Doomsday (the Ritual approach)

[Soly]

Tendrils is actually not difficult to pull off in Doomsday.  A lot of times, when I am using Lab Man, if I had to I could quickly come up with a Tendrils kill that wins on the spot too.

[AmbivalentDuck]

In a way, it shows how strong the deck is that you can waste a slot on "style points" and still perform at a medium-large event. That said, lots of dated tech. Pretty sure a Toxic Deluge should be main.

[KIP_NZ]

Tendrils is actually not difficult to pull off in Doomsday.  A lot of times, when I am using Lab Man, if I had to I could quickly come up with a Tendrils kill that wins on the spot too.

Yes I agree, I actually killed several times with tendrils doomsday piles in this event. I think the final result of games won was 4 Beacon, 2 Tendrils and 5 gush storms (no doomsday cast) in a 5 round + Quarters / Semis.

[AmbivalentDuck]

The last list posted in this thread was more style than substance, but it performed well. That makes me think it's time to tune a Doomsday list and take it to a cardboard event. It's not clear to me what the best list is because we've yet to see a list with Toxic Deluge main, a change that seems both appropriate and overdue.

Other questions present themselves, too. How many copies of Deathrite Shaman belong in the sideboard? Or should that be Oath of Druids? Just stick with the traditional Ingot Chewer plan?

Here's where I'm starting:
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Dark Ritual
1 Fastbond

1 Island
1 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
2 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
4 Gush
1 Ponder
4 Preordain
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Imperial Seal
1 Sensei's Divining Top

2 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
1 Toxic Deluge
3 Flusterstorm
2 Mental Misstep
1 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will
1 Hurkyl's Recall

4 Doomsday
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Laboratory Maniac

The maindeck...we're mostly debating which countermagic is most appropriate for the meta. Steve might debate Dark Rit vs more countermagic. And the manabase depends on a lot on the sideboard, so let's quietly set that aside.

We have options when it comes to the sideboard.

Going conservative:
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
4 Ingot Chewer
3 Nature's Claim
1 Volcanic Island
4 Leyline of the Void/Extirpate/Surgical Extraction/Yixlid Jailer. Mixing it up seems best.
1 Slot of critter/Oath hate. Probably Abrupt Decay since it's such a swiss army knife

Going flashy:
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mana Crypt
4 Oath of Druids
2 Griselbrand
4 Nature's Claim
2 Extirpate
1 Show and Tell

Going aggro:
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Lightning Bolt

[John Cox]

The idea with oath is to oath into laboratory maniac and bypass cage/metamorph/flusterstorm (2 turn clock). I don't know how necessary Griselbrand is. You can also still win with doomsday if you wiff on oath.

[Soly]

I think the transformational Sideboard for decks like Doomsday are way too 'cute' and really open yourself up to gaps you really shouldn't.

[Tammit67]

I really dislike Tansformative Sideboards too. You basically say "Well, my maindeck has such a bad common matchup that I'd rather be a worse version of Deck B in the matchup than execute my main plan"

I would love to squeeze more tops into your list, Mr AmbivalentDuck. This list is what I ran earlier this year

13 LANDS
4 Underground Sea
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
1 Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island

1 CREATURES
1 Laboratory Maniac

36 INSTANTS and SORCERIES
4 Gush
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Doomsday
4 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
3 Force of Will
3 Preordain
1 Imperial Seal
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Mystical Tutor

10 OTHER SPELLS
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Emerald
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
1 Fastbond

SIDEBOARD
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Lightning Bolt
3 Ingot Chewer
2 Xantid Swarm
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Thoughtseize
1 Mountain
1 Pyroclasm
3 Tormod's Crypt

If you want cuts for countermagic, everyone is going to advocate for probes and rituals on the chopping block. I loved top every time I drew it, and multiples weren't unwelcome (I play a lot of Legacy, you can always find uses)

[dangerlinto]

I really dislike Tansformative Sideboards too. You basically say "Well, my maindeck has such a bad common matchup that I'd rather be a worse version of Deck B in the matchup than execute my main plan"

The reason I never like them is because I've yet to see a deck with a transformative sideboard that had a plan A that was not a bastardized version of a better Plan A.  Game 1 matters.   Maybe that's saying the same thing.

