[RtR] Rest in Peace

[Sloth]

From here: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=448012



Best dredge hoser ever (casting cost aside)?  

Best pic I could find added.

[StanleyAugust]

Wow, this is indeed pretty amazing. Seems as though UWx Bomberman, Confidant/Snapcaster etc. variants will be even more on the rise now as well as GWx beats.

[Saya]

Great...

[Nefarias]

Wow, this is indeed pretty amazing. Seems as though UWx Bomberman, Confidant/Snapcaster etc. variants will be even more on the rise now as well as GWx beats.

The effect is symmetrical, so Bomberman and Snapcaster decks aren't the best fit. This card is still very pushed, and I approve. I think GWx is the real winner here.

[KrauserKrauser]

Pretty sweet.  Only usable by a relatively narrow spectrum of the decks, but it's pretty brutal on Dredge.

[psyburat]

A proactive enchantment is exactly what Dredge is not built to deal with primarily right now.  I'm a fan.

[Prospero]

A proactive enchantment is exactly what Dredge is not built to deal with primarily right now.  I'm a fan.

Agreed, but this will shut off your Goyfs and Oozes, meaning that this requires altering your threat base/boarding strategies, no?

How do you typically board against Dredge?  Would this change your boarding?

[psyburat]

A proactive enchantment is exactly what Dredge is not built to deal with primarily right now.  I'm a fan.

Agreed, but this will shut off your Goyfs and Oozes, meaning that this requires altering your threat base/boarding strategies, no?

How do you typically board against Dredge?  Would this change your boarding?

At this point, I have Stony Silence coming out for Scavenging Ooze, but my entire build is a lame duck towards Dredge strategies overall.  If Rest in Peace were to replace Scavenging Ooze in my current build, my boarding strategy would be -4 Tarmogoyf -4 Stony Silence +3 Trygon Predator +1 Dismember +4 Rest in Peace, but I imagine once the dust has settled the changes to my build will be much more dramatic than that.

[StanleyAugust]

Wow, this is indeed pretty amazing. Seems as though UWx Bomberman, Confidant/Snapcaster etc. variants will be even more on the rise now as well as GWx beats.

The effect is symmetrical, so Bomberman and Snapcaster decks aren't the best fit. This card is still very pushed, and I approve. I think GWx is the real winner here.

Oh, that's right. I must learn to read. Your probably right about GWx then. I'm definitely psyched about probably being able to actually build a really competive GW deck once the dust has settled.

GWx has some really good weapons against Workshop and Dredge now.

[ramrodjon]

A proactive enchantment is exactly what Dredge is not built to deal with primarily right now.  I'm a fan.

Agreed, but this will shut off your Goyfs and Oozes, meaning that this requires altering your threat base/boarding strategies, no?

How do you typically board against Dredge?  Would this change your boarding?

At this point, I have Stony Silence coming out for Scavenging Ooze, but my entire build is a lame duck towards Dredge strategies overall.  If Rest in Peace were to replace Scavenging Ooze in my current build, my boarding strategy would be -4 Tarmogoyf -4 Stony Silence +3 Trygon Predator +1 Dismember +4 Rest in Peace, but I imagine once the dust has settled the changes to my build will be much more dramatic than that.

This card looks great against Dredge and hoses Yawg-Will strategies, too.  Would Fish use this in addition to the 4x Cage then disregard the Rav-Traps? 

[Meddling Mike]

The symmetry of the card and the casting cost are very prohibitive in terms of what decks this can go in. If anything, this strikes me as a SB card for various aggro deck with white in them. You can probably board them in for your Tarmogoyfs since they won't be as impressive if you manage to keep this thing on the table. Beyond that, I think this still has some stiff competition from Leyline of the Void. I suppose it depends on the build, but I don't think many aggro decks with white run a full boat of fast mana, so this might actually be a turn 2 play, which might be too slow. Throw in a wasteland/strip mine on turn 1 for their Bazaar and now we're talking about turn 3, although that still leaves you in pretty good shape. It's clearly got some nice advantages with the ability to realistically cast it from your hand and the CITB Tormod's Crypt activation. It's an enchantment, so you can still expect plenty of answers from Dredge out of the board that will probably be coming in: Nature's Claim and Wispmare immediately come to mind. I'm sure it'll find it's niche and pop up someplace, but this is nothing Dredge shouldn't be able to fight through.

