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HappyNewyear
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« on: September 10, 2014, 08:32:48 am » |
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Treasure Cruise7U Sorcery Delve Draw 3 Cards ----- Well, if it wasn't for that word "Sorcery", this would be a lot more playable. This might be something in a storm build (where you can exile your unneeded chaff in your yard), but odds are it's just not good enough.
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PETER FLUGZEUG
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New Ease
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« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2014, 08:40:40 am » |
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I think this is a fine common. It will need a bit of building around, but if you manage to put 4 cards into your graveyard quickly, you pay 2U to draw 3 cards. Great late game bomb.
It kind of reminds me of thoughtcast's bigger brother: potentially very strong, but hosed hard by a few cards: leyline, deathrite shaman and rest in peace, where it becomes absolutely uncastable postboard. Hilarious to drain this and hardcast your blightsteel afterwards.
Overall, I'd say it won't see a lot of play but could pop up in some dedicated combo-esque builds. the synergy with draw7s is there (even with twister: if you play this card before twister, you can thin your library really nicely).
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I will be playing four of these. I'll worry about the deck later.
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boggyb
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« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2014, 08:41:52 am » |
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Whoa.
This is very good at U2 -- it's equivalent to Merchant Scroll for Ancestral -- and potentially game-winning at U1 or U.
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Protoaddict
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« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2014, 09:39:40 am » |
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Besides the interaction this could have with dredge, which is to say you remove 7 whatevers from your yard to dredge 3 to fill your yard more, I don't ever see this being played.
Thoughtcast is way easier to pull off in most traditional decks that are running 5 moxen, lotus, crypt, sol ring, time vault, key, etc, let alone builds around it, and that card sees less than no play (which may be a mistake.) and this is harder to pull off and easier to board against.
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JarofFortune
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« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2014, 09:44:33 am » |
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Wow, I'm going to test this card this afternoon. This is the kind of card that rug could use late game for the grindy match ups. Not to mention it can't be misdirected or mistepped.
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The Auriok have fought the metal hordes for so long now that knowing how to cripple them has become an instinct. -Metal Fatigue
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Meddling Mike
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« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2014, 10:08:28 am » |
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This actually strikes me as a card that is tailor made for Dredge. I already run Ancestral and this would seem to perform a similar function on turn 2 or later. My concern is that it might be a bit of a "win more" card in that situation.
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Meddling Mike posts so loudly that nobody can get a post in edgewise.
Team TMD - If you feel that team secrecy is bad for Vintage put this in your signature
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2014, 10:28:57 am » |
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It's an improvement on that Ancestral Recall riff from M2012 that required 20 cards in a player's yard to activate. This, like a few other things they spoiled last night, seems to demonstrate that Wizards is experimenting with cards that are very cheap to cast, broken even, but putting conditions on them that prevent them from being used in the early game.
I'm with the crowd; Dredge gets this card active on turn 1, and then we're talking five Ancestral Recalls. But, does Dredge need that? Maybe not, but perhaps Dragon does...? Remember, we also got that 1G dig spell that grabs your animate dead and puts the Dragon in the yard, too.
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Samoht
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Team RST
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« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2014, 10:35:39 am » |
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 Isn't it better to draw 4 and fill your grave instead of emptying it? Not in G2/G3 when you actually need it, right? Like sure it's faster/better against no hate but that isn't what makes cards good. This card seems stellar against Cage which is PE #1 right now. |
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Char? Char you! I like the play.
-Randy Bueller
I swear I'll burn the city down to show you the light.
The best part of believe is the lie
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fsecco
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« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2014, 10:44:30 am » |
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I like how they're experimenting with Delve. This is something to watch. Of course it's worse than Ancestral, but even if you 2U to draw 3 it's nice. I hope this delve thing makes people experiment with Bazaar of Baghdad in control decks  Now I'll just wait for a Rebuild/Hurkyl's with Delve and we're set! |
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Meddling Mike
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« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2014, 10:57:22 am » |
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Not in G2/G3 when you actually need it, right? Like sure it's faster/better against no hate but that isn't what makes cards good. This card seems stellar against Cage which is PE #1 right now.
This. Also, it's helpful when their hate cards are things like Yixlid Jailer or Pithing Needle on Bazaar of Baghdad or Wasteland on Bazaar. |
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Meddling Mike posts so loudly that nobody can get a post in edgewise.
Team TMD - If you feel that team secrecy is bad for Vintage put this in your signature
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Protoaddict
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« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2014, 01:22:39 pm » |
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This card could be amazing if some combo arises that abuses it. With all the grave removal stuff WOTC prints lately I wouldn't be surprised to see cards that did stuff with a trigger of when a card is removed from the yard. We did get that guy in the latest core set that gets a buff if you have things in exile, so that is a step in that direction.
But as a draw engine, I don't think this is going to happen in anything but dredge realistically.
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JarofFortune
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« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2014, 02:06:20 pm » |
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The point of this card Isn't that it's a draw engine. Its purpose would be as a second Ancestral in some decks.
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The Auriok have fought the metal hordes for so long now that knowing how to cripple them has become an instinct. -Metal Fatigue
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2014, 02:07:20 pm » |
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What's the design philosophy here? That Wizards is fine with people refilling their hand for cheap in the late game, they just want to stop people from going Turn 1 - Ancestral? That's reasonable, I guess. Oh, man, what about using this is Legacy High Tide? Lets the deck cherry pick what cards from the yard get Spiral'd back while also being a draw engine on its own? The point of this card Isn't that it's a draw engine. Its purpose would be as a second Ancestral in some decks.
