Waste Not

[d8dk32]

So the You Make The Card card, complete with mana cost, has been revealed, and it's about as good as we could have hoped for. I don't think Wizards is willing to push it any farther, cmc-wise.



Obviously it has it's limitations, but it also seems pretty reasonably costed. It's great with draw7's. Maybe some new type of deck could be crafted around it? some kind of discard/control/draw7 deck. Probably not, but I'll end up trying it anyway once the card is released (The article said that the set it will be released in has not been announced yet, but it will be in a standard-legal set, not something like commander 2015)

Here is the article, if you're interested.
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/267ymtc

Let's hear your opinions.

[LotusHead]

In a Draw 7 Type deck, this card makes whiffs into actual plays.  Underword Dreams is a thing I have died to against a Draw 7 deck.

Interesting.

[d8dk32]

Underworld Dreams used to see a fair amount of play, way back in the day. I think this is probably better in a draw7 type deck. The main thing I like about it is that it can create permanent sources of 2 damage instead of just causing 2 damage, like Liliana's Caress. And the mana may you get from it can let you chain more spells off it, be it another draw7 or something like Hymn or Thoughtseize. And maybe some extra card draw to boot. I just wish it was coming out sooner, since I really want to play with it, if only for fun.

[Saya]

I found that There isn't a lot of cards which let us DISCARD and draw.For example,Timetwister shuffles our hands into our libraries,which doesn't have the synergy with Waste not.Cards below would be better.

Dragon Mage
Jace's Archivist
Wheel and Deal
Wheel of Fate 　
Wheel of Fortune
Whispering Madness
Windfall

Add:
Shocker
Barbed Shocker

[d8dk32]

Whispering madness could actually be decent. And don't forget about creatures like Shocker and Barbed Shocker. Normal discard spell would work too.

[Phele]

I found that There isn't a lot of cards which let us DISCARD and draw.For example,Timetwister shuffles our hands into our libraries,which doesn't have the synergy with Waste not.Cards below would be better.

Contract from Below
Dragon Mage
Jace's Archivist
Wheel and Deal
Wheel of Fate 　
Wheel of Fortune
Whispering Madness
Windfall

Add:
Shocker
Barbed Shocker

Add:
Refourge the Soul

[Wagner]

So what exactly happens if you have this in play, play Reforge the Soul, and Miracle another Reforge the Soul as your 3rd card you draw?

[vaughnbros]

So what exactly happens if you have this in play, play Reforge the Soul, and Miracle another Reforge the Soul as your 3rd card you draw?

You can only miracle the first card you draw each turn.

[lplaat]

...

Add:
Refourge the Soul
[/quote]

add:
memory jar

cheers,
lplaat

[Wagner]

So what exactly happens if you have this in play, play Reforge the Soul, and Miracle another Reforge the Soul as your 3rd card you draw?

You can only miracle the first card you draw each turn.

Fair enough, so what happens if you somehow skipped your draw step, cast Reforge the Soul, and Miracle another Reforge the Soul as the first card you draw? I'd figure you both draw your 7 cards, then the Second Reforge the Soul goes on the stack and resolves, but what about the Waste Not triggers for the first Reforge?

[DubDub]

So what exactly happens if you have this in play, play Reforge the Soul, and Miracle another Reforge the Soul as your 3rd card you draw?

You can only miracle the first card you draw each turn.

Fair enough, so what happens if you somehow skipped your draw step, cast Reforge the Soul, and Miracle another Reforge the Soul as the first card you draw? I'd figure you both draw your 7 cards, then the Second Reforge the Soul goes on the stack and resolves, but what about the Waste Not triggers for the first Reforge?

They'd go on the stack too....

Not sure I see the confusion here.  Miracle'd cards don't just immediately start resolving, so...

[AmbivalentDuck]

Seems to me that this actually has the most value with Balance in a Burning Wish shell.

[Wagner]

So what exactly happens if you have this in play, play Reforge the Soul, and Miracle another Reforge the Soul as your 3rd card you draw?

You can only miracle the first card you draw each turn.

Fair enough, so what happens if you somehow skipped your draw step, cast Reforge the Soul, and Miracle another Reforge the Soul as the first card you draw? I'd figure you both draw your 7 cards, then the Second Reforge the Soul goes on the stack and resolves, but what about the Waste Not triggers for the first Reforge?

They'd go on the stack too....

Not sure I see the confusion here.  Miracle'd cards don't just immediately start resolving, so...

They don't immediately resolve, but when Miracle will be on the stack, you'll already have a bunch of Waste Not triggers from the first Reforge the Soul.

So this is as I understand it, and correct me if I mess up.

1. Cast Reforge the Soul, you both discard cards
2. A few Waste Not triggers go on the stack depending on what your opponent discarded (you choose the order for the triggers)
3. You draw your first card, which is Reforge the Soul, and pay the miracle cost, it goes on the stack on top of the Waste Not triggers.
4. Your opponent draws 7 cards and you draw your remaining 6.
5. The second Reforge the Soul resolves, you each discard your hand, 7 more Waste Not triggers go on the stack (unless opponent plays instants)
6. You each draw 7.
7. The second batch of Waste Not resolve in the order you choose.
8. The first batch of Waste Not resolves in the order you chose at step 2.

Did I get that right?

[DubDub]

@Wagner
Yep.

[psly4mne]

They don't immediately resolve, but when Miracle will be on the stack, you'll already have a bunch of Waste Not triggers from the first Reforge the Soul.

So this is as I understand it, and correct me if I mess up.

