Deadbridge Goliath

[AmbivalentDuck]

THIS CARD WILL NOT SEE VINTAGE PLAY

MTG Salvation has clear confirmation and the mechanic could be relevant in Dredge or Guli.dec.

Deadbridge Goliath
Critter - Insect
Scavenge   ( , Exile this card from your graveyard: Put X +1/+1 counters on target creature, where X is this card's power. Scavenge only as a Sorcery.)
5/5

The first time around it's a 5/5 for 4. The second time around, it's a 5/5 with haste for 6. In my mind, the best comparison is Call of the Herd. Given that a named mechanic indicates at least a cycle, it seems reasonable to expect a bear or better for with Scavenge 3 or 4. Seems like that would rock the critter/Goyf mirror and the aggro brown matchup.  Thoughts?

[mikekilljoy]

It won't be relevant in Dredge, at least not in Vintage where Dredge generally has no mana.

[MaximumCDawg]

This mechanic is boring and reminds me of Reinforce, which is also boring.  Certainly playable if they make something where the body and costs are right, but still boring.  Really a big let down, considering Dredge was such a game-dynamic changing mechanic.

In standard, this is a 5/5 for 4 plus an ability, which is above the curve and will probably be played.  I can't see this card being played in Vintage at all, but I also can't see ANY card with this mechanic as its only ability being Vintage playable.  How many cards in Vintage see play that only make creatures bigger?  Berserk, sometimes?  They could certainly make it playable by under costing the creature or the effect, but then they'd break standard, so that seems unlikely.

I see nothing interesting here yet.

[Wagner]

This mechanic is boring and reminds me of Reinforce, which is also boring.  Certainly playable if they make something where the body and costs are right, but still boring.  Really a big let down, considering Dredge was such a game-dynamic changing mechanic.

In standard, this is a 5/5 for 4 plus an ability, which is above the curve and will probably be played.  I can't see this card being played in Vintage at all, but I also can't see ANY card with this mechanic as its only ability being Vintage playable.  How many cards in Vintage see play that only make creatures bigger?  Berserk, sometimes?  They could certainly make it playable by under costing the creature or the effect, but then they'd break standard, so that seems unlikely.

I see nothing interesting here yet.

Reinforce was boring and bad since you had to just throw away a card for a crappy effect, and all the cards that had it were themselves crappy and unplayable except in limited. This on the other hand means you get a second use of your creature, which is a sort of flashback for creatures only. It's already a step up since it's more polyvalent, but since it seems the only thing it can do is add +1+1 counters, it is not that amazing.

Let's see if they make a card like:

Big Scavenge Guy
4BBGG
When Big Scavenge Guy comes into play, sacrifice 2 creatures.
8/8
Scavenge 2GB

[AmbivalentDuck]

It won't be relevant in Dredge, at least not in Vintage where Dredge generally has no mana.

I would expect the uncommon to be a bear and the common to a 1/1 for C with Scavenge 1 or 2. I think Scavenge 1 for +1/+1 or +2/+2 could be playable in Dredge.   Consider that they may also print a 10 mana 2/2 whose entire point of existence is a scavenge cost of .

Also, I think we can all agree that Scavenge for on a 20/20 would see heavy vintage play. They won't print it, but the mechanic can conceivably be broken.

[MaximumCDawg]

This mechanic is boring and reminds me of Reinforce, which is also boring.  Certainly playable if they make something where the body and costs are right, but still boring.  Really a big let down, considering Dredge was such a game-dynamic changing mechanic.

In standard, this is a 5/5 for 4 plus an ability, which is above the curve and will probably be played.  I can't see this card being played in Vintage at all, but I also can't see ANY card with this mechanic as its only ability being Vintage playable.  How many cards in Vintage see play that only make creatures bigger?  Berserk, sometimes?  They could certainly make it playable by under costing the creature or the effect, but then they'd break standard, so that seems unlikely.

I see nothing interesting here yet.

Reinforce was boring and bad since you had to just throw away a card for a crappy effect, and all the cards that had it were themselves crappy and unplayable except in limited. This on the other hand means you get a second use of your creature, which is a sort of flashback for creatures only. It's already a step up since it's more polyvalent, but since it seems the only thing it can do is add +1+1 counters, it is not that amazing.

Let's see if they make a card like:

Big Scavenge Guy
4BBGG
When Big Scavenge Guy comes into play, sacrifice 2 creatures.
8/8
Scavenge 2GB

I don't even think that would see play.  Would you play this card in Vintage:

2GB - Put 8 +1/+1 counters on target creature.

Because the card you designed is actually worse than this, requiring a way to pitch it and only happening at sorcery speed.

