UR Delver

[dragzz]

Managed to make top 4 with this deck on the first ever premier event last Sunday on MTGO, which made me really happy! I haven’t played vintage in a long time. I own the cards IRL but there doesn't seem to be a vintage scene here in Seattle (?) and I can't travel to other states to play.
I based my list on Smmenen's list for NYSE II, Lands and SB is very much identical, I made a couple of changes main deck, why I made those changes are explained below. I did a lot of play testing over the week to get me familiarized on how to properly play a Gush deck.

A brief tournament report based on my memory (which isn't that good now-a-days =P).

URg Delver
Planeswalker (1)
1 Dack Fayden

Creature (12)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Trygon Predator

Sorcery (6)
1 Ponder
4 Preordain
1 Time Walk

Instant (24)
4 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
4 Mental Misstep
2 Spell Pierce

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
4 Gush

4 Lightning Bolt
1 Nature's Claim
1 Ancient Grudge

Artifact (3)
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Skullclamp

Land (14)
2 Island
2 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn

Sideboard (15)
1 Dack Fayden
3 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Ingot Chewer
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Mountain
2 Pyroblast

Notable changes in the deck
Dack Fayden + 1 Main + 1 SB:
Dack has been amazing in testing. Next to drawing cards for 1 mana with skullclamp, nothing makes me happier that gushing then dumping extra lands via Dack. His -2 is only a bonus. I have been able to reach ultimate range with him, but never felt the need to activate it. 1 in the sideboard was mainly for shops.

1 Skullclamp:
Skullclamp, like Dack, is only there for the incidental value. For both cards - I felt that I drew them exactly when I needed them and they never felt dead. I fear that increasing the count of both Dack and Skullclamp to more than 1 in the main wouldn't be worth it.

0 Misdirection:
I would have probably played 1 - but I could never justify paying 80$ for it, so I added a full set of bolt. I would probably test out a Mindbreak Trap in its place.

0 Black Lotus:
Budget mainly - I allotted a certain amount for MTGO this month and felt that 2 moxen, + AR and Time Walk was a better investment for URg Delver. Would probably get one for the next event

0 Mystical:
Would probably pick up one for the next event, the deck has been good at giving me the cards that I need, thanks to the cantrips and I couldn't find through the bots.

0 Fire // Ice:
This would be stellar with a Dack Emblem, but surprisingly it was a little hard to look for - turned out they had gazillions in mtgotraders. Would probably add 1 in the main.

LordSapphire with LandStill, 2 - 0:
1 - Can't remember much but I had a couple of misplay on this one, I often misplay ponder and brainstorm, ending up putting the cards I need the most on the bottom. I accidentally put my force on the bottom of my BS pile and he resolved a standstill. I broke it and drew him 3 cards. I was able to win through delver and Pyromancer beats

2 - He started of a library and I cantrip go. Played a play a pyromancer t2 and we had a counter exchange afterwards. He couldn't find an answer in time.

G0ogle  with Landstill, 1 - 2:
1 - He was able to resolve as standstill 3 times in G2, I couldn't recover.
2 - Made a misplay on g3 that caused me the game - I made the decision to use my spell pierce to counter his drain keeping, my pyroblast for something else. On his next turn he played a crucible and I got locked out of the game.

sylverfyre with Affinity(?), 2 - 0
1 - He started with 2 1/1 lifelink, fliers. I was able to draw an ancient grudge and destroyed his threats while resolving a Trygon Predator, he scooped.
2 - He was able to get a clamp into play eating a memnite and a signal pest. I had a delver and young pyromancer. Ancient tomb eats his life with the help of some swings from delver. Drew a bolt when he was down to 2

powergamer1003 with UBW Control, 2 - 0
1 - I resolved a skullclamp with pyromancer in play.
2 - I went for a t1 delver which got countered. He played a confidant which I tried to counter, he had a force and it resolves. I drew a land on my next turn and used the red mana for a bolt. I managed to play a Trygon, then a Dack, while he had a trinket and a top. I activated Dack dumping a Pyroblast and a land, I was debating that spell pierce would be the better counter since he only had 3 mana sources and he would be using 1 of that to activate top. He did just that and tried to play AR, I spell pierced. On my turn I Gushed, then dumped extra lands using Dack. On the same turn I played Snapcaster - he scooped.

