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Author Topic: [CNS]Dack Fayden  (Read 52178 times)
fsecco
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« Reply #270 on: July 23, 2014, 10:29:41 pm »

I don't understand what kind of Mud Decks you're playing against to cast a three mana sorcery in the first place.  That's pretty impossible in my experience.
That is if they start the game, have a good hand (and you have no FoW) and you have no hate in your hand whatsoever. MUD games are complicated, but you have to treat'em almost like a combo matchup. If you counter a key card, if can seal the game. And if you manage to Hurkyl's and then drop Dack and +1, you're in a good place.

I mean, I'm not saying you should have Dack on your SB to bring in against MUD. Not at all. But I wouldn't take them out for the 2nd game either.

And I don't know about you, but if I manage to play a Dack against MUD and they don't have a threat on the table, I'll +1 once he hits the table. That way I'm left with 2 steals for whatever he's got going.

Of course, that changes once he has a Factory and I have no creatures, etc. But, on a void of threats, I'll ALWAYS +1 him first...

You should probably be more wary of Revoker, but otherwise I'm with you as well.
Sure, Revoker is probably the best here, and I'm sure it will rise in numbers together with Dack. But even on the probability that they'll play Revoker, +1ing is probably the best play. Of course, you have to take a lot of consideration on the game state, but with no other information, the +1 searches for hate and also gives 1 more turn with Dack on the table in case they do have Revoker.

PS: Also, I don't know if anyone talked about this here, but I love how Dack helps making Ancient Grudge cost 1 less by discarding it <3
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Saya
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« Reply #271 on: July 24, 2014, 01:33:02 am »

If they play Dack BEFORE golem, they will often try to snag your sol ring, tangle, etc to gain the mana advantage.  This puts Dack @ 1 loyalty, and then casting ANY creature, like golem off workshop + next land drop, will kill Dack before he can get back to 2 loyalty and steal an artifact again. 
In the scene dack's work are:gain a mana,deprive the opponent of a mana,exchange 2 cards,and gain some life.Aren't they enough as a 3-CC planeswalker?
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keys
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« Reply #272 on: July 24, 2014, 05:02:19 am »

PS: Also, I don't know if anyone talked about this here, but I love how Dack helps making Ancient Grudge cost 1 less by discarding it <3

Revoker will make MUD less likely to Chalice for 2, making it easier to cast red Grudge as well.
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gkraigher
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« Reply #273 on: July 24, 2014, 07:58:24 am »

Quote
Revoker will make MUD less likely to Chalice for 2, making it easier to cast red Grudge as well.

Not when the deck also runs cavern of souls.
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Samoht
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« Reply #274 on: July 24, 2014, 09:39:14 am »

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Revoker will make MUD less likely to Chalice for 2, making it easier to cast red Grudge as well.

Not when the deck also runs cavern of souls.

MUD doesn't want Chalice for 2 save in particular circumstances. When a deck needs Oath or Hurkyl's to win, it considers Chalice 2. Otherwise, 0 and 1 are really all they are looking for.

Fayden has been putting up results lately. He just pushed me into a t4 split at a 39 man event at Top Deck Games. Card is sweet.
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« Reply #275 on: July 24, 2014, 12:31:58 pm »

Revoker is really not all that great an answer for a deck that runs lightning bolt and Fire//ice. An uncontested pithing needle is more likely to stick around and actually deal with Dack
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« Reply #276 on: July 24, 2014, 02:29:13 pm »

Revoker is really not all that great an answer for a deck that runs lightning bolt and Fire//ice. An uncontested pithing needle is more likely to stick around and actually deal with Dack

Revoker is probablythe best answer when you have a Chalice on 1.
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Thiim
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« Reply #277 on: July 24, 2014, 02:37:08 pm »


[/quote]

MUD doesn't want Chalice for 2 save in particular circumstances. When a deck needs Oath or Hurkyl's to win, it considers Chalice 2. Otherwise, 0 and 1 are really all they are looking for.

[/quote]

Well, if I know my opponent is on Oath, I really don't consider much, If possible I just slam CotV on the table for 2! Also it stops a lot of other broken cards in the top tiers, time walk, Demononic tutor, Time vault, dark confidant, snapcaster mage, just to name a few.
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Samoht
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« Reply #278 on: July 24, 2014, 02:54:12 pm »



MUD doesn't want Chalice for 2 save in particular circumstances. When a deck needs Oath or Hurkyl's to win, it considers Chalice 2. Otherwise, 0 and 1 are really all they are looking for.

[/quote]

Well, if I know my opponent is on Oath, I really don't consider much, If possible I just slam CotV on the table for 2! Also it stops a lot of other broken cards in the top tiers, time walk, Demononic tutor, Time vault, dark confidant, snapcaster mage, just to name a few.
[/quote]

Yes, I said against Oath to jam CotV @ 2. I don't think turning off spheres drawn for the others is a good idea unless they are presenting Key already.
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« Reply #279 on: October 27, 2014, 10:32:13 am »

Dack proved himself in the eternal weekend.3 Delver decks with dack among TOP8.
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Chubby Rain
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« Reply #280 on: October 27, 2014, 05:02:08 pm »

I think Dack has been a proven commodity for a while. He just got even better with the printing of Treasure Cruise.
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« Reply #281 on: October 27, 2014, 07:57:48 pm »

I was wrong about this card. 
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Samoht
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« Reply #282 on: October 27, 2014, 09:20:50 pm »

I was wrong about this card. 

