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Author Topic: Omniscience  (Read 6172 times)
bactgudz
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« on: June 21, 2012, 06:47:10 am »

Omniscience 7uuu

Enchantment (mythic)
You may cast nonland cards from your hand without paying their mana cost.

One sided Dream Halls that doesn't require pitching...has potential with Academy Rector and/or Show and Tell I suppose.
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The Atog Lord
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« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2012, 06:52:37 am »

Welcome to my Azami EDH deck!

If we're just Showing things, I wonder if we're just better off Showing them Griselbrand.
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« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2012, 08:13:15 am »

If I Rector in an enchantment, why would I want infi mana over cards AND mana (ie. Yawgmoth's Bargain)?
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« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2012, 08:16:14 am »

I just saw this spoiled, it is truly powerful, most likely game ending (or should be if you are designing a deck around it) when it hits the board.

Atog Lord, you could cast Griselbrand for free after you cast this enchantment Wink
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Daenyth
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« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2012, 08:19:23 am »

Spheres still hit the spells you cast as well.
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« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2012, 10:00:34 am »

When I saw this I first thought that a combo deck with Replenish to get this into play fast. 

Maybe something like:

Careful Study
Reckless Looting
Mental Note/Neo Mental Note
Frantic Search

Force of Will
Daze

Replenish
Show and Tell
Omniscience

Potential Kills:
Opalesence (Add in Leylines of the Void and Sanctity for more fatties)
Genju of the Realm
Form of the Dragon
Emrakul

More than likely it is 1-2 turns too slow to have a chance in Legacy
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« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2012, 10:10:02 am »

How to break Ominscience in Legacy? Here:

Ancient Tomb, Lotus Petal, Show and Tell, Omniscience, Griselbrand, draw 14, Emrakul, extra turn, kill you? Seems strong and can be in a mono U shell. Nice. Cheaper in £££s than Sneak Attack too. Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain and Personal Tutor to find S&T? Sweet.
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2012, 10:29:35 am »

Show and Tell is the wrong primary enabler for this card, I contend.  As a one or two of in your deck, just in case?  Sure.  But, I think Academy Rector is by far superior and potentially very, very powerful.  Here's why:

(1) With Rector, you only want a singleton Omniscience in your deck.  The rest of your deck is all about finding and resolving a Rector.  

(2) With Rector, you get 4x more Demonic Tutors for your combo and your kill in the form of Eladarmi's Call.  

(3) With Rector, your kill is also a single card, probably Emrakul / Grislebrand or both.  

I'm envisioning a deck where the core is like this:

Combo (17)
4x Academy Rector
1x Flash
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Innocent Blood
4x High Market

Win Con (4)
3x Ominscience, Grislebrand, Emrakul
1x Abyssal Persecutor

Tutors (7)
3x Demonic, Vampiric, Imperial Seal
4x Eladarmi's Call

Countermagic (13)
4x Force of Will
3x Mana Drain
3x Flusterstorm
2x Spell Pierce
1x Misdirection

Lands / Mana  (20)

On paper, this general shell seems really attractive.  The goal is to tutor into a Rector, and kill it using a variety of great mutli-purpose sac outlets (Cabal to stop countermagic and answers, high market to keep oath at bay, innocent blood to stop fish/aggro), then grab Omniscience.  All you need is one of the deck's 7 tutors to then win the game; you tutor into Emrakul if the enemy has no gas, and if he or she does, you tutor in to Grislebrand, draw 7 - 14, use a new tutor you drew for Emrakul, then swing and win on your free turn.  Percy's there just as a thought; if you can't combo you can grab a huge beatstick that might get there all by himself.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 10:39:35 am by MaximumCDawg » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2012, 10:41:10 am »

CDawg, that's an interesting idea. But is Abyssal Persecutor really the way to go? He seems sort of random.

I wonder if having Bargain in the deck would be powerful, since there's a Rector already?

Oath might even be able to be worked into this shell.
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2012, 10:43:36 am »

CDawg, that's an interesting idea. But is Abyssal Persecutor really the way to go? He seems sort of random.

I wonder if having Bargain in the deck would be powerful, since there's a Rector already?