For that purpose, it seems like a 1-of that you have just to fetch out later if it comes up. Basically just like that 2012 Ancestral but much easier to cast as the game progresses. |
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zeus-online
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« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2014, 02:13:16 pm » |
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« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 03:53:35 pm by zeus-online »
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The truth is an elephant described by three blind men.
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fsecco
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« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2014, 03:24:13 pm » |
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This dodges grave hate since you remove as part of casting. And if anyone brings grave hate to fight this 1-of vs a control deck I'm happy.
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Protoaddict
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« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2014, 03:32:13 pm » |
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As it pertains just to vintage and not other formats, I COULD imagine this being a 1 of in merfolk, just as a late game or board wipe recovery plan, since that deck does not recur from the yard like most others. That would have to be tested, assuming merfolk is still a thing this cycle.
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zeus-online
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« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2014, 03:58:50 pm » |
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« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 03:47:38 pm by zeus-online »
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The truth is an elephant described by three blind men.
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Protoaddict
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« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2014, 05:08:54 pm » |
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It is also a sorcery, so you cannot respond to their anti-yard cards with it.
True, but they also cannot respond to this with Deathrite because delve is paid as part of the cost, so you win some lose some  |
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fsecco
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« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2014, 05:30:26 pm » |
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If this was an instant is would obviously be much better as some kind of anti-graveyard-hate card... I'm still hoping for that Rebuild with Delve, though!
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JarofFortune
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« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2014, 05:51:41 pm » |
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I think i would rather play fact or fiction.
Generally speaking, when i have 7 cards in my graveyard, i also have 4+ mana.
Actually, lets take a closer look:
zero cards in graveyard: FoF is clearly superior
1 card in graveyard: FoF
2 cards in graveyard: FoF
3 cards in graveyard: FoF
4 cards in graveyard: Hmm i think the instant speed wins FoF this one.
5-7 cards: Well, now we are talking mana, sorcery speed vs. instant speed and how much this cards wrecks your yawg will and snapcaster.
All-over, i would rather have FoF. I think FoF's effect is roughly equal to drawing 3 cards, often a little better.
FoF also dodges various graveyard hate.
FoF may be better in a deck with lots of Artifact mana, but In Rug, a much more mana-light deck, this card is much better. Also, most FoF decks nowadays don't have Yawgwill in them, and I don't think this makes your snapcasters much worse in the right shell, to be honest. |
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The Auriok have fought the metal hordes for so long now that knowing how to cripple them has become an instinct. -Metal Fatigue
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Hrishi
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« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2014, 06:07:06 pm » |
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Is this really that good? Sure, drawing 3 cards is nice and all but this completely takes you away from Yawg Will late game. I'm not sure I'd give up Will in order to draw 3 cards, when Will can often let you do just that by reusing everything.
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Lyna turned to the figure beside her. "They're gone. What now?"
"As ever," said Urza, "we wait."
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Protoaddict
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« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2014, 08:25:50 pm » |
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Well, if you cut yawgs will you basically cut black in many decks. going down to 2 colors may be better for some game plans like delver which wants a consistent mana base with basics in it, and decks like merfolk that are mono to start with.
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oshkoshhaitsyosh
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« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2014, 09:40:31 pm » |
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Merfolk would run Standstill before playing this card...
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Team Josh Potucek
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ben_berry
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« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2014, 09:57:17 pm » |
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If there are seven cards in the merfolk players 'yard something went wrong.
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brianpk80
2015 Vintage World Champion
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« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2014, 10:01:57 pm » |
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Merfolk would run Standstill before playing this card...
That made my day. |
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"It seems like a normal Monk deck with all the normal Monk cards. And then the clouds divide... something is revealed in the skies."
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Chubby Rain
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« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2014, 10:29:22 pm » |
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Merfolk would run Standstill before playing this card...
Step 1: Aether Vial Step 2: Standstill Step 3: Profit |
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"Why are we making bad decks? I mean, honestly, what is our reason for doing this?"
"Is this a Vintage deck or a Cube deck?" "Is it sad that you have to ask?"
"Is that a draft deck?" "Why do people keep asking that?"
Random conversations...
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Oath of Happy
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« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2014, 09:17:02 am » |
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Is this really that good? Sure, drawing 3 cards is nice and all but this completely takes you away from Yawg Will late game. I'm not sure I'd give up Will in order to draw 3 cards, when Will can often let you do just that by reusing everything.
I played 4cc back in 2005 with 3 Scryings and Yawgs. They worked against each other but it didn't matter, they still both won games and once you draw 3 extra cards, the GY fills back up very quickly. This card is an absolute bomb and is an auto include in any big blue deck not running Confidant. I'll be using anywhere between 1 and 3. |
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serracollector
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« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2014, 11:25:17 am » |
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Wouldnt this be about perfect for rug? Or maybe a more combo/aggro variant using 4 gitaxian probe, 4 manamorphose etc? I mean 4 of these, 4 probe, 4 gush, 4 preordain, bs, and ponder and Acall is a lot of filter and draw and since rug has like zero use for its grave this essentially reads "threshold draw 3 for  " and threshold would not be hard at all to achieve with so many "free" spells and fetches. |
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B/R discussions are not allowed outside of Vintage Issues, and that includes signatures.
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2014, 12:03:20 pm » |
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If you hit this with a Snapcaster Mage, I believe you get to pay it's Delve cost? So, from that perspective, this card seems fine in a list where you want to fill the yard as you dig for cards and then dig again if you haven't hit what you want.
Heck, let's say you ran Oath of Druids and Snapcaster Mage as your target. Because YOLO. You mill one of these, hit it with snappy, Ancestral yourself, rinse and repeat.
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