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Author Topic: Shop Depths  (Read 11363 times)
gkraigher
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« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2015, 12:17:06 am »

You have to pay for nether void mana with colorless mana that has no restrictions.  So mishra's workshop cannot be used to cast a mox through nether void. 

Nether void is a triggered ability, unlike Thalia, thorn, and sphere.
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Khahan
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« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2015, 11:15:36 am »

So just out of curiosity, is Nether Void that bad of a card in this deck?  It doesn't affect your combo and you can pay for your artifacts with Mishra's Workshop.  I could see at least one in the sideboard being a card that ends games.

Can you? It looks like the oracle text says counter it unless they pay 3, which to me sounds different than "add 3 mana to the CMC of the card when casting it". So for example, you'd be paying 2 colorless for Phyrexian Revoker and 3 for Nether Void, rather than 5 mana for the Revoker. It looks more similar to the wording on Spell Pierce than a sphere effect

For the record, here's the oracle text for nether void:

Card Text:


Whenever a player casts a spell, counter it unless that player pays 3.

So its a triggered ability that triggers when you cast a spell. You must pay 3 to satisfy the triggered ability of nether void so Mishra's workshop mana cannot be used for this.
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portland
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« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2015, 03:24:02 pm »

Nope, certainly can't use workshop mana to pay for 'void.

Still remember the brief but amusing period when ritual wasn't countered by void as it was a mana source.
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« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2015, 04:20:22 pm »

Void can't be cast with shop or paid for with shop, but I suppose it is a consideration.  Your spells are still cheap to find the combo and the combo isn't "cast", so this deck can play around it easier than most. I'd think it to be an expensive, but more crippling sphere effect. Could buy you a few turns to win, and if they cast anything on their turn, they'll be tapped out to clear the way for a safe EoT Marit.

Another card I considered tinkering with is hymn to tourach. For 2 mana, that card is a wrecking ball. But it is best cast early, which requires Urborg, and most likely would necessitate replacing the sphere slots with them since they don't play nice together...and the spheres are just better most of the time. Hymn works great in my BGW and BW depths decks, but not so much here.

Any other thoughts?  Anyone tested this deck out besides Thiim?
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Smmenen
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« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2015, 06:47:03 pm »

Thiim and others play this archetype on MTGO.  It's appeared in a number of results in the last month or so. 
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« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2015, 07:37:56 pm »

I'd love to hear from others who have piloted it, whether to success or not.  Not so interested in decks that ran a shops list with a dark depths and a stage stuck in there :p.  I'm interested to see how THIS list (OP) has been doing.
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tribet
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« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2015, 08:05:06 pm »

The list in the OP is your list. Why do you need to ask others how it is performing is beyond me?!
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« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2015, 09:14:37 pm »

Because I design vintage decks and tool around with them on Cockatrice and with friends, but there are no Vintage tourneys here and i don't use MTGO - so I can't really test it in a tourney environment.  It seems Thiim has been killing it on MTGO with the list, but I was wondering if anyone else has tried it and, if so, what were the results.  In casual testing, I do very well with it.  On MTGO Thiim does very well with it.  But outside of that, I have no data.
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« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2015, 05:49:59 am »

I am two Urborg down from that online list. I am a Lands player in Legacy and that list looks appalling. I will post how it goes in my local games.
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TheWhiteDragon
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« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2015, 05:06:31 pm »

I am two Urborg down from that online list. I am a Lands player in Legacy and that list looks appalling. I will post how it goes in my local games.

Not sure what you mean.  You are 2 urborgs down from the list in the OP?  From Thiims list online?  Either way, I found 4 to be best.  You often want urborg and it's a lotus petal at worst.  You want to increase your odds of drawing it as opposed to mapping for it because A) you want to spend maps on the combo lands, not Urborg, and B) you want to up your odds of turn 1 urborg -> needle (on wasteland), turn 2 depths/hexmage, for a turn 3 win, and C) you are more likely to hit plays like Workshop, map, sphere, turn 2 urborg to crack map for whichever combo land is not in hand.

Not sure how legacy lands.dec compares to shop depths.  I can only assume you run the depths combo and fewer urborgs in that.  If so, keep in mind you are likely running loam and therefore are A) multicolor, B) not running shop disruption/aggro as plan B/complementary role, and C) essentially drawing 3 cards a turn through loam dredge after turn 2, so more likely to mill urborgs with fewer in the deck.