[xouman]

This card cannot be maindeckable. Cage is MD in some circunstances because aggro decks are quite afraid of tinker and oath, even more than YW (at least a good percentage). While 1W is worse than 0 (tormod's), seems quite castable and the effect is heavy, but i think i'll only side in against dredge.

[Guli]

Hehehe, come to daddy...

[brokenbacon]

So.... a 2 mana Leyline/Crypt.... sign me the fuck up. Splashing white.
THIS SET IS THE NUTS.

[mikekilljoy]

Beyond that, I think this still has some stiff competition from Leyline of the Void.

I'm sorry, but I don't think that is anything close to a true statement. Yes, the turn 0 Lelyine is always strong, but outside of that effect, which would W/B/x decks rather have? A 2 mana enchantment or a 4 mana one? Clearly, it would be the two mana one. Furthermore, Dredge decks know that they have to beat a Leyline, because it is there right away. I think of Rest in Peace much like a Ravenous Trap. Yes, you know there is a chance that your opponent has it, but you don't know exactly when it is going to come out. Therefore, Dredge players might actually have to change how they play slightly to deal with this threat, as they now can not overextend before it comes into play AND have to hold onto answers for when it does come into play, not just one of the other like Leyline.

That said, it doesn't belong in Bomberman at all, as they need their own graveyard to win most of the time. As a tool is G/W hatebears or Noble Fish, it is 100% a 3 to 4 of in the board, replacing Goyf as Noble stated.

[quicksilvervii]

Love the card, love the art.

Absolutely vintage playable, and I absolutely love that white now has solid answers to dredge.

I'm especially excited to see what this does in legacy in those new UW control decks -
Goyf just got a LOT worse.

[gkraigher]

Great card.  Excited to add this to my Black/White Bears deck. 

[vaughnbros]

I don't think you main deck this but I think this could very well be the best graveyard hate card ever printed leyline that rfgs their graveyard as a CIP.  It does hit your own yard but most decks don't really care that much when their dredge opponent is basically completely destroyed by it.  This another shot to black since now leyline and jailer have been dethroned.

[gkraigher]

Wow, this is indeed pretty amazing. Seems as though UWx Bomberman, Confidant/Snapcaster etc. variants will be even more on the rise now as well as GWx beats.

Everything about this statement is wrong.  It kills bomberman, it kills snapcaster, and it makes goyf bad.  So no, all those decks will take a major hit from this card being accessible in something like a Dark Confidant based White/Black creature deck.  

[gkraigher]

Best dredge hoser ever (casting cost aside)? 

I still like city in a bottle, as it kills the bazaar in play and doesn't allow them to play more bazaars to search for answers.  But, yes, it is very efficient at its job and works against a variety of decks unlike city. 

[Meddling Mike]

Yes, the turn 0 Lelyine is always strong, but outside of that effect, which would W/B/x decks rather have? A 2 mana enchantment or a 4 mana one? Clearly, it would be the two mana one. Furthermore, Dredge decks know that they have to beat a Leyline, because it is there right away. I think of Rest in Peace much like a Ravenous Trap. Yes, you know there is a chance that your opponent has it, but you don't know exactly when it is going to come out. Therefore, Dredge players might actually have to change how they play slightly to deal with this threat, as they now can not overextend before it comes into play AND have to hold onto answers for when it does come into play, not just one of the other like Leyline.

