasmal Image is a key player when using Glowrider, Mayor and Revoker. When Mayor is Alpha and you copy it, Image will never flip back and you get token the same turn. So this means for just   you get a 4/4 wolf token and a token generator. It also helps against Wurmcoil and Tinker a likes.

I do see a lot of game against control with that list while also being good versus  mud shop with noble, mana base and mayor. Thing is though, you need more than 5 strip effects to make Mayor really good versus Shop. Also, you will be weak against Metalworker builds...

My standard check-list:

- Have a turn 1 answer in the deck versus Metalworker
- Tinker answers both pre and post tinker
- Don't lose to combo, have enough hate
- Anti-sphere plan, this can be with either moxes or esg (or both)
- Don't forget Oath

[msg67183]

You are never going to name illusion with cavern so I dont see why image  is there. And the surgicals can be null rods.

[bax]

Here is bax fetching up a basic forest like a champ!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CokW2Viooqg#!

Man he got extremely lucky in game 3. You didn't see a single wasteland, and it would have destroyed his board with Kataki online... sorry to see that.

Thanks Guli !

Yes a Waste effect in G3 would have given me the match, especially because he made the mistake of not copying Kataki when he could have (before Karakas). Oh well
Now i have to keep bringing this deck until Annecy next year to seek some revenge 

[xouman]

Though I do not play these colors, my list works on a "similar" idea. Looking at this I'll probably play Misstep, and maybe in the Main. As I play discard and play a quite reliable list against MUD, I think I can play 3 in the main without many troubles. My main concern would be life loss, since I maindeck 4 ancient tomb and mana crypt, but hey, fast mana has its costs. Confidant is also a source of life loss but does not seem an issue for you.

Surgical seems less clear in my case. Besides life loss, most of the time is card disadvantage isn't it? What are its functions in this deck? I'll use it to
-Remove non-basic lands previously wasted/stripped.
-Take most dangerous anwsers against us (swords, ligtnings...). Probably does not worth it in my case. Does it really pay off?


And more specifically:

-How do you plan oath match? You play solid answers for oath, but there is a response in case opponent puts an emrakul/giselbrand into play (show & tell, for example)? Swords does not work against emrakul, and against giselbrand he can draw 7/14 to find a solution.

Thanks again!

[msg67183]

Im not sure. In all seriousness I am a shop player and nothing else, so I dont plan on playing these decks I just enjoy coming up with ideas.

[bluemage55]

Surgical seems less clear in my case. Besides life loss, most of the time is card disadvantage isn't it? What are its functions in this deck? I'll use it to
-Remove non-basic lands previously wasted/stripped.
-Take most dangerous anwsers against us (swords, ligtnings...). Probably does not worth it in my case. Does it really pay off?

It also counters top deck tutors and mitigates recursion that could otherwise generate CA for the opponent (e.g. Snapcaster/Welder/Crucible/Dredgers).  I'm not convinced of its value either, but those other applications are worth mentioning.

-How do you plan oath match? You play solid answers for oath, but there is a response in case opponent puts an emrakul/giselbrand into play (show & tell, for example)? Swords does not work against emrakul, and against giselbrand he can draw 7/14 to find a solution.

Show and Tell costs 2U.  Your defense against that is to attack their mana with your Waste/Strip/Stony package + sphere!bears and generally disrupt them so that you can beat them to death before they ever cast it.

[rmn]

Just curious, has anyone tried putting Lodestone Golems in the deck?  For one more mana than Glowrider it packs a lot more punch, and it can be cast with colorless from your Caverns.

Or maybe put it in the sideboard, for after the opponent has taken out his artifact kill.

[InfectedMushroom]

4 mana is just a bit too much in a deck like this. Sure it's a good clock, but you would have had more combat phases by playing your smaller disruptive bears. Seeing it in your opening grip, with 2-3 mana sources, isn't very good. Also by then, your opponent will have had more time to develop their board, which reduces the impact it has.

[Guli]

Grand Arbiter Augustin IV is a better at the 4 cc slot because it is asymmetrical and a human.

[bax]

If i were to put a CC4 in this deck it would be Rafiq.

[Guli]

There are two 'projects' I am working on right now. The human/Cavern and the GWB beats without Cavern but with Vial. I wanted to post my Vial list here even though it doesn't use 'null rod' it has a lot of ways to destroy Artifacts. There is an interesting card in this list, a planeswalker, with Teeg that is rare.