THIS version of shop depths (from OP) really operates optimally with 4x urborg/shops/depths/stages. 

Maybe I'm just not understanding your reply.  If you can, please clarify.

**note, since the restriction of chalice, a few updates are needed.**

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« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2015, 05:33:46 pm »

Since chalice got bitchsmacked by DCI, I am posting some suggested edits to those slots:

// Lands (25 lands + may be too much)
    4  Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1  Ancient Tomb
    4  Wasteland
    4  Thespian's Stage
    4  Dark Depths
    4  Mishra's Workshop
    1  Tolarian Academy
    1  Strip Mine
    2  Mishra's Factory (1)

// Creatures (could add some more worthwhile aggro in the right meta - maybe 2x wurmcoil/karn+hellkite - cutting 2 other slots)
    4  Vampire Hexmage
    4  Lodestone Golem

// Spells (I'd like to find 1 slot to add trinisphere - storm is big now)
    2  Crucible of Worlds
    1  Mana Vault
    1 [JGC] Mana Crypt
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    2  Thorn of Amethyst (this could be bumped to 4 to replace 1 tangle and needle)
    1  Pithing Needle (not so much needed main if you add 1 crucible - and recurring waste/strip might be better in THIS deck)
    4  Tangle Wire (I'd recommend cutting 1-2 tangle - they are still decent, but not nearly as shut-down without 4x chalice - blocking moxen and thus mana AND tappable permanents for your opponent WHILE providing you a free permanent to tap yourself)
    3  Grafdigger's Cage (could swap one in SB with a needle, wurmcoil, add a crucible or other depending on meta)
    4  Expedition Map
    1  Chalice of the Void (+3 slots; I'd probably add 1 demonic consultation and 2 mental missteps...maybe spellskite)
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Black Lotus

// Sideboard (I like the fetchable lands, but bog is a 1-shot and seems slow.  With 5 waste/strip, cage, nihil, and needle, i don't fear dredge much anyway. Things like possessed portal or my old "The Man Show" tech, Chains of Meph, would be good.  I see Thiim already tried chains.  In a gush/blue meta, it seems good. Tabernacle seems good vs pyro/mentor decks, so I could see 1 as a fetchable answer - especially since urborg makes it add mana.)
SB: 2  Pithing Needle
SB: 1  Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 3  Phyrexian Metamorph (could cut 1 or 2 and add another threat like wurmcoil perhaps for some matchups)
SB: 2  Smokestack
SB: 2  Sphere of Resistance
SB: 4  Null Rod
SB: 1  Nihil Spellbomb


So my revised list would most likely look like:

// Lands
    4  Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4  Wasteland
    4  Thespian's Stage
    4  Dark Depths
    4  Mishra's Workshop
    1  Tolarian Academy
    1  Strip Mine
    2  Mishra's Factory

// Creatures
    1  Steel Hellkite
    1  Karn, Silver Golem
    4  Vampire Hexmage
    4  Lodestone Golem
    1  Spellskite

// Spells
    3  Crucible of Worlds
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Mana Vault
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    4  Thorn of Amethyst
    1  Trinisphere
    3  Tangle Wire
    2  Grafdigger's Cage
    4  Expedition Map
    1  Chalice of the Void  
  
// Sideboard
SB: 3  Pithing Needle
SB: 2  Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2  Smokestack
SB: 1  Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 3  Null Rod
SB: 3  Chains of Mephistopheles
SB: 1  Tabernacle of Pendrel Vale
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 12:44:13 am by TheWhiteDragon » Logged

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Thiim
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« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2015, 03:12:00 pm »

I just returned from italy, where I played my list at Nebraskas War, to a 19'th place out of 78 players in total. Change one loss with a win, would have meant top 8 with Shops Depths.

out of 7 rounds, this is how it went:

R1: 0-2 loss against BUG splashing white for mentor and stp. My opponent, had some really strong opening hands, and i played to my outs, but wasn't enough.

R2: 2-0 win over Vault-key deck.

R3: 2-0 win GW hatebears.

R4: 1-1 draw vs. BUG. if we had not gone into time, i think i would have won the third match.