Glad to hear you say so. Smile
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« Reply #283 on: October 27, 2014, 10:52:01 pm »

If I had a bit more time, I would like to write up a primer on the UR Delver deck. For now, however I'd like to talk a bit about the role of Dack Fayden in that deck. Long ago, before Lodestone Golems were running around Vintage and being blocked by walls, it was sufficient to keep one's anti-artifact spells in the sideboard. For many Vintage decks, however, those days are long passed. Instead, the question isn't whether maindeck artifact hate is a good idea in Blue decks -- it is instead which artifact hate to run. For a long time, Trygon Predators and Ancient Grudges were incorporated into Vintage Delver decks. Those were the most powerful options against Workshop decks, and they were necessary inclusions despite the fact that they didn't really fit all that well into the general plan of the Delver decks. Not ideal, but it was the best option that Delver players had.

The best option, that is, until the Greatest Thief in the Multiverse arrived.

Dack lets you have reasonable artifact hate, without needing access to Green mana in the maindeck. Until other anti-artifact options which are actively bad in the mirror match, Dack is perfectly reasonable. When he isn't stealing artifacts, Dack is helping you fence your extra lands for business spells. Delver decks draw quite a few cards, and Dack helps to mitigate that scenario where you've drawn a bunch of cards but haven't drawn anything worthwhile. And while it needn't be mentioned, Dack is such a nice guy that he'll even pitch to Force of Will.

Which is all to say that Dack is finally an anti-Workshop card that you aren't embarrassed to maindeck in your Delver deck. I don't even cut him in the mirror match. And while not useful often, his Ultimate isn't entirely without merit. In a game on MODO, my Oath opponent had established Oath but no Orchard, and I had kept my creatures in my hand. Dack helped me turn my creatures into spells that stopped my opponent from Tutoring into his Orchard. Finally, Dack's Emblem arrived. By the time I put my creatures onto the battlefield, I was ready to convince Griselbrand to join my side with a bit of help from Fire/Ice.
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Varal
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« Reply #284 on: October 27, 2014, 11:16:46 pm »

Which is all to say that Dack is finally an anti-Workshop card that you aren't embarrassed to maindeck in your Delver deck. I don't even cut him in the mirror match. And while not useful often, his Ultimate isn't entirely without merit. In a game on MODO, my Oath opponent had established Oath but no Orchard, and I had kept my creatures in my hand. Dack helped me turn my creatures into spells that stopped my opponent from Tutoring into his Orchard. Finally, Dack's Emblem arrived. By the time I put my creatures onto the battlefield, I was ready to convince Griselbrand to join my side with a bit of help from Fire/Ice.

This look way better than the old Time Walk + Snapcaster into 20 damages or other unreliable strategies against a Game 1 resolved Oath.
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« Reply #285 on: October 27, 2014, 11:28:34 pm »

I had a Moat in play against a deck with no creatures but Pyromancers. I was quite confident that I had essentially won the game, but my opponent had active Dack and I had active Jace. I had run him out of win conditions that worked under Moat and was pretty sure he couldn't win.

He used Dack's ultimate and Ice'd my Jace to steal it, thus giving him a win condition. Note that it says "when cast", so countering it does not matter. I was shocked. Dack's ultimate can be quite relevant, even if it's very very rare. He truly is the greatest thief in the multiverse.
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« Reply #286 on: October 29, 2014, 09:34:07 am »

I had a Moat in play against a deck with no creatures but Pyromancers. I was quite confident that I had essentially won the game, but my opponent had active Dack and I had active Jace. I had run him out of win conditions that worked under Moat and was pretty sure he couldn't win.

He used Dack's ultimate and Ice'd my Jace to steal it, thus giving him a win condition. Note that it says "when cast", so countering it does not matter. I was shocked. Dack's ultimate can be quite relevant, even if it's very very rare. He truly is the greatest thief in the multiverse.

epic

He definitely gives you the incentive for pyroblast over REB.
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gkraigher
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« Reply #287 on: October 29, 2014, 11:23:14 am »

Looks like I will be adding Homeward Path to my MUD sideboard.  

Probably side out 2 ancient tombs vs the UR delver decks for 2 homeward path.  Seems like it improves the matchup tremendously.  

Boarding in more lands instead of spheres in the MUD mirror match on the draw is always a good thing too.  So they have 2 uses.  
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 03:03:34 pm by gkraigher » Logged
enderfall
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« Reply #288 on: October 30, 2014, 09:24:38 pm »

Looks like I will be adding Homeward Path to my MUD sideboard.  

Probably side out 2 ancient tombs vs the UR delver decks for 2 homeward path.  Seems like it improves the matchup tremendously.  

Boarding in more lands instead of spheres in the MUD mirror match on the draw is always a good thing too.  So they have 2 uses.  

Homeward Path... that's pretty funny and awesome at the same time. Nice tip!
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« Reply #289 on: October 31, 2014, 03:11:45 am »

Been running Dack in delver ever since VMA and never looked back. His card filtering ability is often underestimated, his +1 has won me a lot of games, that I would have lost, simply by giving me the best card of my top 3 each turn. Yeah the initial activation isn't too sexy but the succeeding one just gives value. Pre-TC you dump the extra lands drawn through Gush which, now it also fuels your TC. Two copies would remain in my 75 for a looong time.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 03:14:36 am by dragzz » Logged

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