Where are the remora?

[MasamuneK]

One of my favorite card seems to have fade off the metagame.
Being a good card against Gush and blue decks, I don't see why there couldn't be a place for it.
But I am wondering which shell would fit it.

I am not very sold on the commandeer, meditate package. I think Remora is better with a normal control shell.

However, Angel seems too mana demanding. Bomberman, also.

Because of the weakness of Remora against creatures (and BUG in particular), UW seems nice.
But I also think Remora in a Gush pyromancer shell could work well.

If you have any idea, let's discuss

Edit:
For those interested, I was digging decklists and I found a video made by EvolutionGoya, spanish vintage channel apparently. http://www.twitch.tv/evolutiongoya/c/2341515
I dont speak spanish but I think they are trying the worth MU with a UW build versus BUG. And even if the build seems to have some sword, there arent enough answer and G2 an 3 are pretty bad for Remora.
This list plays Repeal, quite insteresting choice and stoneforge.
 

[mmcgeach]

I tried in BUG control.  It seems like it's good with bob and deathrite; and BUG gives you access to abrupt decay to answer creatures.

I'm pretty sure the key to the older remora lists was Bob.  Having Bob out with a remora draws you into the lands + moxes you need to keep paying for remora.  Also it squeezes your opponent.  If you play bob, your opponent wants to play fast to race the bob advantage.  But if you play remora, your opponent wants to play slow to wait out the remora upkeep.  If you play both... your opponent has no options.

Deathrite does close to the same thing as bob: provide some extra mana and provide a clock that prevents your opponent from stalling.

I think the real problem tho is the creature-based meta-game.  Remora seems like like it needs to be in a deck that has some kind of creature-trumping ability... stoneforge/batterskull, maybe, or Tezz AoB. 

[Bill Copes]

I've been toying with an Oath-Remora shell, with Show and Tell to play the drawn Grizzles.  It seems okay.

[Eastman]

The significant increase in creature-based strategies has really hurt remora.  Even a lot of gush lists now have delver or pyromancer, either of which are extremely strong responses to remora.  But as combo pokes its way back into the meta I could see it reappearing some.  It's not a bad sideboard card in the right decklist (i.e. one with a lot of controlling elements). 

[MTGFan]

Creatures have gotten a lot better in Vintage in recent years, so Remora can often be a liability against too many decks.

[Bibendum]

A few months back I split the top 4 of mox event on Remora Gush. It was BUG. I don't have the list in front of me but I think I can probably get it within 4-5 cards or so:

2 Trygon Predator
1 Blightsteel Collosus
2 Jace The Mind Sculpter

4 Force of will
4 Gush
3 Mystic remora
2 Preordain
2 Mental Misstep
2 Mana Drain
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Ancestral recall
1 Yawg Will
1 Time Walk
1 Voltaic Key
1 Time Vault
1 Brainstorm
1 Fastbond
1 Natures Claim
1 Yawgmoths Will
1 Tinker
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor
5 Mox
1 Sol
1 Crypt
1 Lotus
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Island


I think that was close to the shell. Deluge's in the board typical dredge and shop hate. I think I'd try to find a way to jam Snapcasters or maybe even Deathrites into the main. The deck did well. It was ok against shops, which most gush decks have awful match ups against, the card advantage it generated against traditional blue decks was unreal. The main downfall as everyone here says, as soon as your opponent was on dudes it gets exponentially worse.

[MasamuneK]

It seems the remora was hiding in Spain

Interesting take on the card and congrats to
1st - Sergi Hernández - Gush Remora
Maindeck:
1 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Snow-Covered Island
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Talrand, Sky Summoner
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Black Lotus
1 Brainstorm
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Fastbond
4 Force of Will
4 Gush
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Mana Crypt
2 Mana Drain
3 Mental Misstep
1 Merchant Scroll
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Mystic Remora
1 Mystical Tutor
3 Preordain
1 Sol Ring
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
Sideboard:
1 Forest
1 Talrand, Sky Summoner
3 Trygon Predator
1 Flusterstorm
1 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Nature's Claim
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Ravenous Trap

[Hrishi]

If you don't mind my asking, what is the benefit of playing Remora along with a Gush shell? I have never played with a Remora package before, and I'd be most interested in finding out what makes Remora tick!

[Greg]

Creatures have gotten a lot better in Vintage in recent years, so Remora can often be a liability against too many decks.

I agree.

