Griselbrand

[CorwinB]

Looks like at least a potential Oath target because you get to put it to good Necro use even if you fail to attack with it.

[brokenbacon]

YUMMMMMMMMMMMMM CAAAAAAARDDDDDD ADVANTAGE OM NOM NOM
Seriously though this is a sick EDH card but not necessarily an Oath target. I really really really like the flavor though.

[MaximumCDawg]

Yeah, its pretty sweet to Oath into this fella, but I dont see why you'd want to draw 7 more cards instead of just winning.  I don't think he's got alot of advantage over Tutor Demon, Golden Gun, or Maniac. 

I think the ability (necropotence) is so strong that he may see play in OTHER decks.  Storm with Flash might be too many dead cards, but what about him as a singleton in Dragon as a way to reload?

[boggyb]

Isn't Jin-Gitaxias, err, way way better?

edit: You all are totally right -- always seem to forget just how meaningless life totals almost always are in T1

[brokenbacon]

Isn't Jin-Gitaxias, err, way way better?

I mean, if this Griselbrand guy lets you just pay life as an activated ability it's a pseudo Yawgmoth's Bargain on the back of a 7/7 Flying Lifelink - sign me the fuck up

[Archae]

Also has potential in Dredge, methinks.  Seems like an adequate DR target that could replace the Sun Titan package.

[Saya]

14draw package of Oath?

[Prospero]

This is actually kind of interesting.  Being on a 7/7 flying body matters, as that's a three turn clock, as opposed to Jin (which dies to Dismember) and needs four turns without groundpounders to get a win.  Maybe an Oath deck with Iona and this guy is good enough?  Not sure, but even if it isn't, it's a cool card regardless.

[Mith]

Oath into Yawgmoth's Bargain. Excellent.

[Guli]

Wouldn't it be interesting to use that new miracle walk card with oath and things like noxious revival? Idea is to take multiple turns and well, put that lifelink to use lol.

[Klep]

Oathing into this is definitely an interesting idea.  We used to have to sacrifice Academy Rector to make this kind of thing happen.  I don't know if it's good enough, but unlike most cards I can't dismiss it out of hand.

[DubDub]

It has potential for Oath, but then, soooooooo many things do:

Iona
Elephants
Emrakul
TTT
Rune-Scarred Demon
One-shot robot
Jin-Gitaxias
etc.

Does Oath really need an upgrade in the beatstick department?  I think not.

/This goes straight into my Damia, Sage of Stone EDH deck though.  Salivating over that.

[Klep]

Does Oath really need an upgrade in the beatstick department?  I think not.

An Oath deck using this wouldn't be using it as a beatstick. It would be using it to storm the opponent out.

[Worldslayer]

Natural home is Oath, but why bother drawing 14 cards when you can just "walk it out" with demons? The others like blightsteel and iona and terastadon and emrakul I could see competition for, as his ability is arguably better in vintage than Ionas or Terastadons, and blightsteel and emrakul probably only end the game faster with a dragons breath, the downside of which is that you're running cards like dragons breath. So really he's only a contender if you're not playing Demon Oath.

Second home is anything that wants access to more than one Yawgmoth's Bargain but doesn't feel like playing AdNauseum. Some kind of strategy that can execute "show and tell in bacongrisle/bargain, draw 14/x cards, kill you, tendrils for some amount, repeat process if you're not dead yet" seems like a starting point, though its basically the same old story of big blue trying to resolve something for 2U that puts something stupid into play.

[MaximumCDawg]

Natural home is Oath, but why bother drawing 14 cards when you can just "walk it out" with demons? The others like blightsteel and iona and terastadon and emrakul I could see competition for, as his ability is arguably better in vintage than Ionas or Terastadons, and blightsteel and emrakul probably only end the game faster with a dragons breath, the downside of which is that you're running cards like dragons breath. So really he's only a contender if you're not playing Demon Oath.

Second home is anything that wants access to more than one Yawgmoth's Bargain but doesn't feel like playing AdNauseum. Some kind of strategy that can execute "show and tell in bacongrisle/bargain, draw 14/x cards, kill you, tendrils for some amount, repeat process if you're not dead yet" seems like a starting point, though its basically the same old story of big blue trying to resolve something for 2U that puts something stupid into play.

That's what I'm saying.  How many ways are there to cheat this guy into play, and how many slots do they eat up in a deck that otherwise is just trying to storm out?  I feel like the deck that could use this card best - and not worry about tons of dead slots - is Worldgorger Dragon combo.  Here's why:

(1) Oath (5 dead slots, Grislebrand and Oath of Druids, and 4 land slots, forbidden orchard)

This takes up alot of room in a storm deck, but it fills your yard so you can Past in Flames or Yawgmoth's Will for the win that turn.  If you can draw 7 cards once or even twice, this should be very possible.

(2) Flash (2 - 6 dead slots)

This seems unlikely, since you have to get both cards in your hand to go off.  Two card combo that draws 7 cards and is dead individually...? 