R5: 1-2 loss vs. Golden Gun Oath. I win game 1. game 2, i get 2 Witchbane Orb out, destroy some lands, dont draw much, have karakas too, and he wins with tinker.. Game 3, i have cage and waste some lands, he plays lotus, channel, emrakul. Not much to say about this Smile

R6: 2-0 win vs. MUD forgemaster.

R7: 2-0 win vs. Griselbrand Oath.

Sorry for the lack of details, but didn't write any notes, so this is from memory.

I'm very happy that my list, could do so well in a real life competitive vintage tournament and not only online. Marit Lage did what it do best, and if some things had went a little different, i'm sure, that i could have finished higher. I'm definitely playing this deck in the future, since i like where it's at currently and how it fits into the meta.

I could see cutting 1 tangle wire, to make room for another card. I really missed Dismember maindeck.

I like the idea of having trinisphere and chalice to board in vs. TPS, but i'm satisfied with the 2 Witchbane Orb. although i didn't get to play against it there.
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« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2015, 04:14:05 pm »

A discussion with Thiim and I that I think the forum might benefit from (hearing our thoughts). Thiim, I hope you don't mind I shared. I think the community can weigh in/learn from the discussion.
-----


Hey Thiim,

I see you've been killing it with Shops Depths.  Nice results!  It's interesting to see your evolution.  Originally, you were hesitant and went with a shops-heavy approach.  You splashed the combo as an afterthought and advised against adding heavy black.  You said you didn't do so well at BoM.  Now your list (posted on many places online) looks almost identical to my original except you've abandoned the single chalice and even the thorns for...wait for it...MORE black spells :p.  

Consultation seems like a good add, though I have found no need for it with DT, Vamp, 4 map, and running 4x hexmage, stage, and depths already.  Spellskite is a great card - i always ran it in my non-shop list, and I found it ports well into this list.  Turn 1 play with shop, and protects against dack stealing your golem or bolts or plows hitting golem (or plow hitting Marit). Is as good as anything vs artifact kill.  

Missteps are good too, but they are a bit too random for my tastes.  I tried them and I dislike them.  They are nice turn 1 vs ancestral and they can hit a nature's claim or bolt...but often they are shut off by my own chalice@1, costly from my own thorns, or dead when the opponent casts things like E-truth/disenchant. I can see it better than skite vs repeal though.

Tabernacle is a good card with the mentor-heavy meta.  I added one to my SB.  I see you added it main, whereas I run factories for extra beats and infinite blockers with crucible.  They often stop opposing golems and bears whereas tabernacle won't. Sometimes they deal the extra damage in a plan B mode to seal the deal.  They are also a house vs planeswalkers since they animate only on my turn.  I guess main tabernacle vs main factory is a matter of taste...no best choice there, i guess.

Cavern is an interesting choice.  I guess it pushes hexmage/golem through FoW.  I'd probably add it just as a 1-of instead of 4 though (you have 7 land tutors!).  If you NEED it, you can fetch it (like with a depths in play and a hex in hand), but if you don't (i.e. not playing against blue), it is a useless 1 mana land.

I really like using Chains of Meph in the SB.  Back in 2002 I used it in The Man Show (a 5-color juggernaugts, Su-Chis, Goblin Welder, Trinisphere, toolbox type workshop deck) It ruined all the grow-a-tog decks that were big back then.  It is a house.  Glad to see it is coming back (awesome in a gush/storm meta).

Please post in the thread again.  I'd like to see this deck become a real player.

------

Hey man,

Thank you for your compliments! I've been meaning to write in the thread for a while, but i wanted to collect as much data as possible. I just got back from Italy late last night, which is why i first reply to your message now.

Sunday, there was a vintage trial for the main event on monday. I played Ravager MUD in the trial with 37 players and top 8'ed, because i wanted to save this juicy deck for the main event! I think i caught a lot of people off guard, which was also the effect i was looking for, unfortunately i was one win away from top 8 again, with 4 wins, 2 losses and 1 draw. But as a sidenote, all my wins, where 2-0. also want to point out, that i faced 4 wasteland decks, which is a tought nut to crack.

