Is KTK a new Alara Block

[Protoaddict]

Treasure Cruise will be a powerhouse in legacy I am thinking, even as a 2 of in some blue based tempo decks, because those decks fill the yard very consistently with counters and need something to put them over the top if the game goes late.

Hell, one of in Merfolk? I could see that.

I think this set is on the right path. There are a lot of cards that look to have potential, but are not so overtly powerful that you can just slide them into a list. They all need testing.

I mean hell, that 4/4 Trample monkey with delve has potential in other formats. How often can you say that?

[MaximumCDawg]

Okay, now we've got the full spoiler.  Here's my conclusions:

1. The set has fewer obvious eternal plants than we've seen in recent sets.  We see no random Spirits of the Labyrinth or anything that was stuffed in there to cater to eternal.  I bet that's a consequence of the fact that Wizards is tightening up block design from here on out and did not have extra space to spend on these kind of cards.

2. Wizards was, indeed, timid with the potentially abusive mechanics.  Or perhaps "timid" is the wrong word.  The only serious possibilities for Vintage in this set are cards with the Delve.  The cards they printed with Delve almost feel like they're treating it like a fixed threshold; the cards are incredibly powerful late game, but cannot be used in the early game.  This seems less like a decision to "power down" the set, and more a decision about how they want to shape the Modern metagame down the road.  Broken cards are fine, just please don't end the game before turn 4.

3. For Vintage, this set just might produce fewer playables than Theros.  Those of you who have had your pants down and been busy depositing your opinions all over this set since spoiler season started might have a point.  I think Journey in Nyx probably had more Vintage possibilities than this set.  But, for other formats, this set has far more fun and useful cards than Theros did.  The fetches and tri-lands alone are welcome additions to Modern, Ghave EDH has tons of new goodies amongst cards that care about +1/+1 counters, etc.  The set looks fun to draft, which Theros did not look at all.

All in all: Fine design, fun set, just not really directed at us.

[Protoaddict]

I disagree. I think this set may have more cards than theros now after seeing the whole list.

Cards with limited appeal but potential in some list/sideboards
Treasure Cruse
Howl of the Horde
Dig Through time
Murderous Cut
Stubborn Denial
Grim Haruspex (Humans)
Hooting Mandrills
Anafenza, the Foremost
Monastery Swiftspear (delver)

Cards that probably will see play
all 5 fetches

[MaximumCDawg]

Cards that probably will see play
all 5 fetches

Agree, but by this standard Island counts as a playable card for Vintage.  I don't think reprints really make a set matter.  As to the rest:

Cards with limited appeal but potential in some list/sideboards

Treasure Cruse  - Maybe.  Interesting, and worth testing.

Howl of the Horde - Yeah, you know the problem with Fork?  That pesky ability to be a counterspell sometimes and get more utility when you don't have another good card in your hand.  All Fork needed to be playable was to be more expensive, have less utility, and be useful only when you have a creature attacking and a good card in your hand to cast with it.

Dig Through time  - Maybe.  Interesting, and worth testing.

Murderous Cut  - Maybe.  Interesting, and worth testing in Dredge.

Stubborn Denial  - Maybe.  Interesting, and worth testing in Fish.

Grim Haruspex - If you wanted Fecundity colorshifted to black, you got that last year.  Now they up the ante by putting Fecundity for your side only on a 3/2 body for the same price.  Not too shabby!  Also not really playable.  Absent combo applications (for which we would be using one of the prior printings if it was worth it) Humans is not looking for a way to draw cards off your opponent's Toxic Deluge.  Non-disruptive midrange creatures need not apply in Vintage aggro.

Hooting Mandrills - What, did you run out of Joten Grunts to play with?

Anafenza, the Foremost - Maybe.  Interesting, and worth testing as a one-of sideboard against Dredge.

Monastery Swiftspear (delver) - What

[MaximumCDawg]

So, now that Legacy and Modern are busy filling their diapers over Treasure Cruise and Jeskai Ascendancy, respectively, what's the final verdict on Khans?

I have not actually changed my analysis much since the release.  Khans has tons of fun cards, is a far better set than Theros, but really isn't designed with Vintage in mind (what is, really?).  We in this forum pretty much pegged the few good possibilities for Vintage, but even they have yet to really make a huge impact on the metagame.  I will admit that I have to revise my estimate of Swiftspear up slightly, as it really can be a decent roleplayer.  The insight was that, as long as you're casting one non-creature spell during each of your first main phases, she is almost an upgrade over Goblin Guide.  Now, Guide wasn't really tearing up Vintage tables, but he's a fine card, so maybe Swiftspear can succeed where Kiln Fiend did not.