Now, I grant you, if you started talking about something that Scavenged for G or U and gave a creature +6/+6 or more, you just MIGHT start to have a point, because then even a lowly Hierarch becomes a three-turn clock and you are giving a bonus comparable to a medium-sized Berserk on a Quiron Dryad.  But they would never print something so strong because it would WRECK standard with all the yard-enabling hijinks in Avacyn Restored. 

[Wagner]

This mechanic is boring and reminds me of Reinforce, which is also boring.  Certainly playable if they make something where the body and costs are right, but still boring.  Really a big let down, considering Dredge was such a game-dynamic changing mechanic.

In standard, this is a 5/5 for 4 plus an ability, which is above the curve and will probably be played.  I can't see this card being played in Vintage at all, but I also can't see ANY card with this mechanic as its only ability being Vintage playable.  How many cards in Vintage see play that only make creatures bigger?  Berserk, sometimes?  They could certainly make it playable by under costing the creature or the effect, but then they'd break standard, so that seems unlikely.

I see nothing interesting here yet.

Reinforce was boring and bad since you had to just throw away a card for a crappy effect, and all the cards that had it were themselves crappy and unplayable except in limited. This on the other hand means you get a second use of your creature, which is a sort of flashback for creatures only. It's already a step up since it's more polyvalent, but since it seems the only thing it can do is add +1+1 counters, it is not that amazing.

Let's see if they make a card like:

Big Scavenge Guy
4BBGG
When Big Scavenge Guy comes into play, sacrifice 2 creatures.
8/8
Scavenge 2GB

I don't even think that would see play.  Would you play this card in Vintage:

2GB - Put 8 +1/+1 counters on target creature.

Because the card you designed is actually worse than this, requiring a way to pitch it and only happening at sorcery speed.

Now, I grant you, if you started talking about something that Scavenged for G or U and gave a creature +6/+6 or more, you just MIGHT start to have a point, because then even a lowly Hierarch becomes a three-turn clock and you are giving a bonus comparable to a medium-sized Berserk on a Quiron Dryad.  But they would never print something so strong because it would WRECK standard with all the yard-enabling hijinks in Avacyn Restored. 

No, of course no one would play that in Vintage, but I was talking how that woudl compare to Reinforce, which had no variety whatsoever and wasn't played at all. If they do a card like I suggested, at least it would see play in some formats, just not Vintage.

[BruiZar]

Scavenge seems interesting. I'm sure there will be something broken. Ravnica was one of the most popular blocks ever and they will not make this a worst experience.

Also, I could see some utility creatures that use counters as a resource, think Spike Feeder and Wickerbough Elder. Perhaps there will be a Graveshell Scarab like card, which will return to play if there is a creature with a +1/+1 counter on it. Then, we could also get a creature that can put counters on any permanent (not just +1/+1 but any counters).

There are quiet a few options for this mechanic to be useful. Also, scavenge G +20/+20 would see play.

[MaximumCDawg]

There are quiet a few options for this mechanic to be useful. Also, scavenge G +20/+20 would see play.

Sure it would.

Now, I grant you, if you started talking about something that Scavenged for G or U and gave a creature +6/+6 or more, you just MIGHT start to have a point, because then even a lowly Hierarch becomes a three-turn clock and you are giving a bonus comparable to a medium-sized Berserk on a Quiron Dryad.  

But this won't happen.  Such a card, giving +20/+20 in the same block as Avacyn, would be completely busted.  Once its in the yard, it's GG if a creature ever is able to attack?  The best you could hope for on the Broken Stuff scale is going to be something like +4/+4 or +5/+5, I bet.  Nothing game-ending.  I bet.

[Blue Lotus]

Very strong in limited.

In standard its basically a reverse wolfir silverheart, and probably not as good. Though this guy + strangleroot geist is pretty great vs sweepers like bonfire. Pretty nuts with with thrun on the table.

Wait what forum is this?

Also, I want to play rancor in vintage.

[MaximumCDawg]

Also, I want to play rancor in vintage.

You can get a few LOLwins in Vintage using 13-land-mono-green-infect.  That uses Rancor sometimes.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Wait what forum is this?

There's a legitimate question we debate from time to time: how big does a vanilla critter or pump effect need to be before it would see Vintage play?

I can say with confidence that unrestricted, unerrata-ed Zodiac Dragon would see play with Wild Mongrel. Phyrexian Dreadnought sees no play at 1 plus Stifle for a 12/12 trample since Mental Misstep pwns Stifle. Tinker sees play at 2U plus an artifact for an 11/11 infect, indestructible. 

I honestly believe that this mechanic giving: +3/+3 for C, +7/+7/ for CC, and +20/+20 for CCC would all see vintage play.