I actually ran an odd Oath of Druids variant last year that featured a Mystic Remora package. It was somewhat successful, but not fantastic. Creatures were getting more popular at that time, but nothing like today's metagame. Nowadays, I think it'd be very hard to justify any deck competitively running this card due to the mass of creatures that are seeing play in virtually every deck. It's certainly not a terrible option, but nothing noteworthy at the moment.

[MasamuneK]

If you don't mind my asking, what is the benefit of playing Remora along with a Gush shell? I have never played with a Remora package before, and I'd be most interested in finding out what makes Remora tick!

That's not my list, it was from a tournament report from Spain and we may be able to have some feedback from the deck designer.
Atog lord and me has been testing. And until now, it has been very smooth and efficient deck.

Remora is a great card advantage. I dont know if we can talk of special synergy between Gush and Remora, except to help paying the cost sometime. But mainly, the goal is to play remora, draw go, feel your hand, counter their threat and win counter war with Mindbreak trap.

It s a bit like playing landstill

[Random Noob]

Toxic Deluge could work very good with Remoras. Was searching for some UB Storm, creatureless, with many Deluges. Guess Remora could be the enabler that fits.

[MasamuneK]

We was talking about that today with some other guys on manadrain. In the creature heavy meta base on Modo, toxic deluge is great.
And with remora it s great. but maybe only in SB, I am not sure. I found I always have so many blue cards, some commandeer could be good too. mana drain has been sadly underperforming, double blue and no use for the drain mana.
but we are onto something

[Lurker101]

I've been testing it in a deck revolving around Stasis and Eon Hub. Since Eon Hub makes you skip your upkeep it's easier to keep remora in play for longer and even have multiples out at once. Here's my list so far (still pretty rough):

4 Eon Hub
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Opal
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring

4 Mystic Remora
3 Stasis
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tinker
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
3 Mana Drain
3 Force of Will
2 Daze
1 Mystical Tutor

1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Brago, King Eternal
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Batterskull
2 Stoneforge Mystic

4 Tundra
2 Plains
3 Flooded Strand
1 Strip Mine
2 Island
1 Tolarian Academy
1 City of Traitors
1 Library of Alexandria
2 Ghost Quarter

[MasamuneK]

I've been testing it in a deck revolving around Stasis and Eon Hub. Since Eon Hub makes you skip your upkeep it's easier to keep remora in play for longer and even have multiples out at once. Here's my list so far (still pretty rough):

4 Eon Hub
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Opal
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring

4 Mystic Remora
3 Stasis
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tinker
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
3 Mana Drain
3 Force of Will
2 Daze
1 Mystical Tutor

1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Brago, King Eternal
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Batterskull
2 Stoneforge Mystic

4 Tundra
2 Plains
3 Flooded Strand
1 Strip Mine
2 Island
1 Tolarian Academy
1 City of Traitors
1 Library of Alexandria
2 Ghost Quarter

Thanks for sharing. How does the test go? I am a bit sceptic about playing a 5 mana card that do nothing. I understand the idea with stasis but a card like repeal does the same and has more functionality.

I think for remora to work you must be either active and therefore "protect your threat" with it or very passive with commandeer where they behave a bit like lands till.

the gush deck is in the proactive style but I had some trouble with it against young pyro. it also might be better to play them not so early in this kind of deck except against storm or workshop where you are control.

Demars published a Bant list on starcity. I think the mana base is pretty off but it sure does good use of remora by putting threat on the table, especially trigon. trigon is really a house with the online meta game right niw

[Lurker101]

I actually really like Eon Hub. The manacost hasn't been much of an issue and there are lots of synergies. Not only does it help upkeep costs but it also shuts off Oath and Dark Confidant. It has some nice applications with fading cards. It also prevents Mana Crypt damage which is pretty small but sometimes relevant. It works well with Pact of Negation too but I doubt that's reliable enough. I've been testing out multiple builds with Eon Hub and Stasis will post the best one once I get more testing done. I think the final build will probably include Remora as well.

[forests failed you]

For what it's worth I always play Mystic Remora in Midrange Bant lists.  I like it a lot in those decks because you can pressure with creatures, have mana dorks, etc.  I have an updated list in my article on SCG this week.

[MasamuneK]

Brian, it s what I was saying, that s the proactive plan. But I tried your list and I think the mana base is off. I understand you want basics against shops but all your deck is against shops already and with only one tropical, it makes it hard. I think the plains should be a tundra and the island a tropical. But otherwise nice list