1 Karakas
1 Strip Mine
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
3 Savannah
2 Scrubland
2 Bayou
1 Mox Jet
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
1 Verdant Catacombs

4 AEther Vial
4 Noble Hierarch

4 Path to Exile
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Leonin Relic-Warder

4 Dark Confidant
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Aven Mindcensor
3 Gaddock Teeg

4 Mental Misstep
3 Ajani, Caller of the Pride

SB: 4 Yixlid Jailer
SB: 4 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 4 Hidden Guerrillas
SB: 3 Swords to Plowshares

[StanleyAugust]

I'm surprised this thread, and the GWB Beats archetype, hasn't received more attention lately. Especially since GWB has got a few nice tools "lately": Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay. Both has seen some play and to succes as well in BUG but they fit really well into GWB as well.

First, Deathrite Shaman is exactly GWB has missed: A mana producer. Noble Fish has always had Noble Hierarch and it has been used in GWB builds as well, but it has, in my opinion, never been optimal and instead stuff like Elvish Spirit Guide has been tried out. Deathrite Shaman is way better than Hierarch. It almost always helps you set up a strong T2 play as well as Hierarch (and from time to time even better because of its ability to produce B), and it has additional usability as a maindeck graveyard hoser. It deals unblockable damage and gains life which shouldn't be underestimated against other creature based decks.

Next, Abrupt Decay offers the deck some versatility being able to hit some of the most common creatures alongside the most common win condition and a lot of other annoying stuff. It has the added benefit of being able to take out a Chalice @ 2. It can definitely replace the sometimes too narrow Nature's Claim main deck.

I think that GWB is incredible strong and very underplayed at the moment. It has a lot of different ways of going and stuff to try out. For instance, does Thoughtseize and/or Mental Misstep have a place main deck? What about Liliana? What finisher, if any, should you play? Tarmogoyf, Scavenging Ooze or, my favorite, Knight of the Reliquary?

I'm not gonna post a list right now because I have a few different builds lying around, but I'm just wondering: Am I the only one playing GWB?

[Guli]

It is a strong archetype for sure, but lately I have been occupied with the development of Caverns.

[bax]

I'm surprised this thread, and the GWB Beats archetype, hasn't received more attention lately. Especially since GWB has got a few nice tools "lately": Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay. Both has seen some play and to succes as well in BUG but they fit really well into GWB as well.

First, Deathrite Shaman is exactly GWB has missed: A mana producer. Noble Fish has always had Noble Hierarch and it has been used in GWB builds as well, but it has, in my opinion, never been optimal and instead stuff like Elvish Spirit Guide has been tried out. Deathrite Shaman is way better than Hierarch. It almost always helps you set up a strong T2 play as well as Hierarch (and from time to time even better because of its ability to produce B), and it has additional usability as a maindeck graveyard hoser. It deals unblockable damage and gains life which shouldn't be underestimated against other creature based decks.

Next, Abrupt Decay offers the deck some versatility being able to hit some of the most common creatures alongside the most common win condition and a lot of other annoying stuff. It has the added benefit of being able to take out a Chalice @ 2. It can definitely replace the sometimes too narrow Nature's Claim main deck.

I think that GWB is incredible strong and very underplayed at the moment. It has a lot of different ways of going and stuff to try out. For instance, does Thoughtseize and/or Mental Misstep have a place main deck? What about Liliana? What finisher, if any, should you play? Tarmogoyf, Scavenging Ooze or, my favorite, Knight of the Reliquary?

I'm not gonna post a list right now because I have a few different builds lying around, but I'm just wondering: Am I the only one playing GWB?

In fact i was tinkering around with that and despite i played little vingate lately with the summer and the many modern i have played something like this in my last tournament http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=11410&iddeck=83372 .
Btw ia m playing again a Vintage tournament tomorrow and will probably bring something very similar to the one i used last time.

[StanleyAugust]

Interesting list bax. I have a few issues - I don't know if they in fact are issues but that's why I'm asking

First, your mana base doesn't seem to support Knight of the Reliquary and Deathrite Shaman that well. Has that ever been a problem?
Second, do you ever miss Stony Silence and Grafdigger's Cage in the main?

For reference, here's the list I'm toying with at the moment:

4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Windswept Heath
3 Marsh Flats
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Swamp

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet

4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Gaddock Teeg
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Scavenging Ooze

3 Stony Silence
3 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Demonic Consultation

[Guli]

My GWb looks a little different nowadays. It has three connotations: Mass acceleration, Mass hate and Good aggro control with fast and untouchable clock.

3 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Plains
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
1 Forest
1 Bayou

10 Mana dudes:
3 Lotus Cobra
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman

18 hate peaces:
4 Mental Misstep
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 True Believer
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Aven Mindcensor

Aggro control and Mana sinks
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
3 Sigarda, Host of Herons

SB: 4 Kataki, War's Wage
SB: 1 Batterskull
SB: 4 Rest in Peace
SB: 3 Glissa Sunseeker
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Manriki-Gusari

Because of all the main deck hate against blue and combo, I designed the sideboard to be good against Workshop decks. Obviously dredge is hated too and a little extra oath hate to support Believer main deck. Manriki is for enemy Batterskull tactics.