As far as the list goes, and the history, i've realised that this deck is very powerfull, when the combo is first priority. I don't deny, that i was sceptical about the deck, when i first laid my eyes on it, but in my defense, i was very focused on making a successful MUD deck, and to pilot it to some good results, this made me not see this raw potential that this deck possess. I'm glad that you posted this thread, and insisted on the way it should be played. It's good that, when we get older and with experience, can reflect and see things in a new way.

The thing that made me pick this deck up again, was the restriction of chalice of the void. I didn't find them fitting very well with all the one drops in the deck. I actually had 1 in the main, and 2 Hellkite in the first version i ran in the mtgo daily and went 3-1 with that list, but not all are put up on mtggoldfish.

I experimented a lot with the deck as you can see, i agree that the caverns are situational, and not my first choice either, because vs. certain archetypes, it's just a colorless land.

I dropped the chains again, after LSV forced me to draw 2 cards, and discard 2, while he had deck fayden in play, that was it for me, concerning that card.

One thing, that i'm sure of, is that mental misstep is great in this deck, it can counter very important spells, and even more essential, it protects our combo against swords to plowshares, which is heavily played online atleast, and to some extend repeal. and protect our cages, needles, tutors and maps against opposing missteps.

I really like spellskite vs, StP as well and dack fayden, when Golem in play. i like to attack with it, when cast golem, to prevent opponent, from blocking with it, when attacking dack fayden next turn. and very good vs removal as ingot chewer, bolt, grudge, spree etc.

I also recently added 1 Not of this World, as misstep number 5 in the SB, vs. Swords.

Consultation is really great, it have helped in a lot of games.

I just traded 1 of my tabernacle's away, for a timetwister that i needed, so i guess that i only play one now hehe, and that will be in the sb i think.

About Thorn of Amethyst. the online meta, seems really creature heavy atm, thought with the exception of TPS growing a bit, it can be good in certain matchups i agree, so is a difficult choice, it also hurt our hand, if we dont have a workshop in it, and is dead vs MUD as well.

I also tried phyrexian revoker, which seemed okay in that daily i used them, but that was in the misstep slots, and i rather protect the combo, since that is first win condition.

Almost forgot, Karakas is really great as a one of in the main, it won me a game in italy against oath.

I like discussing the different parameters with you, it helps me think more thorough about the deck and card choices. Atm this deck is my favorite, because it haves so many possibilities, and its really resiliant against a lot of decks and is difficult to board against.

---------

Awesome, man!  Glad you are doing well, and this deck is becoming a favorite.  i admit, it is probably my favorite for Vintage too, atm.  I also run a BGw oath list I enjoy.  I HATE blue, lol.  

I can see the missteps being useful.  I like the spellskites too, probably more so than misstep for protection.  I also prefer chalice @1 even as a 1-of.  Chalice is just THAT good.  I played a chalice@0, golem vs storm the other day and he just scooped.  Chalice can end a game on its own.

In my list, I added trinisphere.  It's great in a storm/mentor meta. No deck can abuse it more than shops.  I also upped to 3 crucible.  I think one reason I don't play misstep is because with three crucible, I don't care if they cast plow.  Great, they just gave me +20 life...now I replay stage/depths from the grave and make another Marit. Having 5 strip/waste with 3 crucible is also awesome.  Another reason i don't like misstep is the friction with plan B.  I cast thorns/trini...I eot make a Marit (tapping stage + depths + 2 mana)...opponent casts plow.  Will I have enough non-shop mana to pay for misstep through my own spheres now?  Probably not.  With spellskite, you set it and forget it. Blue will also always out-counter our counters.  We may misstep their misstep, but if they want to resolve their misstep, they'll FoW. And often when you need misstep, it's not in hand.  Misstep CAN hit ancestral and some nice things, but getting into a counter war with blue is never good. I find it better to add redundancy (crucibles/aggro/spheres) so that they have to fight on more fronts than they can handle.  Sure, misstep my map...but can you counter EVERYTHING I throw at you AND answer my counterproof land combo?  Probably not.

I cut 1 tangle (it's still good) because not being able to stop moxen hurts its value.  To that effect, I added Karn and Hellkite.  Both blow up moxen to help tangle and mana denial. Both add to a quick plan B clock.  Hellkite can also blow up needles on stage/hexmage. Karn also makes the additional tangles/crucibles a clock.