TheLastKing with BUG with Truename, 2 - 1
1 & 2 - Can't remember much but one thing I know is that True Name is a pain in the @$$.
3 - I was able to race 2 TNN with a delver and predator. I had to bolt him once and use nature's claim on my mox to survive, the game ended with me at 1 life with force of will in hand.

JDPheonix with Dredge! 2 - 0
1 - I was able to generate 8 elemental tokens with two Pyromancers, and had a Snapcaster and a Delver! I did not expect to win vs dredge on game 1 with the hand that I kept.
2 - I mulled to 5 with Grafdigger and some protection. I manage to land a single delver and protect the cage for the win.

TOP 8
aaronmm67 with Grixis control, 2-0
1 - Won from Pyromancer beats.
2 - Won on the back of multiple delvers.

KowalLazy with Manly Slaver!
3 - Got really greedy with my last round -  I had Force, Ancestral and Dack Fayden in play, I let tinker resolve thinking that whatever he's tinkering for I can just steal, forgot he had he had Slaver (duh! he even had drain mana). On my turn he drew bunch of cards with my AR and filtered his hand with my Dack. There was still hope for me, as he only had a few artifacts in play. But between AR, a bunch of Dack Fayden activations - he found his Yawgmoth's Will, and I got mind controlled me to death.

The deck played very smoothly for me. I made a couple of misplays but I didn't get really punished for it. There are a couple of things that I would change in the next tournament. I would probably move the Leylines out of the board and go with a full set of cage, I would probably add 1 more ancient grudge and reduce the mental missteps to 3, and try to make space for a lotus and a mystical tutor. I would keep the lightning bolts as a 4-off as I feel that they are very strong in the online metagame.

I love how I was able to play vintage and be silly with my daughter in between rounds. MTGO is great for Dads like myself

[keys]

Thanks for the report Dragzz.  Vintage MTGO sounds like it's going well and I hope it brings more players to the format.

On the deck, I think that running at least one Skullclamp is a must if you are playing 4 Pyromancer.  The upside is simply too great if you can manage to protect both.  Even without Pyromancer, you still have un-flipped Delvers and Snapcasters as potential targets.  The extra point of damage on a flipped Delver can even be useful in a race.

I'm less sold on Dack, but I agree he is a house against MUD.  The problem is that he doesn't really do anything on his own in any other matchup, except steal the odd Mox or tinker robot if you're really lucky (you have no way to tutor for him).

Side note: I've had so many opponents claim I misplayed by not stealing Batterskull, without realizing that they still control the germ token...

The card filtering is pretty underwhelming for a 3cc spell unless you're playing a ton of flashback cards or Welder.  At least Trygon predator can fly over for 2 (I think this is the best comparison-- I dropped one from the original list to include Dack).  And unless you're running multiple Pyroblast or Fire//Ice, his emblem isn't likely to steal anything either.  I'm not ruling him out quite yet, but there's a limited amount of room for a non-instant/sorcery 3cc spell in this deck.

Looking forward to more of Smennen's thoughts on these fringe cards, as well as his tourney report

[John Cox]

Dack amazing in other matches as well. Having the gush engine basically lets you draw 4 cards where you would normally draw 2. Against Grixis or Blue angels (broken blue) You just need Dack and a couple creatures to win. You shut off tinker, out draw them, and deny them any ability win with confidant and snapcaster beats.

[MoonDark]

Hey guys,

Been testing this deck online, how would you tune the MD to face a lot of workshops?

Haven't been a huge fan of Trygon, still waiting for Smmenen's tournament report so I can understand them better.