[brianpk80]

I like the premise.  Sigarda is not to be underestimated. 

[StanleyAugust]

It looks fun. However, I think your Tinker plan is too weak.

[Guli]

It looks fun. However, I think your Tinker plan is too weak.

When they do a turn 1 Tinker sure. Otherwhise you will get in a Thalia or Aven in time. Plus the 2 Cages in SB help a lot.

Also, Blightsteel is not the only Tinker target out there. Myr B.Sphere and Inkwell see play too.

You can add 2 Fiend hunter or Leonin Relic-Warder if you are that worried. Cut maybe a Savannah and a True Believer.

[StanleyAugust]

It looks fun. However, I think your Tinker plan is too weak.

When they do a turn 1 Tinker sure. Otherwhise you will get in a Thalia or Aven in time. Plus the 2 Cages in SB help a lot.

Also, Blightsteel is not the only Tinker target out there. Myr B.Sphere and Inkwell see play too.

You can add 2 Fiend hunter or Leonin Relic-Warder if you are that worried. Cut maybe a Savannah and a True Believer.

Thalia doesn't stop Tinker. Especially when you aren't playing any other mana denial at all. I just think 3 Aven Mindcensor's isn't nearly enough to deal with Tinker. But your metagame might look different than mine.

[Guli]

It looks fun. However, I think your Tinker plan is too weak.

When they do a turn 1 Tinker sure. Otherwhise you will get in a Thalia or Aven in time. Plus the 2 Cages in SB help a lot.

Also, Blightsteel is not the only Tinker target out there. Myr B.Sphere and Inkwell see play too.

You can add 2 Fiend hunter or Leonin Relic-Warder if you are that worried. Cut maybe a Savannah and a True Believer.

Thalia doesn't stop Tinker. Especially when you aren't playing any other mana denial at all. I just think 3 Aven Mindcensor's isn't nearly enough to deal with Tinker. But your metagame might look different than mine.

I don't ignore Tinker>Blight but I don't think we need to worry that much about it, there are a lot of decks that don't use it. I added 2 Relic Warders main deck taking your warning into advisement.

[WhiteLotus]

Does anyone have a list that includes Spirit of the labyrinth?

[msg67183]

Does anyone have a list that includes Spirit of the labyrinth?

There were just two decks in a top 8 at a TDG event.

[vaughnbros]

Does anyone have a list that includes Spirit of the labyrinth?

There were just two decks in a top 8 at a TDG event.

Here are those lists:
   
Ryan Glackin: Junk Hatebears
4   Dark Confidant
4   Deathrite Shaman
4   Elvish Spirit Guide
4   Qasali Pridemage
4   Spirit of the Labyrinth
4   Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3   Stoneforge Mystic
2   Aven Mindcensor
2   Abrupt Decay
1   Vampiric Tutor
1   Demonic Tutor
2   Swords to Plowshares
1   Black Lotus
1   Batterskull
1   Sword of Feast and Famine
1   Mox Emerald
1   Mox Jet
1   Mox Pearl
2   Verdant Catacombs
2   Wasteland
2   Windswept Heath
2   Marsh Flats
4   Cavern of Souls
1   Bayou
1   Forest
1   Plains
1   Savannah
1   Scrubland
1   Strip Mine
1   Swamp
   
   Sideboard
4   Grafdigger’s Cage
3   Rest in Peace
2   Kataki, War’s Wage
2   Pithing Needle
2   Swords to Plowshares
1   Umezawa’s Jitte
1   Unexpectedly Absent

Tom Dixon: Junk Hatebers
1   Eternal Witness
1   Tarmogoyf
1   Knight of the Reliquary
1   Scavenging Ooze
1   Gaddock Teeg
2   Qasali Pridemage
4   Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4   Deathrite Shaman
4   Dark Confidant
1   Vampiric Tutor
4   Thoughtseize
1   Demonic Tutor
3   Abrupt Decay
2   Green Sun’s Zenith
2   Nature’s Claim
1   Swords to Plowshares
4   Spirit of the Labyrinth
1   Null Rod
1   Mox Pearl
1   Mox Emerald
1   Mox Jet
1   Strip Mine
4   Wasteland
2   Bayou
2   Savannah
2   Scrubland
3   Verdant Catacombs
3   Windswept Heath
1   Dryad Arbor
1   Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
   
Sideboard
1   Umezawa’s Jitte
3   Swords to Plowshares
2   Kataki, War’s Wage
2   Rest in Peace
4   Grafdigger’s Cage
2   Disenchant
1   Abrupt Decay