The one spellskite helps vs artifact removal as much as Marit removal, as you said.  I find Dack to be no big deal though, because we have a non-artifact win-con and 4x hexmage to trade 1-1.

Let's take this convo to the main thread.  I think others might have input.  This deck IS a beast, no doubt.

Congrats again on the results!
« Last Edit: December 10, 2015, 04:19:57 pm by TheWhiteDragon » Logged

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« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2015, 09:42:00 am »

Not sure what you mean.  You are 2 urborgs down from the list in the OP?  From Thiims list online?  Either way, I found 4 to be best.  You often want urborg and it's a lotus petal at worst.  You want to increase your odds of drawing it as opposed to mapping for it because A) you want to spend maps on the combo lands, not Urborg, and B) you want to up your odds of turn 1 urborg -> needle (on wasteland), turn 2 depths/hexmage, for a turn 3 win, and C) you are more likely to hit plays like Workshop, map, sphere, turn 2 urborg to crack map for whichever combo land is not in hand.

Not sure how legacy lands.dec compares to shop depths.  I can only assume you run the depths combo and fewer urborgs in that.  If so, keep in mind you are likely running loam and therefore are A) multicolor, B) not running shop disruption/aggro as plan B/complementary role, and C) essentially drawing 3 cards a turn through loam dredge after turn 2, so more likely to mill urborgs with fewer in the deck.

THIS version of shop depths (from OP) really operates optimally with 4x urborg/shops/depths/stages.  

Maybe I'm just not understanding your reply.  If you can, please clarify.

**note, since the restriction of chalice, a few updates are needed.**
I mean I am two cards off having the list. I have ordered them (Wanted the old ones) and will play this out. I like Thiims list and that's the one I will start with. Likely messing around with the intention of adding in the single Not if this world... Wow. Love that idea.  

Also, cutting the Cage to the side and moving Chains into the main. Local meta. It makes me want to add a swamp over one of the Spells in the main. Also, thinking of adding a Toxic Deluge or two to the side.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 09:54:12 am by Dice_Box » Logged
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« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2015, 09:53:11 am »

I've been running a list similar to what's been posted. So far I've mostly been testing in the TP room. My list includes Demonic Consultation (it's an absolute beast in a deck with multiple 4-of,) and I also use Yawgmoth's Will.

Two notable matches (match-ups which I've historically had difficulty when piloting other decks)

2-1 vs. Dredge
Lost game 1 pretty quickly, couldn't assemble anything. Games 2 and 3 were much easier. Leyline of the Void from the board slows them down tremendously. I've noticed that the dredge meta (at least online) has morphed to include the depths/stage/hexmage combo from a transformation board. Shops-depths is more redundant and more resilient, and we're faster at assembling depths compared to dredge doing it from the board.

2-0 vs. Storm
A combination of lodestone and thorn in both games locked the board enough for me to assemble the combo. Again, Leyline from the board is a powerhouse card. It completely nullifies the utility of dark petition. Both games played out in a similar fashion. Thorn/golem slowed him down. He cast some number of cantrips and durdled a bit with a top. I dropped Revoker naming Lotus (hadn't seen it yet, anticipated it would arrive.) Next turn I assembled the combo and passed. He attempted to ancestral, I had misstep. He misstepped in response. At EOT I got Marit Lage, he attempted to Chain of Vapor. I used Demonic Consultation to find another misstep. Won next turn.

The deck is a blast to play. Very dynamic, despite it's linear appearance.
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« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2015, 10:23:35 am »

I mean I am two cards off having the list. I have ordered them (Wanted the old ones) and will play this out. I like Thiims list and that's the one I will start with. Likely messing around with the intention of adding in the single Not if this world... Wow. Love that idea.  

Also, cutting the Cage to the side and moving Chains into the main. Local meta. It makes me want to add a swamp over one of the Spells in the main. Also, thinking of adding a Toxic Deluge or two to the side.
[/quote]

It was actually a dredge player, that gave me that idea about; Not of this World (DOOMfinite)

Yes, please add Toxic deluge to the sb, i've been playing it for the last week or so, and i think it's an awesome card against aggro.
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« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2015, 01:57:26 pm »

Not sure what you mean.  You are 2 urborgs down from the list in the OP?  From Thiims list online?  Either way, I found 4 to be best.  You often want urborg and it's a lotus petal at worst.  You want to increase your odds of drawing it as opposed to mapping for it because A) you want to spend maps on the combo lands, not Urborg, and B) you want to up your odds of turn 1 urborg -> needle (on wasteland), turn 2 depths/hexmage, for a turn 3 win, and C) you are more likely to hit plays like Workshop, map, sphere, turn 2 urborg to crack map for whichever combo land is not in hand.

