Hex lawsuit

[evouga]

Hex, an online-only TCG similar to magic, is being sued for copyright, trade dress, and patent infringement: http://www.vg247.com/2014/05/20/wizards-of-coast-sue-hex-shards-of-fate-lawsuit/

Since I know several lawyers play Vintage, I figure I would ask here: suppose WotC prevails on the patent claims (which seem to be where Hex is most vulnerable): if Hex does not sell any copies before the mtg patents expire in June, what's the worst remedy that Hex might expect? Isn't the patent claim a moot point? Or is there a "fruit of the poisoned tree" principle that prohibits Hex from doing R&D/beta testing using patented inventions?

[zimagic]

I'm always intrigued on the rare occasions these lawsuits come up. Magic & YGO, and to a certain extent Pokemon, have been such dominant players in the market for so long and have covered such a myriad of rules, game formatting, layouts & mechanics that surely there's an argument that every subsequent TCG is a clone. Hex isn't the first to have an online version going hand in hand with mechanics similiar to Magic. Why haven't there been more of these kinds of cases?

TCGs (and DBGs) are so parisitic now anyway, how can you start to argue after 25 years that there's any sort of infringement if you haven't been chasing every other game for infringement up to now?

Look at Force of Will TCG: it's openly marketed to position itself in the apparent age gap between YGO & MTG even down to the mechanics: tapping, mana, the stack, trap cards and others I probably missed in my quick presual of the samples I flicked through. It's essentially Magic with Hero cards (WoW), trap cards (YGO) and different art.

[MaximumCDawg]

Since I know several lawyers play Vintage, I figure I would ask here: suppose WotC prevails on the patent claims (which seem to be where Hex is most vulnerable): if Hex does not sell any copies before the mtg patents expire in June, what's the worst remedy that Hex might expect? Isn't the patent claim a moot point? Or is there a "fruit of the poisoned tree" principle that prohibits Hex from doing R&D/beta testing using patented inventions?

And you think lawyers who play Vintage are going to give you legal advice on this topic?  No sir.

I will say this much.  Money damages are not the only kind of remedy a court can impose.  A court can also give injunctive relief.  That means the court can order someone to do something or stop doing something.  If the person ignores the court's command, they can face fines, jail time, or other damages.  

EDIT: And, as a player, I can say this, too.  Wizards, take a look at the Hex client.  Now look at MTGO.  Back to Hex.  Back to MTGO.  Do you notice how one of these things looks like an actual video game and the other one looks like someone installed AOL from a series of floppy disks?  Do you think you might want to do something about that rather than filing lawsuits?  Just saying.

[evouga]

Since I know several lawyers play Vintage, I figure I would ask here: suppose WotC prevails on the patent claims (which seem to be where Hex is most vulnerable): if Hex does not sell any copies before the mtg patents expire in June, what's the worst remedy that Hex might expect? Isn't the patent claim a moot point? Or is there a "fruit of the poisoned tree" principle that prohibits Hex from doing R&D/beta testing using patented inventions?

And you think lawyers who play Vintage are going to give you legal advice on this topic?  No sir.

Huh? I'm not looking for legal advice (I'm not a game designer), just curious about how our legal system works.

[evouga]

Since I know several lawyers play Vintage, I figure I would ask here: suppose WotC prevails on the patent claims (which seem to be where Hex is most vulnerable): if Hex does not sell any copies before the mtg patents expire in June, what's the worst remedy that Hex might expect? Isn't the patent claim a moot point? Or is there a "fruit of the poisoned tree" principle that prohibits Hex from doing R&D/beta testing using patented inventions?

I will say this much.  Money damages are not the only kind of remedy a court can impose.  A court can also give injunctive relief.  That means the court can order someone to do something or stop doing something.  If the person ignores the court's command, they can face fines, jail time, or other damages.  

Right, I understand that, I think. But by the time the court case ends the WotC patent will likely have expired years ago. What kind of injunction might WotC be hoping for at that point?

[boxian]

If you haven't read it, I think this was a pretty good write up with a better than average comment section. Especially as I don't know diddley about The Law, I thought it did a good job explaining it to someone with a lack of knowledge.

http://www.quietspeculation.com/2014/05/understanding-the-wizards-v-hex-lawsuit-in-plain-english/

[MaximumCDawg]

Since I know several lawyers play Vintage, I figure I would ask here: suppose WotC prevails on the patent claims (which seem to be where Hex is most vulnerable): if Hex does not sell any copies before the mtg patents expire in June, what's the worst remedy that Hex might expect? Isn't the patent claim a moot point? Or is there a "fruit of the poisoned tree" principle that prohibits Hex from doing R&D/beta testing using patented inventions?

I will say this much.  Money damages are not the only kind of remedy a court can impose.  A court can also give injunctive relief.  That means the court can order someone to do something or stop doing something.  If the person ignores the court's command, they can face fines, jail time, or other damages.  

Right, I understand that, I think. But by the time the court case ends the WotC patent will likely have expired years ago. What kind of injunction might WotC be hoping for at that point?

Injunctions can be preliminary as well as permanent.