[AmbivalentDuck]

I've settled on something very close to Soly's maindeck from World's:
Dark Ritual -> Imperial Seal
--Suggested tweak supported by much discussion here.
Mox Emerald -> Mox Ruby
--Red is just way more important in the Shops matchup, particularly because of the strain it puts on the mana base.

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mana Crypt
1 Dark Ritual
1 Fastbond

2 Island
1 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
4 Gush
1 Ponder
4 Preordain
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Imperial Seal
1 Sensei's Divining Top

2 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
2 Flusterstorm
2 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
1 Hurkyl's Recall

4 Doomsday
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Laboratory Maniac

I agree with everything that was said on transformative sideboards. I'm thinking neoclassical:
4 Ingot Chewer
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Mountain

2 Abrupt Decay
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Toxic Deluge

1 Extirpate
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Grafdigger's Cage

1 Xantid Swarm

Against Dredge:
-1 Duress
-2 Thoughtseize
+1 Extirpate
+1 Grafdigger's Cage
+1 Yixlid Jailer

Against Oath:
-1 Mana Crypt
-1 Mox Ruby
-1 Island
+2 Abrupt Decay
+1 Grafdigger's Cage

Against "blue control:"
-1 Mana Crypt
-1 Mox Ruby
-1 Island
+2 Abrupt Decay (killing Bob seems very strong)
+1 Xantid Swarm

Against other Gush decks:
-1 Island
-1 Mox Ruby
+1 Extirpate
+1 Xantid Swarm

Against critters:
-1 Hurkyl's Recall
-1 Mana Crypt
-1 Divining Top
-1 Gitaxian Probe
+2 Abrupt Decay
+1 Lightning Bolt
+1 Toxic Deluge

Against Shops:
-2 Misstep
-2 Fluster
-1 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Ponder
-1 Imperial Seal
-2 Thoughtseize
-1 Duress
+4 Ingot Chewer
+2 Hurkyl's Recall
+1 Mountain
+1 Lightning Bolt
+2 Abrupt Decay

So, the sideboard seems pretty good in this configuration. I'm inexperienced sideboarding against Shops with so few Dark Rituals. Any advice is appreciated. I'm also not sure if Xantid Swarm merits inclusion over a Thoughtseize or Notion Thief.

[Soly]

I'd rather have an extirpate over the xantid swarm for it's multi-use approach.   Most decks that you want it against run mistep + either bolt or Abrupt Decay.   And Extirpate has proven multiple times to be the best thing against the Snapcaster Mage crutch decks like BUG fish.

[John Cox]

I would cut a land and play a maindeck toxic deluge also.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Xantid was testing very very poorly. It got turned into a Flusterstorm, but I could easily be convinced that it should be Extirpate #2. The only card I really fear in the control mirror is Flusterstorm and I miss running 4 of them.

As to land -> Toxic Deluge, right now I'm beating shops pretty consistently and I'm afraid to create a bad matchup to buoy a decent matchup.

[John Cox]

Fair enough.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Went 3-0 in rounds (against burning wish storm, UR landstill, and UR delver) winning 2-0 each time, drew into top 4 (but went 2-0 against BUG after the ID matchslip was signed). Got beaten 2-0 by RUG delver in the top 4.

Toxic Deluge didn't earn its slot. Abrupt Decay and Extirpate were superstars all day. In particular, Extirpate on FoW is easy to "read" (just wait for your opponent to tap down during their own turn) and very effective.

With 3x Decay in the sb, I'd switch back from Mox Ruby to Mox Emerald. It barely matters, though, as you board the off-color Mox out in most matchups.