Not sure how legacy lands.dec compares to shop depths.  I can only assume you run the depths combo and fewer urborgs in that.  If so, keep in mind you are likely running loam and therefore are A) multicolor, B) not running shop disruption/aggro as plan B/complementary role, and C) essentially drawing 3 cards a turn through loam dredge after turn 2, so more likely to mill urborgs with fewer in the deck.

THIS version of shop depths (from OP) really operates optimally with 4x urborg/shops/depths/stages.  

Maybe I'm just not understanding your reply.  If you can, please clarify.

**note, since the restriction of chalice, a few updates are needed.**
I mean I am two cards off having the list. I have ordered them (Wanted the old ones) and will play this out. I like Thiims list and that's the one I will start with. Likely messing around with the intention of adding in the single Not if this world... Wow. Love that idea.  

Also, cutting the Cage to the side and moving Chains into the main. Local meta. It makes me want to add a swamp over one of the Spells in the main. Also, thinking of adding a Toxic Deluge or two to the side.

Okay...you threw me when you said the list looks "appalling".  That means it looks terrible, so i thought you were saying it is bad, not something you wanted to try Smile

Thiims tweaks are cool.  I do like the chains.  Completely forgot about that card even though I used it back in the early 2000s in a similar gush meta (growatog days). Dismember is okay, but I haven't needed it. Snuff out is an option too (urborg makes everything a swamp Wink ).  I prefer Skite to misstep because it protects every card in the deck, not just Marit.  Same thinking goes for Not From This World.  It's a good card and Depths decks have used it before, but I worry about running cards that ONLY good for protecting Marit.  Slots are precious.  I ended up moving my needle to the SB.  I haven't faced many Dacks and hexmage is an answer.  Wastes handle dredge. I kept the cages main because Oath is a big player at the moment.  Meta dependent, as you said.  

I'm pumped this deck is putting up such good results.  I do agree it is resilient and complex despite the linear appearance on paper.  I think that were i to cut the thorns, misstep would be good...and if I ran misstep, consultation would be great (instant counterspell fetch). I opted for my disruption to be more shops-based (thorn/chalice/trinisphere) because I am hesitant in our ability to out-counter a blue deck running just 4 counters. Storm is also on the rise and more of a threat than plow/repeal.  Crucibles help remake Marits too, so if they get killed, they're coming back the next turn or two...repeatedly. I know we are down to 1 chalice, but in the scenarios above with missteps, plow, repeal, ancestral....chalice @1 stops all that.  Now, travel back in time a month and imagine what my original list did with FOUR chalices, and you can see why I was so excited about the deck.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 03:40:01 pm by TheWhiteDragon » Logged

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Dice_Box
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« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2015, 02:05:14 pm »

Meant to say "Appealing" but it apears my phone had other ideas.
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« Reply #48 on: December 31, 2015, 08:11:42 pm »

Are there any updated lists/results for the Shops/Depths archetype? Most recent I can find from mtgo is a 3-1 result by Thiim from November. I have most of the cards for Shops, and a couple friends want me to "broaden my horizons" so to say (they just want me to play something other than Dredge haha), and this deck looks pretty neat! tia
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« Reply #49 on: January 01, 2016, 11:58:01 am »

I haven't seen any more results, but i don't know if it's been played recently.  The deck is definitely sweet and wins. Thiim has kicked butt with it a few times.  I guess the only updates are deck changes.