(3) Aethermage's Touch (2 - 8 dead slots)

Cute and unrestricted, but too expensive.

(4) Reanimation spells (1 dead slot)

These have some possibilities; I really like the idea of Grislebrand in a Dragon deck.  It's already running reanimation spells and it really likes to draw 7 cards.

(5) Show and Tell / Sneak Attack / Through the Breach (2 - 8 dead slots)

This is potentially better than Flash since it's not restricted.  Still, what deck wants more Wheel effects (you already have Wheel of Fortune and Timetwister) and is willing to dedicate so many slots to the effect?  Fine for Legacy, probably not for Vintage.

(6) Fold into Aether ( 2 - 8 dead slots)

Cute combo in a legacy kobolds type deck maybe, but seems way to expensive for Vintage.

(7) Hunting Grounds (2 - 8 dead slots)

Potentially interesting, but you'd need a new deck type build around it.

(8) Hypergenesis / Living End (whole dead deck)

Is being able to draw 7 after going off enough to make this Vintage playable?  I doubt it, since these decks' problem in Vintage was not winning after going off, it was going off in the first place.

(9) Kaalia the Vast / Quicksilver Amulet / Piper / etc ( 2 - 7 dead slots)

If Kaalia was something other than a 2/2 vanilla flier on her own, this might be worth a look.  As is, she's an easily disrupted, overcosted Show and Tell in bad colors.  No good.  The same goes for the rest of these cheat-creatures-out cards; they're just crappy and expensive on their own.

(10) Dream Halls (???)

NOW we're talking.  This combination seems incredibly strong.  Dream Halls out Grislebrand, draw 7, and if you havn't drawn Conflux and the win yet, what's wrong with you.  I feel like this would be a subpar deck because the critical piece costs 5 mana, but then again, so does Tezzeret. 

(11) Shifty Doppleganger (2 - 8 dead slots)

Too expensive; 7 mana over two turns to make it work.

(12) Wild Pair / Gigantomancer Combo (whole dead deck)

This is just for the LOLs, but since Grisle is a 7/7, you can accelerate into a Gigantomancer with alot of mana dorks, then respond to the Wild Pair triggers by making your new dork into a 7/7, fetch Grislebrand, draw 7 cards, and next turn swing with an army of 7/7s.  Kitchen table stuff, but funny!

[Worldslayer]

CDawg, I feel that at the point that through the breach and friends are considered, Necrotic Ooze deserves at least a mention, especially alongside anything that can convert cards in hand to something else repeatedly, like a BUG vengevine/madness bazaar build. We're reaching pretty deep at this point, but you mentioned fold into the aether and kobolds :p bazaar bins the big dumb fatty, ooze draws a ton of cards, wild mongrel or his ability pitches any and all vengevines and some rootwallas or some junk, forces in hand stop shenanigans in any window they have before they're dead.

Also important is that bacon grisle only draws 7 cards if your life is at 14 or lower. Otherwise he draws 14, which in vintage will equate to "win the stupid game" a large portion of the time. Even if it doesn't immediately kill them.

[MaximumCDawg]

CDawg, I feel that at the point that through the breach and friends are considered, Necrotic Ooze deserves at least a mention, especially alongside anything that can convert cards in hand to something else repeatedly, like a BUG vengevine/madness bazaar build. We're reaching pretty deep at this point, but you mentioned fold into the aether and kobolds :p bazaar bins the big dumb fatty, ooze draws a ton of cards, wild mongrel or his ability pitches any and all vengevines and some rootwallas or some junk, forces in hand stop shenanigans in any window they have before they're dead.

Also important is that bacon grisle only draws 7 cards if your life is at 14 or lower. Otherwise he draws 14, which in vintage will equate to "win the stupid game" a large portion of the time. Even if it doesn't immediately kill them.

Very true!  I was searching the gatherer for ways to cheat out Grislebrand and totally missed that there were now cards that copy effects in the yard.  Even so, Ooze is in the 2 - 8 dead slots category, since an Ooze without Brand is pretty stinky.  At a minimum, I guess he goes into my casual Ooze/Elvish Abberation/Pilli-palla/Prodigal Sorcerer combo deck.

[Delha]

I'm no Oath player, but this seems stronger than Demon against countermagic. Or is it just assumed that a resolved Oath means you've already fought through whatever they've got?

Also, I could see it being hypothetically better against Shops, where you can potentially be locked out of chaining Walks. The draw digs up mana for you, and even if you're tapping down to play your Moxen, it means you're hitting you're consistently digging your way out. I know there are far better fatties to hate out artifacts with, but those are typically more narrow, yes?

[policehq]

Does Oath really need an upgrade in the beatstick department?  I think not.

An Oath deck using this wouldn't be using it as a beatstick. It would be using it to storm the opponent out.

Why would you dilute your deck with all the storm stuff? Drawing 7-14 cards is just fine for controlling the game, and a 7/7 would kill.