What I'd bring to a tourney tournament:
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana Crypt
1 Dark Ritual
1 Fastbond

2 Island
1 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
4 Gush
1 Ponder
4 Preordain
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Imperial Seal
1 Sensei's Divining Top

2 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
2 Flusterstorm
2 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
1 Hurkyl's Recall

4 Doomsday
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Laboratory Maniac

Sideboard:
1 Mountain
1 Flusterstorm
1 Gradigger's Cage
2 Extirpate
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Hurkyl's Recal
4 Ingot Chewer

Two of those slots are flexible. Flusterstorm VS Thoughtseize and Hurkyl's #3 vs Ancient Grudge.

I never wanted Bolt over Decay. It was always important that the Delver/Goyf/Clique die without me having to fight a counter war to make it so. I might also eventually go up to 3 Extirpate over the Grafdigger's Cage. It's hard to describe just how important it was to be able to crack Standstills with impunity knowing that my opponent was unlikely to be able to interact.

It's plausible that a singleton Defense Grid, Empty the Warrens, Tombstalker, or Talrand should be put in the sideboard to open up an angle of attack that doesn't choke on UR and URg Delver's counter density.

Some of the more ridiculous (but plausible) choices for a one-of sideboard slot:
Gwendlyn Di Corci, Seredib Efreet, Phyrexian Crusader, Phyrexian Vatmother, Phyrexian Obliterator, Tarmogoyf

[AmbivalentDuck]

Testing since the tourney, the maindeck stands but I'd consider Divining Top -> Abrupt Decay. Dredge is the only matchup where Decay doesn't come in, so it's hard to justify not running one main as a tutorable answer to almost every permanent we care about.

The sideboard as stands right now:
1 Mountain
1 Flusterstorm
2 Extirpate
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Ingot Chewer

If Divining Top gets cuts for Decay, what would you do with the sideboard slot?

[AmbivalentDuck]

Seems like Dack Fayden might be worth a sideboard slot against decks that either can't attack him or only attack with artifacts. Thoughts?

EDIT: Wow is this thread dead. Anyways, updating with a current, over-tested list.

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana Crypt
1 Dark Ritual
1 Fastbond

2 Island
1 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
4 Gush
1 Ponder
4 Preordain
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Imperial Seal

2 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
2 Flusterstorm
2 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
1 Hurkyl's Recall

4 Doomsday
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Abrupt Decay

Sideboard:
1 Mountain
1 Flusterstorm
2 Extirpate
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Hurkyl's Recal
4 Ingot Chewer
1 Talrand, Sky Summoner

Talrand adds another legitimate route to victory that interacts favorably with the Gush engine while dodging a lot of the hate that can be aimed at combo kills. His slot is in flux (Yixlid Jailer, Darkblast, Dread of Night, Dack Fayden, Jace TMS), but I've yet to regret moving an Abrupt Decay main over Divining Top.

[NiRVeS]

My list, which carried me to an 11th place finish at BoM9 (losing the win & in on stream).

Dooooooomsday, by team MCG
(aka Wizard Stompy)

1 Duress
3 Thoughtseize
2 Flusterstorm
3 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
1 Hurkyl's Recall

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
3 Preordain
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Gush
1 Fastbond
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
4 Doomsday
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Yawgmoth's Will

1 Laboratory Maniac

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
2 Dark Ritual

2 Island
2 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta (which should have just been a split of blue fetchlands I guess - never came up, ever.)

SB
3 Trygon Predator
1 Mox Emerald
1 Forest
2 Steel Sabotage
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Dismember
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Flusterstom
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Jixlid Jailer
1 Surgical Extraction

I used to play 4 Leyline of the Void and switched to the more diverse dredge-hate prior to BoM9.
I haven't encountered Dredge since I play this deck (2 BoM trials + main event), so I have no clue which is better.
The SDT was a last minute switch (used to be Misdirection or MBT). It was good for me during the tournament, but it's just a flex slot, and I can get how it feels clunky sometimes. It also slighty increases the effectiveness of Null Rod (little more than a mild nuissance in general) against us. I'll probably keep it in for the near future, but I'm still evaluating its performance.