[JarofFortune]

Hey guys,

Been testing this deck online, how would you tune the MD to face a lot of workshops?

Make sure you have an Ancient Grudge, 4 bolts, and a mystical tutor maindeck. Running Wastelands helps a lot in this matchup too.

[MoonDark]

Hey guys,

Been testing this deck online, how would you tune the MD to face a lot of workshops?

Make sure you have an Ancient Grudge, 4 bolts, and a mystical tutor maindeck. Running Wastelands helps a lot in this matchup too.

I think that running one more MD mana source should help the match... not sure about running wastelands in a Gush deck though. I've never been able to resolve one Trygon Predator against Shops either. If Steel Hellkite happens to resolve you can only kill it with Trygon+Bolt or MD Grudge, if it hit's you it doesn't matter how many tokens, since when they activate for zero they will be gone.

Would love to hear more feedback for this match.

[JarofFortune]

I think that running one more MD mana source should help the match... not sure about running wastelands in a Gush deck though. I've never been able to resolve one Trygon Predator against Shops either. If Steel Hellkite happens to resolve you can only kill it with Trygon+Bolt or MD Grudge, if it hit's you it doesn't matter how many tokens, since when they activate for zero they will be gone.

Wasteland has been very good for me, despite running Gush. Being able to lock them under their own spheres is very satisfying, especially when they are running 6 drops. Additionally, it can deal with Cavern if they run it. If you are worried about fatties like hellkite, the key is just to bring in more grudges and some claims. Maybe shattering sprees. Hellkite is rarely a problem for the deck postboard.

[conboy31]

Is anyone still playing the mini green splash?  I've played some practice matches and feel like the strength of predator and grudge is almost equally negated by having less basics and a third color vs. shops.

[Samoht]

Is anyone still playing the mini green splash?  I've played some practice matches and feel like the strength of predator and grudge is almost equally negated by having less basics and a third color vs. shops.

My brief testing with the deck showed the exact opposite to be true. The match up went from unwinnable to giving it a real plan to victory.

[Coopes]

isn't a main gameplan of this deck vs mud to resolve the trygon and ride him to victoriy?

[JarofFortune]

isn't a main gameplan of this deck vs mud to resolve the trygon and ride him to victoriy?

If that is what Smmenen had in mind, I would be very surprised. Ideally, the deck should be more reliant on Cheap artifact destruction, while beating down. If you can resolve Trygon due to your Grudges and claims blowing up their spheres, then that is a great bonus. Trygon should not be the main plan, it should be a support plan, because you can't count on resolving trygon every game.  

Is anyone still playing the mini green splash?  I've played some practice matches and feel like the strength of predator and grudge is almost equally negated by having less basics and a third color vs. shops.

Another thing Green gives you is a better Oath matchup, as well as the ability to destroy random enchantments like moat. I agree with you on Trygon however, it feels rather clunky and slow, and Delver very much wants to leave up mana.

[conboy31]

I guess the green splash with predator and grudge might be more nuanced with having to know total mana sources, lands, etc.  With the 14 land, 2 mox, 1 lotus version of URg it seemed that the trump power of grudge/predator was at least partially offset by waste vulnerability and the associated variance of top decks after fetching trop or volcanic.  Completely agree with the oath comment, a fairly big difference between an opponent having to resolve one or two oaths coupled with the possibility of answering a cage.

[MoonDark]

isn't a main gameplan of this deck vs mud to resolve the trygon and ride him to victoriy?

If that is what Smmenen had in mind, I would be very surprised. Ideally, the deck should be more reliant on Cheap artifact destruction, while beating down. If you can resolve Trygon due to your Grudges and claims blowing up their spheres, then that is a great bonus. Trygon should not be the main plan, it should be a support plan, because you can't count on resolving trygon every game.  

Is anyone still playing the mini green splash?  I've played some practice matches and feel like the strength of predator and grudge is almost equally negated by having less basics and a third color vs. shops.

