[Free Article] SMIP Podcast # 18 Return to Ravnica Part II and Burning Wish”

[quicksilvervii]

I've seen decks use lavamancer that run Goyf as well.  Nice thing is, you can select which card you exile, and it only costs 1 to do so.

Good card is good, and you obviously don't have to feed your entire yard to make it effective.

[LSD25]

what works in modern or legacy may not work in vintage.  there were a one/few in the modern pro tourny that decided to just stick with the blood braid, bob and goyf and not go with the shaman... for whatever reason.  ooze is played with goyf, but it offsets by buffing itself.  lavamancer doesnt name specific card types, so there is some wiggle room there.

it seems to me that the utility and versatility of shaman has to be weighed against the lines of play either cut off, or sacrafices made by its inclusion and interaction with goyf.  it could theoretically go into a more turbo/control deck, but i think it is perfect for a beats gameplan, but as i said, those game plans often involve goyf.  maybe a BUG-still build.

[Troy_Costisick]

The Modern Pro Tour finalist use Deathrite Shaman in a deck with Goyfs.  FYI

He's going to be good in Legacy and Modern.  I dunno about Vintage.  He'd have to offer more than Noble Hierarch.  Does he?

[Smmenen]

The Modern Pro Tour finalist use Deathrite Shaman in a deck with Goyfs.  FYI

He's going to be good in Legacy and Modern.  I dunno about Vintage.  He'd have to offer more than Noble Hierarch.  Does he?

*Ahem*

0:52:35: Deathrite Shaman

[MaximumCDawg]

The Modern Pro Tour finalist use Deathrite Shaman in a deck with Goyfs.  FYI

He's going to be good in Legacy and Modern.  I dunno about Vintage.  He'd have to offer more than Noble Hierarch.  Does he?

Yep.  Like I said a few posts ago, you only have four real viable creature accelerators in the format: Spirit Guides, Heirarch, and now Shaman.  Compare Heirarch to Shaman:

1) Heirarch : Hits on turn 1, but it sick; Adds U/W/G to your pool; adds +1/+1 in combat each turn immediately; can tap for mana and add damage same turn.
2) Shaman: Hits on turn 1, but is sick; Adds any color to your pool; hits opponent for 2 each turn when not sick; cannot add mana and damage opp same turn; vulnerable to graveyard hate.

Depending on the colors of your deck, they both add the same mana to your pool.  Shaman, however, hits harder when he's helping with the aggro game, but has to make a choice about whether he's aggroing or ramping.  I come down on the side of saying anything Heirarch can do, Shaman does better, with the sole exception of pumping Cold-Eyed Selike.  Once my newborn lets me make decks and play again, I am planning to remove Heirarch from all decks I had her in that do not play Selkie.

[xouman]

Yep.  Like I said a few posts ago, you only have four real viable creature accelerators in the format: Spirit Guides, Heirarch, and now Shaman.  Compare Heirarch to Shaman:

1) Heirarch : Hits on turn 1, but it sick; Adds U/W/G to your pool; adds +1/+1 in combat each turn immediately; can tap for mana and add damage same turn.
2) Shaman: Hits on turn 1, but is sick; Adds any color to your pool, hosing somebody's grave; hits opponent for 2 each turn when not sick, hosing somebody's grave; cannot add mana and damage opp same turn; vulnerable to graveyard hate.

Imho attacking opponent's grave (or own against tarmos) is quite relevant. in fact it was the first utility that came to us at the beginning...

[MaximumCDawg]

Ok, ok.  Put your money where your mouth is:  how many Deathrite Shaman to expect will appear in Vintage Top 8s by the time of the next set's pre-release?   You have our predictions.   Now put your money on the line.

I never did do the research necessary to make a firm prediction, but as of today, Morphline.de only shows two decks using Deathrite Shaman in top 8s in Vintage, with six total copies appearing.  I absolutely would have guessed more appearances, so you can consider me wrong so far.  Also, the decks using Deathrite are not the hatebear type decks i expected, but more like BUG control decks of all things.  Weird.

[Troy_Costisick]

shaman decreases goyf size, so i would think people would use this against goyf.  most of the decks i think shaman could have a home in play goyf... so its hard to imagine morte than a few good pilots trying this for shits n giggles making top 8 with this as a 3/4 of.

i think the elemental might start taking delver spots in decks for a while.  not viable for storm tricks.

Decks in Modern and in Legacy play Deathrite Shaman right next to Tarmogoyf.  In Vintage where the artifact count is much higher, Shaman might not work as well.  But since it can remove junk out of an opponent's GY, there should be plenty of targets.  Besides, I'd be happy to sacrifice one point of damage to deny my opponent the ability to re-cast his Ancestral or Mysticial Tutor.