[Soly]

Just because I am a wanker, I am super disapointed with the lack in Ingot Chewer.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Why 2x Steel Sabotage over 1x Sabotage + 1x Nature's Claim?

[NiRVeS]

It's pretty close indeed. But Steel Sabotage answers Chalice of the Void (@1) on the stack and can be cast off a basic Island, which is still the land you rather fetch for in the early turns. I wouldn't fault anyone for splitting it 1-1.

As far as Ingot Chewer goes: I like the card, but not enough to include a fourth color in the deck. Even now the Tropicals and Forest (post board) are annoying sometimes.

For reference: the matchups I faced:

R1-2: BYE
R3: UW BladeStill, W 2-1
R4: MUD, L 0-2 (he nutdraws me g1 otp and manages to answer my t2 Predator with FoW backup off a mull to 5 g2)
R5: MUD, W 2-0 (opponent mulligans into oblivion in one of the games)
R6: BUG Fish, W 2-0
R7: Merfolks, W 2-0
R8: Pack Rat Control, W 2-0
R9: BUG Fish, L 0-2 (see stream & comments in the coverage thread)

The games without comments next to them all boil down to "I strip their hand of relevant interaction, and safely kill them with Doomsday/Yawg.Will in the mid/lategame". I don't think I ever made a pass-the-turn-pile throughout rounds 3-8, and only had to expose myself to an unknown card without having counterbackup myself once.

[dark ritual]

NiRVeS List is close to mine.
I won the last two (small) tournaments with this list.

1 Laboratory Maniac
4 Doomsday
4 Dark Ritual
4 Force of Will
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Yawgmoth's Will
4 Gush
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Brainstorm
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Underground Sea
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
2 Flusterstorm
1 Time Walk
1 Fastbond
1 Necropotence
3 Mental Misstep
1 Night's Whisper
4 Preordain
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Duress


//Sideboard
SB: 1 Swamp
SB: 4 Snuff Out
SB: 3 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 2 Trygon Predator
SB: 1 Mox Emerald
SB: 2 Steel Sabotage

I think cutting the 2 rituals and the necro for thoughtsize is not worth it.
Top is nice but in my opinion night´s whisper is stronger.

[NiRVeS]

Yeah, I had a short discussion with your brother about that after our match.
I suspect your approach with the deck is a bit more aggressive than ours. We like to play between 13 and 16 disruption spells in order to play like a combo-control deck.

I will give the Night's Whipser a shot in the SDT-spot. As I mentioned, the Top was something I tried at at BoM and I still need some more game time with it in order to see if it's good enough.
The LoA also looks interesting, so I might give that one a try too.

But 4 Rituals seems really excessive to us (we consider even the 2nd one to be a flex slot and tend to board it out against other blue decks), which pretty much excludes Necropotence from the equation too, at least for our approach.

[dark ritual]

against blue decks, the best way to win is find a spot (often turn two when he is playing a confi) when he is tapped out . Here dark ritual is very good.
Or win via cardadventige.
loa is a powerhouse against blue.
I had top in the deck for several month. Night´s Whisper is also good because you don´t have to return two land in your dd pile via gush. It gives you much more variations in your piles.
could you please subscribe your boarding plans.
i am very interested how you board.

[Soly]

I'm not an advocate of playing Ingot Chewer *and* the Green Cards, I'm an advocate of playing Ingot Chewer instead of them.

[NiRVeS]

I'm not an advocate of playing Ingot Chewer *and* the Green Cards, I'm an advocate of playing Ingot Chewer instead of them.

Yeah, I get the argument for playing red MUD-hate over Predators. But what about the maindeck Fastbond?

Immanuel:

Against traditional Mana Drain decks (Grixis, UBg Jace Vault, Tez, Oath...):
-1 Hurkyl's Recall, +1 Flusterstorm (always)
-1 Dark Ritual, +1 Spellbomb (optional, you keep the dark rit in case they have confidants, for the reasons you've stated)


Against Fish style decks (BUG, Merfolk,...):
-1 Hurkyl's Recall, +1 Abrupt Decay

You can't cut dark rit here, since they can attack your black mana through wasteland and null rod.
Flusterstorm is an awkward card here. You need some to fight theirs, but you don't want to get stranded with them in hand while they are playing creatures and stripping your hand with discard (since the card is way stronger offensively than it is on D). So I don't bring in the 3rd one. This is the main reason why the matchup is pretty close to even (although I still feel Doomsday is slightly favored).