Anyone who plays online able to chime in on whether Khans is making a splash there, where the meta shifts more rapidly?

[JarofFortune]

I was wrong about Khans when I speculated on its merit as a set halfway through spoiler season. I didn't want to get my hopes up after they were dashed by the abomination that is Theros block and M15. Khans, while not on the level of Innistrad or RTR, is a good set that can offer lots of things to all formats, and all types of players(Except perhaps, prison players).  Cruise and Dig are both excellent cards for Vintage, and those cards alone are enough for me, given that Wizards has just printed good blue Card draw/selection for the first time in what feels like forever. Swiftspear has no place in Vintage, at least currently.

[vaughnbros]

So, now that Legacy and Modern are busy filling their diapers over Treasure Cruise and Jeskai Ascendancy, respectively, what's the final verdict on Khans?

I have not actually changed my analysis much since the release.  Khans has tons of fun cards, is a far better set than Theros, but really isn't designed with Vintage in mind (what is, really?).  We in this forum pretty much pegged the few good possibilities for Vintage, but even they have yet to really make a huge impact on the metagame.  I will admit that I have to revise my estimate of Swiftspear up slightly, as it really can be a decent roleplayer.  The insight was that, as long as you're casting one non-creature spell during each of your first main phases, she is almost an upgrade over Goblin Guide.  Now, Guide wasn't really tearing up Vintage tables, but he's a fine card, so maybe Swiftspear can succeed where Kiln Fiend did not.

Anyone who plays online able to chime in on whether Khans is making a splash there, where the meta shifts more rapidly?

Its been out for one week... Most cards take months to make their way into the vintage metagame.

[MaximumCDawg]

So, now that Legacy and Modern are busy filling their diapers over Treasure Cruise and Jeskai Ascendancy, respectively, what's the final verdict on Khans?

I have not actually changed my analysis much since the release.  Khans has tons of fun cards, is a far better set than Theros, but really isn't designed with Vintage in mind (what is, really?).  We in this forum pretty much pegged the few good possibilities for Vintage, but even they have yet to really make a huge impact on the metagame.  I will admit that I have to revise my estimate of Swiftspear up slightly, as it really can be a decent roleplayer.  The insight was that, as long as you're casting one non-creature spell during each of your first main phases, she is almost an upgrade over Goblin Guide.  Now, Guide wasn't really tearing up Vintage tables, but he's a fine card, so maybe Swiftspear can succeed where Kiln Fiend did not.

Anyone who plays online able to chime in on whether Khans is making a splash there, where the meta shifts more rapidly?

Its been out for one week... Most cards take months to make their way into the vintage metagame.

That would have been true last year, but MTGO metagames move at light speed.  Admittedly, I am not involved in that scene, so I do not know if it's mature enough to be reacting like the other formats do online yet.  Which is why I asked ya'll about that.

[vaughnbros]

So, now that Legacy and Modern are busy filling their diapers over Treasure Cruise and Jeskai Ascendancy, respectively, what's the final verdict on Khans?

I have not actually changed my analysis much since the release.  Khans has tons of fun cards, is a far better set than Theros, but really isn't designed with Vintage in mind (what is, really?).  We in this forum pretty much pegged the few good possibilities for Vintage, but even they have yet to really make a huge impact on the metagame.  I will admit that I have to revise my estimate of Swiftspear up slightly, as it really can be a decent roleplayer.  The insight was that, as long as you're casting one non-creature spell during each of your first main phases, she is almost an upgrade over Goblin Guide.  Now, Guide wasn't really tearing up Vintage tables, but he's a fine card, so maybe Swiftspear can succeed where Kiln Fiend did not.

Anyone who plays online able to chime in on whether Khans is making a splash there, where the meta shifts more rapidly?

Its been out for one week... Most cards take months to make their way into the vintage metagame.

That would have been true last year, but MTGO metagames move at light speed.  Admittedly, I am not involved in that scene, so I do not know if it's mature enough to be reacting like the other formats do online yet.  Which is why I asked ya'll about that.

It hasn't even been released yet on MTGO... They have deviated release dates.