[Worldslayer]

Griselbrand is sort of a "middle of the road" guy when it comes to Oath. He's better against blue than Iona Elephant or BSC, better against STAX than demon: but worse than demon vs. Blue by a little and worse than something like Terastadon or Emrakul against STAX. He's always going to be "good", but rarely the blowout play in line with his alternatives. A few years ago, when ideally a vintage deck had game vs. Everyone and that was a good thing, griselbrand would be so good it could make your pants go camping. Now, though, every format in Magic (perhaps especially vintage) is about rolling a rock/paper/scissors game and choosing your blowouts. Bacon grisle doesn't "blow out" anything except maybe the blue decks, which means he probably gets "blown out" by pretty much everything. He even takes 3 turns to kill on an open board. What is this, Akroma era Oath?

[Oath of Happy]

This will definitely be the new Dredge target to run aside FKZ.  As far as Oath, I think it also has potential in there since it kind of does win on the spot since can rip force's and tutors off it.

[MaximumCDawg]

Oh god, I do not want to see this get reanimated in Dredge.  But, I guess, once they resolve Dread Return you're a dead man anyway.

[DubDub]

Does Oath really need an upgrade in the beatstick department?  I think not.

An Oath deck using this wouldn't be using it as a beatstick. It would be using it to storm the opponent out.

I did not mean beatstick as in "way of dealing 20+ damage through combat", I meant as in "fatty that's only going to be Oath'd into play".  Yes, this guy draws (probably) 14 cards immediately, (probably) fueling a storm win.  But that's AFTER Oath has activated.  That's my point, that a new fatty is unimportant.  Maybe this guy enables a way to build the rest of the Oath deck that's better, but I doubt it.  I think, working in this general family of decks, TTT is a better storm enabler that can also lock out an opponent, and that RSD is part of a better combo-Oath deck.

The only other thing that hasn't been mentioned is that this guy is Legendary, so you sacrifice the ability to Oath twice to give your deck consistency.

[mort-]

This will definitely be the new Dredge target to run aside FKZ.  As far as Oath, I think it also has potential in there since it kind of does win on the spot since can rip force's and tutors off it.

Yes. This is going to be absolutely insane. You do not have to chain-dr Sun Titans now to kill, just one big, fat demon and your deck will be drawn in an instant. So -3 Sun Titan, +2 Griselbrand. If you fill up that last slot with the fourth Dread Return, you could exchange FKZ with Flayer of the Hatebound, enabling a kill without depending on other zombie tokens, the combat step or even bridges in your graveyard.
Way too good.

[boggyb]

Note its interaction with Flayer, too: if Griselbrand DRs back into play alongside a Flayer, you gain 7 and can draw yet again.

[A.-1.]

In terms of comboing out: Tidespout is probably better and can be abusive in multiples, whereas this Legendary chump cannot. RSD is almost guaranteed to find whatever combo piece you need. This guy is more of a 7-card shot in the dark, potentially 14 if Spirit tokens haven't been chipping away at you. To ensure it's the first fatty you Oath up, you'd only be able to run this creature. I'd rather just run the Iona/Memory's Journey/Timetwister package instead. Turning it sideways draws you another seven because of the Lifelink, but wouldn't you rather just win with BSC or Emrakul?

I was initially excited for this card's implications in Oath. It's unfortunate that it probably isn't playable there, but at least it can find a home elsewhere.

TL;DR - I agree with what everyone else has been saying for the most part.

[Meddling Mike]

Oath into Yawgmoth's Bargain. Excellent.

This was sort of my first thought on this card. Reminds me of the Academy Rector Oath decks from back in the day. Oathing this up seems to have it's own strengths and weaknesses relative to that. With Academy Rector you needed to hit Cabal Therapy, but not your Bargain. You'd have some alternative to Bargain available with Future Sight, it had nice synergy in the event that you pulled the combo off twice. So you did have to run junk like Future Sight and there was a higher chance of Oathing but not winning. That combo didn't leave you behind a 7/7 Flying Lifelink guy either, which can certainly matter. I suppose it is somewhat cumbersome to have to bargain in increments of 7, if your life total is <=14 you might only get the one activation, but every turn thereafter that your Griselbrand connects you can grab a fresh 7. I suppose a mini-tendrils could help with this issue as well. Certainly an interesting Oath target. We'll see how it shakes out.

[Blue Lotus]

Shallow grave + this guy = 2 mana super bargain. Holy Moly.

[TheWhiteDragon]

Shallow grave + this guy = 2 mana super bargain. Holy Moly.

Hmm...ritual, entomb, shallow grave = draw 21.  With 4 duress/seize/unmask, you could potentially turn 1 draw 21 and rip your opponent's hand to nothing, while setting up a win for the next turn.

Of course, if they surgical extraction your Griselbrand, you just blew your hand for nothing.  Guess that's the cost of balls to the wall.

[Blue Lotus]

Also, since you're hitting for seven, you don't have to storm as much.