TheManaDrain.com
September 18, 2020, 09:19:22 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Workshops and Null Rod  (Read 7098 times)
hitman
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 507

1000% SRSLY


View Profile Email
« on: February 01, 2013, 02:41:36 am »

I do a lot of testing against Workshop decks and I've found the most reliable way for me to keep in the game is to play as many Moxes as I can.  That said, is Null Rod worth a spot in a Workshop deck's 75?  I know it's miserable against everything but blue decks but based on recent results, blue decks are back on the rise and maybe Shops need something to level out the field again.

I was looking at Terra Nova recently and really appreciated the idea of 8 manlands with a deck full of lock pieces.  I remember testing against decks with artifacts that cost more than 5 and there being problems semi-regularly casting those spells.  Is a deck with 4 Lodestone, 8 manlands, 8 Spheres, 4 Chalice, 4 Null Rod and 4 Tangle Wire a thing?  For reference, this is Terra Nova:

4 Dismember
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Sculpting Steel
1 Trinisphere
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra’s Factory
4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland

SB:

3 Tormod’s Crypt
4 Grafdigger’s Cage
3 Null Rod
2 Ghost Quarter
3 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

In my mind, the four slots to go are the two Sculpting Steels, a Dismember and the Trinisphere.

I think a Dismember would have to go because you would only have Ancient Tomb, the 8 manlands and Tolarian Academy to play it with.  With so few ways to play the card if you weren't able to tap Moxes for mana and the cost to your life total, it seems too hard to play a full playset.

The other three slots are the two Sculpting Steels and the Trinisphere.  They're similar in function to Null Rod except when Sculpting Steel copies Lodestone Golem, they constrict a player's ability to use their mana.  I use to disagree with people that said claimed Trinisphere wasn't very good in Shops but lately I've really been noting that it does very little outside the first turn.  The problem is the effect isn't cumulative with Spheres so it's not very hard to play around Trinisphere with a couple Moxes in play.  Null Rod is more complimentary to Spheres than Trinisphere and neither are good in the mirror so it's a wash.

Sculpting Steels seem to usually copy Spheres because all you have to do with this deck (I'm simplifying) is cast a million Spheres and attack with manlands.  I think Null Rod may be better at constricting mana in combination with the other lock pieces.  You do lose some versatility against non-blue decks but not a great deal. 

Is playing Null Rod something a Workshop deck wants to be doing right now?
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 02:45:28 am by hitman » Logged
JACO
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1215


Don't be a meatball.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2013, 04:01:47 am »

I play 4 Null Rods in my main Workshop prison deck (no I will not be posting it for reference). Null Rod is absolutely devastating when the blue player struggles to pay the tax to just cast their artifact acceleration, only to have a single card come in and negate all relative advances they have made in the first 4-5 turns. Null Rod also has the benefit of being useful against other Workshop variants, shutting off Metalworker, Karn, and Kuldotha Forgemaster, rendering them all just regular dudes.

Null Rod also shuts down Engineered Explosives from decks like Landstill and Bomberman, which is relevant because both of those decks are relatively good against most Workshop decks.
Logged

Want to write about Vintage, Legacy, Modern, Type 4, or Commander/EDH? Eternal Central is looking for writers! Contact me. Follow me on Twitter @JMJACO. Follow Eternal Central on Twitter @EternalCentral.
Twaun007
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 1527


For eight hundred years have I trained Jedi.

Twaun007
View Profile
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2013, 09:17:10 am »

I use to disagree with people that said claimed Trinisphere wasn't very good in Shops but lately I've really been noting that it does very little outside the first turn.  The problem is the effect isn't cumulative with Spheres so it's not very hard to play around Trinisphere with a couple Moxes in play.  Null Rod is more complimentary to Spheres than Trinisphere and neither are good in the mirror so it's a wash.
 
Welcome aboard, Hitman.  It's about time you came around.

If you want to include Null Rod in a Terra Nova shell I wouldn't cut Dismember for it. Dismember is your only answer to any resolved thereat(Trygon, Karn, Forgemaster, Metal Worker, Bobby Digital, etc...) an opponent might squeak through you Spheres and Thorns. Another question is whether Null Rod is worth running since the printing of Phyrexian Revoker? Both have their pro's and con's.    

Is playing Null Rod something a Workshop deck wants to be doing right now?

Hitman, I have a list brewed up with Null Rod, but like JACO, I'm not ready to reveal until I play it at the next tourney.


  

Logged

This... Right here... Is my new Lambo...

Carpe Librum

You can't ask a bird not to fly!
You can't ask a fish not to swim!
You can't ask a Chinese guy not to turn back into a tiger at midnight!
It's who I am.

