I need some help - Workshop related

[RisingWater]

So I've been a casual vintage player since about 98'.

Just recently we started having tournaments down here in Louisiana. It's making me realize I'm not as good as I thought I was lol.

I'd like a seasoned shops player, prison variant,  to be able to talk strategy with.

Discussing my list, unfavorable matchups, sideboard and how to side for certain matches.

If anyone's interested, we can post here for the greater good, or take it to emails.

So here it goes:

I'll start off with my list and how it got to where it is now.

I started off playing 5c shops years ago. Around the time Vroman was running Uba Stax I think, I switched to mono red. I stayed with mono red for quite a long time. I updated it when new printings came out like Cotv, lodestone, revoker, and metamorph.

I was really enamored with the welder/crucible/bazaar shenanigans. I took me a really long time to get away from it. Recently though, I've realized the consistency issues with the red mana base. I finally took the plunge and switched over to mono brown. I've noticed an immediate improvement in two areas.

1) The consistency of only having one color mana, and the speed from having room for more ancient tombs.

2) Removing the bazaars, welders, red mana lands and b-rings has given me more room for threats like thorn, karn, factories, and some more revokers/metamorphs.

So here's the list I'm on now...

2x Karn, Silver Golem
3x Phyrexian Revoker
3x Phyrexian Metamorph
4x Lodestone Golem
4x Smokestack
4x Tangle Wire
3x Crucible of Worlds
4x Sphere of Resistance
2x Thorn of Amethyst
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Trinisphere
1x Black Lotus
5x Moxen
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt

4x Ancient Tomb
4x Mishra's Workshop
4x Mishra's Factory
1x Tolarian Academy
4x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine

Sideboard:

1x Crucible of Worlds
3x Null Rod
4x Ratchet Bomb
4x Tormod's Crypt
3x Grafdigger's Cage



Over the course of the last few tournaments, this is the list I've come too.

The Karns are the most recent changes. I had found that I had the lock aspect down, but I was taking too long to finish. Giving my opponents too much time to find answers. I feel like he will fill that role well, but have not had a chance to test it yet.

I think the biggest questions I have are tips on certain matchups, and sideboarding.

Meta Game is some blue/black control, uwg fish, shops, dredge, Dragon combo, and bomberman.

My worst matchups are:

Fish - I can't seem to get past all the artifact hate and counters maindeck. Things like aura of silence, Ancient grudge, energy flux, nature's claims, stony silence, and serenity. I really have no idea what to do in those situations.

Time vault - Unless I get a revoker in time, Theres not much I can do about this aside from null rods from the sb, or just locking them out from casting it.

Landstill - don't even know where to start with this one. They run crucibles so my Stax don't do much, and pack tons of counter magic.


These are the matchups I think I need the most help on for sideboarding, or even just strategy tips in general.

If this needs to be moved to the workshops section, my apologies. I just figured it was more of general discussion since it's not really anything new relating to shops. Just me playing better.

[msg67183]

I played a list in December I called "Ghosttown Shops".
It was a prison deck that was leaned towards mana denial.
I ended up in the finals only losing to Keeper in both the Swiss and Finals.
Here is the list I played:

4 Shop
4 Tomb
4 Waste
4 Factory
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Tolarian
1 Strip
5 Moxen
1 Lotus
1 Sol
1 Crypt
4 Lodestone
4 Metamorph
4 Revoker
4 Sphere
4 Thorn
4 Wire
4 CotV
3 Crucible
1 Trini

Sideboard:

4 Tormod's
3 Cage
3 Dismember
3 Ratchet Bomb
1 Tabernacle
1 Ghost Quarter

The deck was very consistent and very strong at keeping the opponent at bay. Give it a try!

[RisingWater]

I don't think ghost quarter would work very well. In my meta, they use a ton of basics already.

I've noticed that I'm so used to not wanting to chalice @ 1 because of the welders. Now that I don't have welders anymore, the only thing it shuts of for me is sol ring.

I need to start chalice-ing for 1 more often.

Maybe find a way to fit steel hellkites back in.


My original question too though,
When sideboarding what do I take out in certain matches. It all seems good, so I have trouble picking what to take out for sb cards.

[Will]

I don't think ghost quarter would work very well. In my meta, they use a ton of basics already.

I've noticed that I'm so used to not wanting to chalice @ 1 because of the welders. Now that I don't have welders anymore, the only thing it shuts of for me is sol ring.

I need to start chalice-ing for 1 more often.

Maybe find a way to fit steel hellkites back in.


My original question too though,
When sideboarding what do I take out in certain matches. It all seems good, so I have trouble picking what to take out for sb cards.

Chalice of the Void doesn't really interfere with Goblin Welder if you are running Cavern of Souls in your deck, which in my opinion is a necessity in a Welder deck in this day and age. 

Here's a quick sideboard run through as to what you should cut:

Dredge: Smokestacks, Tangle Wires, Revokers, Dismembers, Chalice of the Void, Mana Crypt
Oath: Revokers, Dismembers, Some number of Lodestones, Some number of Moxen
Fish: Thorn of Amethyst, Mana Crypt, Sculpting Steel
Workshops: Trinisphere, Thorn of Amethyst, Mana Crypt

Send me a PM if you want more matchup and list specific SB help. 

[msg67183]

You can also read my post about Espresso in "My take on Espresso."
I give my Espresso list and Sideboarding plan, hopefully that helps.