Against Hatebear-style decks and 4C Humans, one of the Flusterstorms comes out as well, to make room for the Dismember.


Against MUD:

-3 Mental Misstep
-2 Flusterstorm
-1 Doomsday
-1 Duress
-1 Thoughtseize
-1 Preordain (otp) / -1 Thoughtseize (otd)

+3 Trygon Predator
+2 Steel Sabotage
+1 Hurkyl's Recall
+1 Dismember
+1 Forest
+1 Mox Emerald


Against Dredge:

-3 Thoughtseize
-1 Duress
-1 Hurkyl's Recall

+4 Hatecards (Spellbomb, Jailer, Surgical, Crypt)
+1 Flusterstorm


All in all, a pretty traditional sideboardplan.

Inspired by Gwen's transformational board in Tez, we might give Oath a try as well. I do think Oathing into Maniac is a pretty strong line against MUD and Dredge, who would have very few ways to intereact with it. Although I suspect that Oathing up a Maniac against BUG Fish, might expose us to Abrupt Decay way more than necessary, so we might need an actual fatty for it to work in those matchup anyways.

As you might see: I'm still experimenting with the deck. BoM was my 3rd tournament with it, and up until now I've just been leaching off my teammates's experience. So feel free to point out any blatant misconceptions I may have about it. I will say that the deck feels really strong and criminally underplayed, and is also an absolute blast to play.

Kind regards,

Tom

[Tobi]

Absolutely agree that this deck is insanely strong and underplayed. Probably because it is really hard to play imo. You need a lot of experience, not only building piles. Getting to the point where you have the DD, drawspell and protection is the toughest thing, and the decision whether you play slowish or aggressive, pile DD with Maniac or Tendrils etc, everything dependant on the board state.

I played Manu's (dark ritual) list in Hanau by the end of last year and finished second with it (put the list on morphling). You may note that we don't have any Dredge SB. I didn't belive it myself, but in fact you don't need any if you play 4 Rituals. Just aggressively go for a early DD, even pass-the-turn, and dredge will very likely not be able to disrupt you. Dredge = Bye.

[Soly]

Yeah, I get the argument for playing red MUD-hate over Predators. But what about the maindeck Fastbond?

I've been very successful with Doomsday, and I always have 1 Tropical Island for the Fastbond.  I just don't see any other green cards being worth it.  However, Red gives you access to 4x Ingot chewers.

Flusterstorm is an awkward card here. You need some to fight theirs, but you don't want to get stranded with them in hand while they are playing creatures and stripping your hand with discard (since the card is way stronger offensively than it is on D). So I don't bring in the 3rd one. This is the main reason why the matchup is pretty close to even (although I still feel Doomsday is slightly favored).

Against an opponent that has a brain, they'll LOVE that you're Flusterstorming their Flusterstorm.  Unless they're completely tapped out, you're usually going to be losing that battle. Flusterstorm is AIDS against opposing Flusterstorms.   

Also, the whole "pretty close to even" against Fish is probably not true.  I believe BUG Fish is a nightmare matchup.  flusterstorms + Discard + Snapcaster Mage means they'll usually be stopping you from comboing late in the game.   It may be slightly favored because of the multiple rituals, but I believe playing anything more than 1 or 2 rituals itself is actually wrong (that's a subject I covered in my Gencon 2013 Followup).

Against Hatebear-style decks and 4C Humans, one of the Flusterstorms comes out as well, to make room for the Dismember.

I'm confused because Toxic Deluge is a card.

Against Dredge

The fact that you have Sideboard against dredge is sad;  just race them.  It's easy when you know you're not going to be facing opposition.