For starters, I'm not even talking about a deck with black in it. If that was the case I think you'd probably want something like Yixlid Jailer over this, it obviously depends on whether the Dredge deck has Darkblast and how they board without necessarily knowing what your Dredge hate is. Even if Leyline is 100% on the pregame effect plan in terms of getting this thing on the battlefield I think it's still a contender over playing this card. The situation you're talking about involves not having the card in opening hand, but drawing it early enough that it still matters but before the game is over. If you're on the play or you have a Wasteland/Strip Mine/Dryad Militant handy this card might be better. If you're on the draw there's a reasonable chance this is getting Cabal Therpied out of your hand before you see turn 2 if I get two Bazaar activations and a draw step in. Beyond that, I also may have put a bunch of zombie tokens on the field or won the game by now. Getting rid of my bazaar after one activation should buy you the time you need to stick this thing and have it be effective as well as more draw steps where drawing a Leyline of the Void would be bad. Beyond all this there's the tiny detail that this is costing you your two drop, which decks that would want this card seem to have a good supply of. Against Dredge most hate cards are just a tactic to buy time until they answer it or rebuild their graveyard. Being able to make your two drop creature could speed up your clock and shorten the window they have to rebuild or find an answer. Even with all these things considered, RIP could be better than Leyline. I certainly haven't tested this card that got spoiled 6 hours ago that goes into a deck that I don't play, but I think just from a theory standpoint it's debatable and if it is better than what's already available it's not a substantial upgrade.

[StanleyAugust]

Wow, this is indeed pretty amazing. Seems as though UWx Bomberman, Confidant/Snapcaster etc. variants will be even more on the rise now as well as GWx beats.

Everything about this statement is wrong.  It kills bomberman, it kills snapcaster, and it makes goyf bad.  So no, all those decks will take a major hit from this card being accessible in something like a Dark Confidant based White/Black creature deck.  

Did you read my last post?

I already stated that I misread the card. Of course it's bad for Bomberman and Snapcaster etc.

But it will be the nuts for GWx beats, running 'Goyf or not.

[KrauserKrauser]

So if this became popular it would be fun to start with a land heavy dredge build and then transform into Dark Times + Helm of Possession.  It's like they are doing it to themselves!

[nedleeds]

There are still only so many slots for non-man hate cards in a W/x/x beats deck. Too many hate cards that aren't threats water the deck down. Multiples of this and Stony Silence also aren't particularly useful (especially game one, when targeted removal is sparse).

Assuming you need at least a core of 20-24 creatures leaves you having to probably choose between this and Stony Silence game one, also the bigger threat to the man based beats decks is Oath anyway ... a strategy better attacked with Cage.

[gkraigher]

There are still only so many slots for non-man hate cards in a W/x/x beats deck. Too many hate cards that aren't threats water the deck down. Multiples of this and Stony Silence also aren't particularly useful (especially game one, when targeted removal is sparse).

Assuming you need at least a core of 20-24 creatures leaves you having to probably choose between this and Stony Silence game one, also the bigger threat to the man based beats decks is Oath anyway ... a strategy better attacked with Cage.

Don't forget about serenity.

I would assume a White based creature deck has a favorable matchup to dredge game 1 anyway due to the fact that it can block and remove the birdges from below in the yard.  Am I wrong about this? 

[mikekilljoy]

There are still only so many slots for non-man hate cards in a W/x/x beats deck. Too many hate cards that aren't threats water the deck down. Multiples of this and Stony Silence also aren't particularly useful (especially game one, when targeted removal is sparse).

Assuming you need at least a core of 20-24 creatures leaves you having to probably choose between this and Stony Silence game one, also the bigger threat to the man based beats decks is Oath anyway ... a strategy better attacked with Cage.

Don't forget about serenity.

I would assume a White based creature deck has a favorable matchup to dredge game 1 anyway due to the fact that it can block and remove the birdges from below in the yard.  Am I wrong about this? 

Slightly. The key is getting bridges out of the yard before needing to block.

[KrauserKrauser]

If you main deck Dryad Miltant and sideboard in this, things get alot harder for Dredge players.

Taking out the spells as they hit the yard is bad enough, this just adds insult to injury.  Team it up with Cage and you can easily overwhelm Dredge with hate, especially since you would be attacking it in three avenues.

It appears that Wizards has had enough of the idea of the graveyard being relevant and is attacking it aggresively.  That will work for a time and Dredge may suffer for it, but any complacency will be punished severely.  I would be loath to go under 8 hate effects even with the uptick in the power of the hate.

I'm waiting to see their answer to 1st turn Lodestone golem into more spheres as I find that just as annoying and uninteractive as a typical Dredge opener.