[zimagic]

I honestly believe that this mechanic giving: +3/+3 for C, +7/+7/ for CC, and +20/+20 for CCC would all see vintage play.

The first would only see play if it was attached to an aggressive beater, +3/+3 at sorcery speed is just not good enough. You'll always want evasion or utility over vanilla, even with the after-death boost effect.

[AmbivalentDuck]

I honestly believe that this mechanic giving: +3/+3 for C, +7/+7/ for CC, and +20/+20 for CCC would all see vintage play.

The first would only see play if it was attached to an aggressive beater, +3/+3 at sorcery speed is just not good enough. You'll always want evasion or utility over vanilla, even with the after-death boost effect.

A vanilla 3/3 for G would see Vintage play. Feel free to quote that forever.

[rmn]

I honestly believe that this mechanic giving: +3/+3 for C, +7/+7/ for CC, and +20/+20 for CCC would all see vintage play.

The first would only see play if it was attached to an aggressive beater, +3/+3 at sorcery speed is just not good enough. You'll always want evasion or utility over vanilla, even with the after-death boost effect.

A vanilla 3/3 for G would see Vintage play. Feel free to quote that forever.

I don't even know about this.  A vanilla 3/3 would only take down one Guli bear in a fair fight, and doesn't have the extra utility.  Goyf takes down at least two, and Delver doesn't care.  With Moxen in the picture 2/2s come down first turn anyway.  Would there be a place for this outside of Stompy?  Because as much as I would LOVE seeing Stompy come back, I'm not sure this would push it over the edge.

This is rapidly becoming my favorite thread ever.

[vaughnbros]

A vanilla 3/3 for G would see Vintage play. Feel free to quote that forever.

I know wild nactl is worse than vanilla, but it is 1 mana and not horribly difficult to turn it into a 3/3.  And there is always the good ol ROGUE ELEPHANT.

I agree with rmn though even if a 3/3 for G without a drawback existed your probably better off paying 1 more mana for goyf.  Now I'd be nearly 100% certain a 3/1 for U would see play.

[Blue Lotus]

A vanilla 3/3 for G would see Vintage play. Feel free to quote that forever.

I mean thats not really a bold claim considering it will never be proved right or wrong.

[Guli]

If the 3/3 for   would be a Human, it would really be a powerhouse with Mayor/Bob/Thalia strategies. But I would prefer a 2 drop that would give hexproof to all humans.  mana cost with 2/1 body or something.

The new mechanic does look interesting, let's see what the rest of the set will give us.

[BruiZar]

Delver is already being played, so a condition-less delver would see play too. 3/3 blocks lodestone golem dead

There is actually already a 'combo' in standard with Goliath.


Hey look, it's a 3/3 for 1 mana

[Darkenslight]

Delver is already being played, so a condition-less delver would see play too. 3/3 blocks lodestone golem dead

There is actually already a 'combo' in standard with Goliath.


Hey look, it's a 3/3 for 1 mana

WITH FLYING, no less!  That's insane.  And it gets bigger, too!

/s

Ona  more serious note, I think the Scavenge abilities spoiled so far have been too overcosted for my tastes although there are corner cases (2 BSC starign at one another, for example).

[AmbivalentDuck]

Ona  more serious note, I think the Scavenge abilities spoiled so far have been too overcosted for my tastes although there are corner cases (2 BSC starign at one another, for example).

both spoils have had aggressive PT to cost ratios and high scavenge costs. The reverse is conceivable.

[AmbivalentDuck]

And here's that aggressive cost we were discussing:

Costed like this, it makes sense to talk about Bloodghasts beating Lodestones in combat.

[xouman]

Since bloodghasts cannot block, and golems blocking bloodghasts normally involves creating more zombies (but with this card you kill the blocking golem, exiling bridges), it seems a bad reason to play it.

Maybe in a deck that takes profit from +1/+1 mechanic? Does not seem vintage playable...

[AmbivalentDuck]

Maybe moebas are the better target since they fly. Consider that even with a cage in play, you can hardcast a moeba, then start swinging with a 5/5 flier.

[vaughnbros]

Things that I like about slitherhead in dredge:
1. At 1 mana its actually castable making it a relevant play against hate
2. Its adds to clock speed when your going dredge crazy
3. Its a black creature for ichorid and a black card for unmask

Things I dont like:
1. Its a 1/1 vanilla on the table nothing impressive
2. It doesnt add much to the clock when dredging only giving a single +1/+1 counter

With how tight the space is in dredge lists now I think it would be difficult to find space for this in a traditional list, but it is nice to have more choices for cards that increase the clock for dredge.