Cleveland
Bibendum
Basic User
**
Posts: 351


Majority rule, don't work in mental institutions


View Profile Email
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2013, 01:14:37 pm »

I dont think 4 of is something you ever want in null rod. 3 in the main is fine, 4 of gives you a good chance of opening double rod and unlike other cards in shop decks is useless in multiples. It is an awful draw late game if one is in play and its not something you generally want to lead blind with in your opener. I think one of the main issues with it though is if you run revoker and chalice half the time your null rod is a dead card completely. The one thing that can hurt shops once you get into a long grindy game is the lack of topdeck manipulation and to hit null rods after one comes down is just devastating.
Logged

The Going Get Tough, The Tough Get Debt
Don't Pay Attention, Pay The Rent
Next Of Kins Pay For Your Sins
A Little Faith Should Keep Us Safe
Twaun007
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 1527


For eight hundred years have I trained Jedi.

Twaun007
View Profile
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2013, 02:14:40 pm »

Null Rods a tricky beast. It's effect on the board doesn't stack nor does it affect planeswalkers, but it can be absolutely devastating when resolved at the right time. Plus, you can put Blue Mages into awkward positions by forcing them to play Moxen via Sphere's and slow roll the Null Rod for maximum effect. In a long grindy games a top decked Null Rod can equalize mana. It's sort of like ripping a late game Gorilla Shaman in the old 5 color Stax days days.  


The reason why Workshop decks are forced to run quad lazer of one artifact is due to shops being unable to draw, filter, or manipulate their library. Your opening seven is pretty much all you're getting for the rest of the game so you need to see your artifacts as soon as possible in order for your deck to curve out and running tutors goes against the prison strategy. I also think Null Rod shouldn't be omitted from the Workshop design card pool because of Chalice and Phyrexian Revoker. All three cards do vastly different things and designing a Workshop deck in any given meta may require a combination of said cards.



  
Logged

This... Right here... Is my new Lambo...

Carpe Librum

You can't ask a bird not to fly!
You can't ask a fish not to swim!
You can't ask a Chinese guy not to turn back into a tiger at midnight!
It's who I am.

Cleveland
Bibendum
Basic User
**
Posts: 351


Majority rule, don't work in mental institutions


View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2013, 02:59:56 pm »

I understand, I feel running a 3 of gives you a high % chance of seeing a particular card that you want without having to worry about multiples, of course you want to maximize your chance to open Rod if it's the key card you are looking for but in some matches it can be an auto mull to six if you open two. I love the card and have been running 2-3 in my shop board for the past few event's when on MUD. While it does not effect you the same way it effects others, upping your land count is needed with rod, this might be one of the reasons that the Tera-Nova shell is a great one to use rod in as it packs an already upped land count.
Logged

The Going Get Tough, The Tough Get Debt
Don't Pay Attention, Pay The Rent
Next Of Kins Pay For Your Sins
A Little Faith Should Keep Us Safe
Shax
Basic User
**
Posts: 247


0TonyMontana0 =twittername add me!

Braveheart+Shax
View Profile Email
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2013, 08:56:38 pm »

Ask yourself this. If you want to play Vroman's Uba Stax list (basically only with like 2-4 cards modded in it for now) then sleeve it up and go to town. It contains a better strategy for abusing Null Rod than any of the other Shop decks because it has Bazaar and Welders.
You might be able to come up with a Aggro Shop list that uses Null Rod and win (I've seen it done, and been witness to the tournament reports where it does infact win or top 8), that being said I don't think it matches the overall structure of Uba Stax. Uba Mask hoses Gush, and Burning Wish better than Sphere's on top of Spheres. (Because when they draw and can't play, its just gone for good most of the time) Uba Mask also hits Aggro decks harder when they do happen to start whiffing their draws. This deck also contains all the Power 9 needed for it's style and only needs x3 Null Rod.
Logged

Jesus Christ the King of Kings!

Vintage Changes: Unrestricted Ponder

Straight OG Ballin' shuffle em up tool cause you lookin' like mashed potatoes from my Tatergoyf. Hater whats a smurf? You lucksack? I OG. You make plays? I own deez. You win Tourneys? I buy locks. You double down? I triple up. Trojan Man? Latex. ClubGangster? I own it.Sexy mop? Wii U. Shax 4 President?
-Hypnotoa
TheBrassMan
Administrator
Basic User
*****
Posts: 692


AndyProbasco
View Profile
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2013, 10:24:31 pm »

I've been a fan of Null Rod in workshops for years, and I run it on the rare occasion that I sleeve up shops. It's basically always been good, and you don't need to run anything awkward like additional aggro cards to support it. Frankly I'm delighted that the card hasn't caught on - it's not something I relish playing against.
Logged

Team GGs:  "Be careful what you flash barato, sooner or later we'll bannano"
"Demonic Tutor: it takes you to the Strip Mine Cow."
hitman
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 507

1000% SRSLY


View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2013, 09:58:03 pm »

Maybe Null Rod doesn't fit in this deck.  In 5 games today, the four cards I thought could be cut were critical and Null Rod would have been strictly worse.  Revoker does a good enough job of cleaning up Mox mana and Spheres do a pretty good of burying you if you only have one Mox.  Dismember is very good in Terra Nova and cutting yourself off Mox mana could either cause you to take too much life loss from Dismember, Ancient Tomb and Phrexian Metamorph or just not have enough mana to cast Dismember through Spheres.  Fewer people are also running Vault-Key right now. 
Logged
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.045 seconds with 20 queries.