[Guli]

There are still only so many slots for non-man hate cards in a W/x/x beats deck. Too many hate cards that aren't threats water the deck down. Multiples of this and Stony Silence also aren't particularly useful (especially game one, when targeted removal is sparse).

Assuming you need at least a core of 20-24 creatures leaves you having to probably choose between this and Stony Silence game one, also the bigger threat to the man based beats decks is Oath anyway ... a strategy better attacked with Cage.

Don't forget about serenity.

I would assume a White based creature deck has a favorable matchup to dredge game 1 anyway due to the fact that it can block and remove the birdges from below in the yard.  Am I wrong about this? 

That depends, if the creature deck has wastelands, a thalia to stop craziness and exile the bridges then sure. Problem is dredge is faster and can get things going pretty fast. I run surgical extraction to nail the bridges and then take the fight on a more "fair" level. But I also have things that remove their stuff and block their stuff to minimize the damage. If you are not prepared and are relying on sheer blockers and you can't nail all 4 bridges, you are completely wrong. They will just eventually find another Bridges and build up again while you just sit and watch.

Rest in Peace is in my eyes a potential main deck card and for sure a sideboard card. There are some important requirements a beat down needs these days.

- I believe every beat down should run Dark Confidant. Splashing black is not that big of an issue. This is the minimum of draw engines you should have.
- A way to compensate for the loss of Force of Will. You either do this by running full mox or Spirit guides. Another option is Aether Vial. In any case, you need to be prepared and you should have tested the chosen plan.
- Some board control and/or removal. This is related to answering Tinker>BSC, Wurmcoil, Triskelon... I personally use Stun Sniper in the Cavern of souls human build And Stony Silence for nasty things like Metalworker, Forgemaster and Triskelon.
- You need graveyard hate. I use Surgical Extraction for this. I know it is a 1 shot, but it is free and that is important versus Shop decks.

There are probably more stuff that I can llist here. But the point is that you can configure your deck in the way you feel best but you need to cover these basics. I agree completely that static defences can be played but as a beat down you need to absolutely minimize them. Stony is a sitting target, Cage is a sitting target. Creatures are also targets but they are also win conditions hence more dynamic.

With this arument, I feel like this card should replace Stony Silence or Cage and not supplement it. This means that, with the absence of for example Stony, you should configure your creature base to compensate for that. Your best shot is Phyrexian Revoker in this case. Or if you want you can play Stony and some RiP's and be ready for Oath and Tinker etc with your bears. (pridemage, relics, karakas, tappers, ...)

What I will do is probably skip both Stony and Cage because the latest version, when RtR started getting spoiled, I recognized that one of my biggest issues was graveyard hate. I tried Leylines, my own Crucibles to neutralize opponents crucible, Relic of Progenitus. And now Surgical. All these cards worked and got the job done. I didn't run Stony or Cage, and I never needed them because my creatures for filled those needs. I can see RiP being great as a 3 off in that version shutting off graveyards (which is not used by beats normally) and making your beat strategy and mana denial more powerful.

[gkraigher]

- I believe every beat down should run Dark Confidant. Splashing black is not that big of an issue. This is the minimum of draw engines you should have.

I firmly believe what Brian Demars wrote in his summation of Vintage Worlds.  You must play 4 Dark Confidants, 4 Mishra's Workshops, or 4 Bazaar of Baghdad or you are not playing a tier 1 deck.  

Aren't the tapper guys just as good as that stun sniper, only more cost efficient.  I understand they don't take out dark confidants, but that extra mana, and the fact that it is red, doesn't that make him worse than gideon's lawkeeper and/or goldmeadow harrier.  


An interesting debate for putting this card main deck is that it does do something against oath decks as well.  Its by no means great against oath, but it does do stuff.  That being the case, the only decks this doesn't hurt are MUD and this Black/white Bears deck that will surface after RtR.

[Pokey]

Pretty sure this card is not bad in bomberman.  While it may be a "nonbo" with Salvagers, less than 30% of my game wins actually involve using the graveyard.  Look for several of this card in my list once this set becomes legal.