Treasure Cruise

[serracollector]

Forget graveyard hate I would just startrunning a set of notorious theifs and consecrated sphinx.

[Protoaddict]

It's sorta funny that mono white hate bears is already basically doing everything to hate on this card possible main deck.

It runs cost increasers
It runs mainboard grave hate
It runs Spirit of the Lab

But that deck I think is Tier 2 right now at best and because it's playing a really fair game I am not sure how good a deck that tries to counter TC will actually be. You may in all honesty be better off playing Meddling mage naming TC at the end of the day if that is the issue your trying to deal with. Hell Nevermore may be a better answer because its harder to remove.

[dangerlinto]

Forget graveyard hate I would just startrunning a set of notorious theifs and consecrated sphinx.

You should be doing that any way!  Especially notion thief.  Thief on your opponents activation of Jace is the sweetest treat available

[Chubby Rain]

Forget graveyard hate I would just startrunning a set of notorious theifs and consecrated sphinx.

You should be doing that any way!  Especially notion thief.  Thief on your opponents activation of Jace is the sweetest treat available

Timetwister, Wheel, and Griselbrand

[dangerlinto]

Forget graveyard hate I would just startrunning a set of notorious theifs and consecrated sphinx.

You should be doing that any way!  Especially notion thief.  Thief on your opponents activation of Jace is the sweetest treat available

Timetwister, Wheel, and Griselbrand



Well sure, but those options come up less.  I mean, we all love Toblerone but we only get them once a year at Christmas.    Thief on Jace is the Kit-kat of playing Vintage

[fsecco]

I know we're on the Treasure Cruise topic, but Dig Through Time dodges Thief and Spirit. It's a much better card for Vintage play, me thinks

[gkraigher]

dig through time is playable in vintage, treasure cruise is not. 

go ahead, you can quote me on that. 

[MaximumCDawg]

dig through time is playable in vintage, treasure cruise is not. 

go ahead, you can quote me on that. 

And we shall.

I don't see how you can make such a statement.  People have already tested and found that Treasure Cruise works in Vintage just fine.  How do you define "playable?" 

[serracollector]

Treasure cruise is not only playable its damn good.  After all the comparisons, I would have the say the best is that this card is like Skeletal Scrying on crack.  Oh, and it's blue.

[gkraigher]

i am wrong, this card is playable.  i admit it.  i am wrong.  there, i've said it.  i'm on board with treasure cruise now.  the card fits very well with jeskai ascendancy. 

[MaximumCDawg]

i am wrong, this card is playable.  i admit it.  i am wrong.  there, i've said it.  i'm on board with treasure cruise now. 

Okay, that was fast, nice on--

the card fits very well with jeskai ascendancy. 

Er, what?  I guess this is a discussion for your other thread, but I'm not sure that the existence of a combo deck in modern is really a good reason for you to change your mind!

[Samoht]

Treasure Cruise is playable, in that we can choose to play it. I can't think of many situations where it outshines Dig Through Time however. Being a Sorcery is a huge problem. Though the single U makes its better with Mana Drain's trigger. I still think Dig will have more impact but TC isn't the worst card ever printed either.

[Demagoguery]

Treasure Cruise is playable, in that we can choose to play it. I can't think of many situations where it outshines Dig Through Time however. Being a Sorcery is a huge problem. Though the single U makes its better with Mana Drain's trigger. I still think Dig will have more impact but TC isn't the worst card ever printed either.

I think it's really the fact that Cruise is U as opposed to UU, that makes it an option over Dig. The issue is that there is a lot of ways of restricting your access to coloured mana, and there are a lot of cards that require UU already, which makes Dig a little more awkward. Don't forget that there are also ways of generating plenty of colourless mana, whether it be Sol Ring, Crypt, or off colour Moxen, all of which allows you to potentially cast Cruise without hurting your mana too much if you're looking at something like Drain in hand and have only 3 blue sources.

Heck we still have Standstill, which I get is a very different card, but 1U for a sorcery speed draw 3, isn't a bad deal at all, which is what Cruise is when exiling the same amount of cards as Dig.

[Samoht]

Treasure Cruise is playable, in that we can choose to play it. I can't think of many situations where it outshines Dig Through Time however. Being a Sorcery is a huge problem. Though the single U makes its better with Mana Drain's trigger. I still think Dig will have more impact but TC isn't the worst card ever printed either.

I think it's really the fact that Cruise is U as opposed to UU, that makes it an option over Dig. The issue is that there is a lot of ways of restricting your access to coloured mana, and there are a lot of cards that require UU already, which makes Dig a little more awkward. Don't forget that there are also ways of generating plenty of colourless mana, whether it be Sol Ring, Crypt, or off colour Moxen, all of which allows you to potentially cast Cruise without hurting your mana too much if you're looking at something like Drain in hand and have only 3 blue sources.