Oath might even be able to be worked into this shell.

Oath totally works (minus random one of Percy - he gets around yard hate) for all purposes.  Maybe it goes in instead of some of the other tutors?  Or reduce the land count?  I dunno.  I could see swapping something out for +4 Oath / +1 Show and Tell / +2 Channel or something.  I think you'd want the deck then to be nothing but one-card win conditions, tutors,  and countermagic, then.
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AmbivalentDuck
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« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2012, 11:50:53 am »

Is this better than Cascade-Hypergenesis?  I'm a fan of one-card combos myself.
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« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2012, 12:04:40 pm »

Is this better than Cascade-Hypergenesis?  I'm a fan of one-card combos myself.

Ima say yes it is better.  Hypergeneis requires you to be playing with a bunch of dead weight so you have stuff in your hand to dump out.  I can see this sort of shell doing things even before it is able to combo off.  Plus, 3W is probably easier to generate than any of the cascade costs.  Moreover, Omniscience is one-sided, so your opponent is not dropping their own Grislebrand or Jace in response.  Finally, Omniscience should win immediately (since Emrakul's timewalk clause triggers) whereas Hypergenesis might have to pass the turn.
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AmbivalentDuck
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« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2012, 12:39:53 pm »

Is this better than Cascade-Hypergenesis?  I'm a fan of one-card combos myself.

Ima say yes it is better.  Hypergeneis requires you to be playing with a bunch of dead weight so you have stuff in your hand to dump out.  I can see this sort of shell doing things even before it is able to combo off.  Plus, 3W is probably easier to generate than any of the cascade costs.  Moreover, Omniscience is one-sided, so your opponent is not dropping their own Grislebrand or Jace in response.  Finally, Omniscience should win immediately (since Emrakul's timewalk clause triggers) whereas Hypergenesis might have to pass the turn.
3W is almost certainly harder than  {1} {G} {U}. As far as dead weight, I don't think it's there.

2 Hypergenesis
4 Shardless Agent
4 Violent Outburst
4 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack

4 Griselbrand
4 Emrakul

8 pitch counters

8 Spirit Guide
18 mana sources

The big advantage to not using Hypergenesis is that you get to run non-pitch countermagic.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 12:42:41 pm by AmbivalentDuck » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2012, 12:54:17 pm »

If you run Oath, then I recommend Rasputin, Dreamweaver with Replenish and Recoup so you can Recoup Replenish.  That could potentially get This card and Bargain at once.
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« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2012, 03:54:11 pm »

WTF now we can CAST Emurakul so easily...i can't believe the card
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2012, 12:31:21 am »

WTF now we can CAST Emurakul so easily...i can't believe the card

To be fair, cheating Emrakul into play after cheating ANOTHER super expensive card into play isn't really worlds different from how it was before.  I can only see a way for this card because you can chain so many tutors together to both get Omni AND finish the job after you do.  Telling ya, smart money is on Eladrami's Call as a way to abuse this. (P.S. I have no idea where the smart money is)
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« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2012, 06:16:23 am »

We already have a creature that reads "Pay 7 life: Win the game" and an enchantment that is just "Win the Game" so I don't see the point of this.  We even have an enchantment that costs half as much and makes all your spells free.  In Type 2 that creature rotates out exactly the same time as Omniscience and is a lot easier to cheat into play.  This card just makes all of your one "stage" combos 2 stage, and makes them all less consistent because you need to have multiple cards in hand after your initial combo, whether it is Show and Tell or Hypergenesis. 

Obviously this can be super fun in casual, but that is about the only use I see for it.
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brianpk80
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« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2012, 06:50:26 pm »

In my experience, making a Rector deck to abuse an enchantment begins as an exciting prospect that "improves" by adding Oath of Druids and then further "improves" by transitioning into an Oath deck entirely.  For whatever it's worth, the Rector approach does benefit now from not being affected by Cage and from the abundance of creatures attacking.  It can be made uncounterable w. a Cavern, but even with those benefits, I give the nod to Oath of Druids.   
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« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2012, 08:55:48 pm »

This card has rules text that reads like a powerful engine, but is costed like a finisher; a combination shared by many Vintage unplayables.
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