Another thing Green gives you is a better Oath matchup, as well as the ability to destroy random enchantments like moat. I agree with you on Trygon however, it feels rather clunky and slow, and Delver very much wants to leave up mana.

Totally agree on Trygon, as well as how games against shops have been playing out for me. Resolving a Trygon can happen, but it's much more important to try to resolve either of:

a) T1 Delver
b) Pretty early Pyromancer.

On G1 if you're not starting the match you'll usually be in pretty bad shape if you didn't hold a hand with FoW.

I agree on the Green against Oath, however I'm not sure if that is enough to go with green (I really love Grudge MD though). This deck has a lot of counter power, so it could be feasible to defend a single Cage against oath and have 4 SB.

[JarofFortune]

a) T1 Delver
b) Pretty early Two-Drop.

FTFY.

I agree on the Green against Oath, however I'm not sure if that is enough to go with green (I really love Grudge MD though). This deck has a lot of counter power, so it could be feasible to defend a single Cage against oath and have 4 SB.

That is not feasible. Most non-combo Oath decks now run Abrupt Decay. To attack Oath, you need the four cages, and some claims from the board. Whenever they pass the turn with BG up with on-board Oath and you having a cage in play, you have to play around the card if possible(Prioritzing Nature's Claim/second cage over playing a threat).  You also need hard counters like Mana Drain and pyroblast as opposed to unreliable cards like spell pierce, or in the end they are likely to overwhelm you just before you can finish them off. You have to be ready to combat the Show and Tell plan as well. Grudge is also amazing versus Oath decks, and Wasteland is highly effective at keeping them off a secondary color, if you want to go that route. 

[Samoht]

a) T1 Delver
b) Pretty early Two-Drop.

FTFY.

I agree on the Green against Oath, however I'm not sure if that is enough to go with green (I really love Grudge MD though). This deck has a lot of counter power, so it could be feasible to defend a single Cage against oath and have 4 SB.

That is not feasible. Most non-combo Oath decks now run Abrupt Decay. To attack Oath, you need the four cages, and some claims from the board. Whenever they pass the turn with BG up with on-board Oath and you having a cage in play, you have to play around the card if possible(Prioritzing Nature's Claim/second cage over playing a threat).  You also need hard counters like Mana Drain and pyroblast as opposed to unreliable cards like spell pierce, or in the end they are likely to overwhelm you just before you can finish them off. You have to be ready to combat the Show and Tell plan as well. Grudge is also amazing versus Oath decks, and Wasteland is highly effective at keeping them off a secondary color, if you want to go that route. 

You keep impressing me with your knowledge and analysis. I agree with everything you've said.

[serracollector]

If abrupt decay is your main worry against oath why not just side board or main deck misdirection or divert? this way you dont need to splash green and you can redirect the decay to thier own oath ftw

[DaveKap]

What are people's thoughts on 15th card sideboard options:

Skullclamp
Strip Mine
Vendilion Clique
Umezawa's Jitte
Tarmogoyf

[keys]

What are people's thoughts on 15th card sideboard options:

Skullclamp
Strip Mine
Vendilion Clique
Umezawa's Jitte
Tarmogoyf

Skullclamp should be MD if you're going to play it.  Strip Mine and Tarmogoyf both don't seem like they'll make much of an impact as a 1-of.

Jitte and Clique could be a metagame choices, assuming your Dredge/MUD matchups are already good enough.

[TheWhiteDragon]

The only thing I'd have to disagree on is Strip Mine.  That card is restricted for a reason and can be amazing.  I always run it MD in any deck I play, no matter what.  At worst, it's +1 mana.  At best, it can flat out win a game: your opponent mulls aggressively, say to 5 or 4, and then you kill his only land drop (basic or not); your opponent opens with shop, chalice 0, sphere/trini...and you strip the only shop he had; your opponent mulls for bazaar (like they always do) and get 1 activation off it before you remove their engine leaving them with crap in hand and grave.

These situations happen frequently enough.  Let's also not forget times it is solid, if
not game-winning: vs. Dark depths, karakas (if you're on oath), factory, or just color screwing a multicolored deck by cutting off one color.