Here's the latest pile I've been playing. I found the old school "stax" route is surprisingly good. The only card that's given me trouble is hangarback walker since the can sack it to stax and get a ton of tokens, which happen to fly and chump Marit. I ended up cutting missteps and spellskite altogether. It means they can handle Marit (unless I sphere them out or have chalice @1), but with 3x crucible and 1 more in the board, i just make another in a turn or 2...it's better synergy with 5 strip/waste/smokestack anyway, so it's less of a "dead" card than skite or even missteps. Gives me extra slots to max on stax too, so it tends to be more threats than any opponent can answer (except for that damn hangarback :p)

4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Dark Depths
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Trinisphere
3 Tangle Wire
4 Expedition Map
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Steel Hellkite
4 Smokestack
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 4 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Phyrexian Metamorph
SB: 3 Null Rod
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Crucible of Worlds
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« Reply #50 on: January 04, 2016, 06:00:31 am »

If your having issues with Thopter tokens and your thinking Stax, try Ratchet Bomb. You can blow Moxen to Kingdom come too for that moment when you want to tighten the screws.
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« Reply #51 on: January 05, 2016, 07:38:56 am »

yeah, i been taking a small break with Shop Depths and played aggro MUD for a while, doing 5-2 in the last P9C.
can't remember when i last played it, but think i cashed out once in december with it, but unfortunately, not all results get put up on mtggoldfish.

I still think the decks is very strong, nothing has changed much, still competitive in the meta so far.

I can see thopter tokens beeing a problem, like narcomoeba. ratchet bomb or engineered explosvies could be a solution. i like illness in the ranks too, but that is black ofc and get hit by chalice of the void.

I dont know what is the best list right now, if there is one, but i might try without missteps next time and more thorns.

whitedragon, i like nihil spellbomb in the sb, i'll probably try a couple of those as well.
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« Reply #52 on: January 05, 2016, 12:49:29 pm »

Cool deal.  Glad the deck is still competitive.  Nihil has been nice, Thiim :p. You'll like it.  

I actually like the idea of illness in the ranks.  Ratchet is okay, but will most likely be just a 2for1 in killing moxen. It can sweep the board of tokens once. But illness is a near-permanent solution to pyromancer, mentor, hangarback...which are all huge parts of the meta. Missteps can hit it, but hangarback (the biggest problem of the 3 token-makers) usually doesn't run misstep. And if they are missteping/FoWing my turn 1 illness, they spent that counter so maps can land. Hitting hangarback is priority #1 (they fly!), so illness looks like a winner to me!  Great suggestion!

*edit* illness also stops orchard tokens, nerfing oath until I can EoT make a marit and swing...bonus!
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« Reply #53 on: January 05, 2016, 07:29:26 pm »

One thing to take note, Illness makes Marit Lage a 19/19, not very relevant but just a precaution.
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« Reply #54 on: January 05, 2016, 08:10:15 pm »

One thing to take note, Illness makes Marit Lage a 19/19, not very relevant but just a precaution.
True, but rare is the vintage deck that doesn't self-inflict at least ONE point of damage :p.

Fetches, TSZ, FoW, Phyrexian mana, tomb...I guess it COULD require a second swing, but the trade off for wiping out all tokens forever for 1 mana is so worth it IMO.
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« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2016, 05:56:27 am »

Fetches, TSZ, FoW, Phyrexian mana, tomb...I guess it COULD require a second swing, but the trade off for wiping out all tokens forever for 1 mana is so worth it IMO.

It's the second thing you mentioned so I feel silly asking, but what's TSZ?
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« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2016, 07:20:51 pm »

Thoughtseize would be my guess.
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« Reply #57 on: January 08, 2016, 12:40:04 am »

Thoughtseize would be my guess.
yup
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« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2016, 04:53:34 pm »

Just 4-0 the daily with this list:

4 Lodestone Golem
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Jet
4 Tangle Wire
1 Mana Crypt
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Expedition Map
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Mana Vault
1 Lotus Petal
4 Mental Misstep
4 Mindbreak Trap
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Karakas
1 Black Lotus

SB: 4 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Dismember
SB: 2 Ghost Quarter
SB: 1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 2 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Crucible of Worlds

Round 1 Grisel oath 2-1

Round 2 Dredge 2-1

Round 3 Uba Stax 2-1

Round Tezzcast UR 2-0

This was the second time i played this list in the daily, the first time i went 2-1, because i fell asleep before the last round, because of the danm timezones Smile
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« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2016, 06:45:50 pm »

Awesome!  Congrats, man!!!  Glad to see you are having continued success Smile
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