1. Cast Reforge the Soul, you both discard cards
2. A few Waste Not triggers go on the stack depending on what your opponent discarded (you choose the order for the triggers)
3. You draw your first card, which is Reforge the Soul, and pay the miracle cost, it goes on the stack on top of the Waste Not triggers.
4. Your opponent draws 7 cards and you draw your remaining 6.
5. The second Reforge the Soul resolves, you each discard your hand, 7 more Waste Not triggers go on the stack (unless opponent plays instants)
6. You each draw 7.
7. The second batch of Waste Not resolve in the order you choose.
8. The first batch of Waste Not resolves in the order you chose at step 2.

Did I get that right?

Actually, no. Miracle is a triggered ability that allows you to cast the spell for its miracle cost. And triggers don't go on the stack until after a spell finishes resolving. So it looks more like:

1. Cast Reforge the Soul, you both discard cards
2. A few Waste Not triggers trigger depending on what your opponent discarded
3. You draw your first card, which is Reforge the Soul. The Miracle ability triggers
4. Your opponent draws 7 cards and you draw your remaining 6. Reforge leaves the stack.
5. You put the Miracle ability and a bunch of Waste Not triggers on the stack in whatever order you like. You choose to put the Miracle ability on top of the stack.
6. The Miracle ability resolves. Assuming the second Reforge is still in your hand, you pay the Miracle cost, and the second Reforge is put on the stack.
7. The second Reforge the Soul resolves, you each discard your hand, 7 more Waste Not triggers trigger (unless opponent plays instants)
8. You each draw 7 and the second Reforge leaves the stack
9. You stack the second batch of Waste Not triggers in any order you like, on top of the first batch.
10. The second batch of Waste Not resolve in the order you chose.
11. The first batch of Waste Not resolves in the order you chose at step 2.

[MaximumCDawg]

I'm missing something here.  Reforge the Soul is a Sorcery, meaning you presumably already drew your first card for the turn before casting it.  The first card you draw off Reforge cannot trigger Miracle.

EDIT: Oh, I read above -- we're in magical christmas (Necropotence has resolved) land.  Nevermind.

[Random Noob]

Ill-Gotten Gains anyone?

[d8dk32]

Ill-Gotten Gains anyone?

Excellent idea, sir. I swear to god, I'm making this a deck. I don't care if it's not tier 1. It looks like a fun and potentially powerful card to play around with, and there is a lot of potentially good stuff to work with it.

[gkraigher]

ill-gotten gains in legacy with dark rituals, tendrils, lion's eyes, duress, thoughtseize....

[MaximumCDawg]

I feel like this card is going to lead to fun stories where everything worked out well, but at the end of the day it's not consistent enough or cheap enough to make a big splash. 

As for using Draw7s, these seem to suffer from the same problem that discard spells do when you pair them with Waste Not.  They have maximum value on the first turn, before you play Waste Not.  If you wait a turn to Thoughtseize, you're going to miss the mana acell or broken first turn plays.  Similarly, using a Draw7 on turn one (particularly Windfall and Whispering Madness) it forces your opponent to auto-mulligan and draws you tons of gas after you dumped your hand.  On later turns, it's less good.

At 1B, you're not casting Waste Not on turn 1 and then following up with discard or Draw7 very often.

[gkraigher]

anyone know when this card gets released?

[MaximumCDawg]

anyone know when this card gets released?

What? No.  Wizards does the Make-A-Card thing and then pops it into some future set.  There's no way of knowing when it will see print.

[d8dk32]

anyone know when this card gets released?

What? No.  Wizards does the Make-A-Card thing and then pops it into some future set.  There's no way of knowing when it will see print.

The article linked to in the OP says it will be released in a set not yet announced. So unfortunately it will probably be a while.

[vaughnbros]

anyone know when this card gets released?

What? No.  Wizards does the Make-A-Card thing and then pops it into some future set.  There's no way of knowing when it will see print.

The article linked to in the OP says it will be released in a set not yet announced. So unfortunately it will probably be a while.

Yeh if you look at some of the previous ones it usually tells you they are going to release it in the spring expansion, aka the 3rd set of a block.  If they aren't announcing when its going to be released it may be a while. 

[MaximumCDawg]

Maybe it will be in "From the Vault: Casual"

[coldcrow]

For what it is worth: this empowers funeral/piracy charm or (worse) those discard spellbombs to lock out their draw step and randomly gain value.

[Protoaddict]

If i were to play this card, I would think maybe draw 7s maybe not the best way to go. Maybe something like pox, which is not a thing that exists right now but all the same?


4 Leyline of the Void
4 Waste Not
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
4 Sign in blood
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to tourach
4 The Rack
4 Unmask
1 Yawgmoths Will
1 Vampirc Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Necropotence

1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus petal
17 Swamp

I mean just thinking out loud here but in this format you can EASILY chain discard spells and just keep replenishing your hand as the majority of cards in the format are non creature - Non land. Bascially afte turn one if your opponent still has a hand that should be shocking, and then add to that some maindeck grave hate which will mush dredges face and the deck actually has a shot at winning.

MAYBE this is more for legacy than not but I would think if this card were to see play this may be a better way.

[Lurker101]

Shallow Grave/Corpse Dance + Magus of the Jar? Probably too much of a glass cannon but it'd be fun.

[MaximumCDawg]

Why bother?  Just use Jace's Archivest if you're going that route. 

[Lurker101]

I forgot about Jace's Archivist. With Magus you're guaranteed 7 cards and you can chain Shallow Grave/Corpse Dances in order to go through multiple activations each turn. Either way I doubt the deck would be able to contend. It would probably be better just to Shallow Grave Griselbrand anyway. I just wanted to put it out there. I've messed around with using Magus and Shallow Grave in the past and it's a lot of fun.