Run strip main...always.

[serracollector]

One hundred percent agree with the above post.

[DaveKap]

I took 1st at yesterday's 23 man tournament on Long Island for a workshop:
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=46611.0

[Smmenen]

cross posted:

Congratulations!  nice to see you back in action

I wish my NYSE report had been posted, since I wrote it several weeks ago, but I think you'll find my detailed analysis and design considerations helpful to thinking through some of your own refinements. 

The only thing I'll mention now is that in a local tournament I tried Ravenous Traps, and ended up losing to Dredge, which never happens to me.  I didn't think they were adequate to defeat a top notch Dredge pilot consistently. 

[DaveKap]

Thoughts on Sylvan Library out of the board?

[portland]

Thoughts on Sylvan Library out of the board?

Meh, what specific decks would you use it for?

[DaveKap]

Oath, Storm, Slaver, Jace Control. Decks where 1G, pay 16 life, draw 4 cards and put a free top into play is attractive.

[msg67183]

Oath, Storm, Slaver, Jace Control. Decks where 1G, pay 16 life, draw 4 cards and put a free top into play is attractive.

You want to go to 4 life against Storm?!? Seems bad.

[DaveKap]

Liking a maindeck Dack. Cut the 2nd Predator. This seems like a downgrade really only against Oath. Compensate by maindecking a Claim.
 
4 Delver
4 Pyromancer
2 Snap
1 Trygon

1 Dack

4 FoW
3 Misstep
2 Fluster
1 Pierce
1 Snare
1 MisD

1 BS
1 Ponder
1 Ancestral
4 Preordain
4 Gush

1 Mystical
1 Grudge
1 Claim
4 Bolt
1 Walk

3 Misty
4 Tarn
3 Volcanic
2 Trop
2 Island
1 Ruby
1 Sapphire
1 Lotus

SB
4 Chewer
4 Cage
2 Trap
2 Pyroblast
1 Mountain
1 Claim
1 Skullclamp

[dragzz]

I've started to drop the splash in favor of running 2 Dack Fayden - MD and I'm liking it so far. In my testing Dack has won games where I would have lost if not for Dack's excellent filtering ability. With misstep, spell pierce and spell snare, finding the right counter spell is tricky and Dack just gives excellent card quality over a series of activation that it simply can't be dismissed, while also protecting us from Tinker > Colossus.

Here's the deck that I'm currently running, I haven’t been home early enough to join the Qualifiers or Dailies, but recent 4-0's/4-1 in MTGO seem to follow this trend as well, with a couple of players running the exact same 60/75 which much success.

Card Draw/Broken Things
2 Dack Fayden
1 Ponder
4 Preordain
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
4 Gush
1 Skullclamp
1 Time Walk

Critters
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer

Control
1 Fire & Ice
2 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mental Misstep
1 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare

Mana
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Strip Mine
3 Volcanic Island

Sideboard
3 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Ingot Chewer
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Pyroblast
1 Shattering Spree
1 Mountain

Yes, it does sacrifice a lot vs the Oath Matchup in favor of beating BUG and Grixis Control, but if you can get ahead on card advantage then you are usually in good shape vs Oath.

Not sure if dropping green is the correct approach at this point, running UR vs URx has very little upside. Vs shops you would rarely fetch for unless you are able to get to the mid game. I'm curious if anyone has tried splashing other colors recently, and if it has worked well for them?

[JarofFortune]

You can still keep green and run Dack. The card quality dack gives you is actually great in the oath matchup if you bring in enough claims and cages.

On other colors, I think Rug is the strongest. There is some incentive to run white over green if you want more versatility with removal, as well as wear//tear and rest in peace, but white has a worse shop matchup.

[serracollector]

Adding white could also give you access to swords to plowshares and stoneforge out of the side if you so choose as well. i have been thinking white could be the good route for a while now to help vs the mass of creatures now in vintage.