Oath

Trust me, I've tried it, and it's not good.   You're going to weaken your Doomsday Sideboard in order to have a transformation... but you're going to be transforming into the most awkward Oath deck in existance.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Against Hatebear-style decks and 4C Humans, one of the Flusterstorms comes out as well, to make room for the Dismember.

I'm confused because Toxic Deluge is a card.

Not just Deluge, Abrupt Decay just needs to kill Thalia at EOT. Two mana is very reasonable and it has the benefit of being able to kill Chalices/Spheres/Vaults/Delvers/Oaths too. I've gone up to four and never looked back. Amazing card.

[NiRVeS]

As a response to Mr. Soly's statements:

1) I'm not trying to ignore your past results with the deck and I respect your opinion on the red sideboard cards. I was only trying to confirm that you were in fact playing 4 colors (even if it is for just a single Fastbond). My teammates went for Predators as their main plan against MUD and I just followed their reasoning. All I can say is that Predator has been great for us so far. I've seen the strenghts of Ingot Chewer when I was playing Jace Control in the past, so I'm aware of how good it is, but up until know we haven't had any reason to move away from the Predator-plan.

2) I believe I explicitly state that Flusterstorm is not ideal versus BUG Fish, and thus not worth bringing extra's in. I'm well aware how it works against an opposing Flusterstorm + open mana, because I'm not retarded. Thank you for pointing that out.
You have more experience with the deck than me, so if you say BUG Fish is a bad matchup, I guess it must be. As I mentioned, I've only played 3 tournaments with Doomsday so far. In those, I've encountered BUG Fish 5 times (3 times at a trial, 2 times at BoM). Currently, I'm 4-1 in matches and 8-4 in games. So that limited sample size is all I had to draw conclusions from. My general impression is that they have the right tools to defeat us, but that you are often able to clear the way to perform either of your 2 kill-mechanisms (if they have abrupt decay left, go for tendrills/will or just construct a maniac-pile with an additional draw-effect. If they're left with graveyard-hate and/or null rod, go for maniac/gush). I've also been able to capitalize on my opponents tapping low for Confidant or Null Rod, allowing me to force through with a Flusterstorm of my own (which, as you mentioned, doesn't work if they keep more mana available). I will admit that some of my opponents may have played too aggressively due to inexperience playing against DD.
Just to make sure: you're aware that I'm with you on the "no more than 2 Rituals" appoach? 'Cause your post seems to suggest otherwise.

3) We wanted the Dismember-slot to be something we could bring in against workshops as well. I like Toxic Deluge a lot, but I'm less confident in how we're going to cast a 3 mana sorcery against MUD. Kuldotha MUD is the most common version of the deck around here, and we felt Dismember was better at dealing with a turn 1/2 forgemaster. I'm well aware of how much stronger Deluge is against Fish- or hatebear-style decks, but those are way less prevalent and much less problematic matchups than MUD. So that was our reasoning.

4) Dredge: our previous lists played 4 Leyline + 1 Spellbomb. I never played against Dredge with Doomsday, so it seemed reasonable to include 4 hate-slots, as is the case with any other deck I've played in Vintage (and given that I've mainly played Mana Drain decks up to this point, I'm actually used to having 6-7 slots vs Dredge). If it's really unnecessary, that's excellent news since it would allow for more usefull sideboarding.

5) We stuck to a traditional SB for now, and probably will do so in the future. I only mentioned that the thought of an Oath-board peaked my interest, since it actually sidesteps Flusterstorm and seemes easier to pull of against MUD. But lots of stuff peaks my interest, and little of it usualy ends up in a final decklist.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback I guess.

[Soly]

I hope you know I'm not really disputing YOU or your results, I am just putting my thoughts in regards to some thing stated for others.

Often times, I will skim threads for ideas on different directions to take a list.  I'm not trying to argue that 4 or 3 colors is right;  Often time it's just play style.

I can see your argument for Dismember against the Workshop matchup.   

Also, I usually have  one Extirpate, which is a silver-bullet against Dredge if you need to stall them a turn.