Heck we still have Standstill, which I get is a very different card, but 1U for a sorcery speed draw 3, isn't a bad deal at all, which is what Cruise is when exiling the same amount of cards as Dig.

Right, but if I had access to a UU Instand Speed Standstill I'd definitely play that instead of 1U Standstill.

[Demagoguery]

Treasure Cruise is playable, in that we can choose to play it. I can't think of many situations where it outshines Dig Through Time however. Being a Sorcery is a huge problem. Though the single U makes its better with Mana Drain's trigger. I still think Dig will have more impact but TC isn't the worst card ever printed either.

I think it's really the fact that Cruise is U as opposed to UU, that makes it an option over Dig. The issue is that there is a lot of ways of restricting your access to coloured mana, and there are a lot of cards that require UU already, which makes Dig a little more awkward. Don't forget that there are also ways of generating plenty of colourless mana, whether it be Sol Ring, Crypt, or off colour Moxen, all of which allows you to potentially cast Cruise without hurting your mana too much if you're looking at something like Drain in hand and have only 3 blue sources.

Heck we still have Standstill, which I get is a very different card, but 1U for a sorcery speed draw 3, isn't a bad deal at all, which is what Cruise is when exiling the same amount of cards as Dig.

Right, but if I had access to a UU Instand Speed Standstill I'd definitely play that instead of 1U Standstill.

Well hold on, that's not necessarily true, since you only get two cards, even though their quality should be better.

My issue is more that it's UU, and Cruise can just be U, or 1U. Maybe I just have a tendency to play decks that are heavy on UU casting costs, but the reduced casting colour and potential cost does give me reason to consider Cruise. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's better, just that it's a different card with things that are better and worse.

[Samoht]

Treasure Cruise is playable, in that we can choose to play it. I can't think of many situations where it outshines Dig Through Time however. Being a Sorcery is a huge problem. Though the single U makes its better with Mana Drain's trigger. I still think Dig will have more impact but TC isn't the worst card ever printed either.

I think it's really the fact that Cruise is U as opposed to UU, that makes it an option over Dig. The issue is that there is a lot of ways of restricting your access to coloured mana, and there are a lot of cards that require UU already, which makes Dig a little more awkward. Don't forget that there are also ways of generating plenty of colourless mana, whether it be Sol Ring, Crypt, or off colour Moxen, all of which allows you to potentially cast Cruise without hurting your mana too much if you're looking at something like Drain in hand and have only 3 blue sources.

Heck we still have Standstill, which I get is a very different card, but 1U for a sorcery speed draw 3, isn't a bad deal at all, which is what Cruise is when exiling the same amount of cards as Dig.

Right, but if I had access to a UU Instand Speed Standstill I'd definitely play that instead of 1U Standstill.

Well hold on, that's not necessarily true, since you only get two cards, even though their quality should be better.

My issue is more that it's UU, and Cruise can just be U, or 1U. Maybe I just have a tendency to play decks that are heavy on UU casting costs, but the reduced casting colour and potential cost does give me reason to consider Cruise. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's better, just that it's a different card with things that are better and worse.

If I had a card that was U -> Look at Top 7 and pick 2 I'd play 4 before the first Ancestral. Obviously we'd play both, but that much dig potential is absurd.

[Demagoguery]

Treasure Cruise is playable, in that we can choose to play it. I can't think of many situations where it outshines Dig Through Time however. Being a Sorcery is a huge problem. Though the single U makes its better with Mana Drain's trigger. I still think Dig will have more impact but TC isn't the worst card ever printed either.

I think it's really the fact that Cruise is U as opposed to UU, that makes it an option over Dig. The issue is that there is a lot of ways of restricting your access to coloured mana, and there are a lot of cards that require UU already, which makes Dig a little more awkward. Don't forget that there are also ways of generating plenty of colourless mana, whether it be Sol Ring, Crypt, or off colour Moxen, all of which allows you to potentially cast Cruise without hurting your mana too much if you're looking at something like Drain in hand and have only 3 blue sources.

Heck we still have Standstill, which I get is a very different card, but 1U for a sorcery speed draw 3, isn't a bad deal at all, which is what Cruise is when exiling the same amount of cards as Dig.

Right, but if I had access to a UU Instand Speed Standstill I'd definitely play that instead of 1U Standstill.

Well hold on, that's not necessarily true, since you only get two cards, even though their quality should be better.

My issue is more that it's UU, and Cruise can just be U, or 1U. Maybe I just have a tendency to play decks that are heavy on UU casting costs, but the reduced casting colour and potential cost does give me reason to consider Cruise. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's better, just that it's a different card with things that are better and worse.

If I had a card that was U -> Look at Top 7 and pick 2 I'd play 4 before the first Ancestral. Obviously we'd play both, but that much dig potential is absurd.

Well yea, who wouldn't play that broken version of Ancestral? However, it's not U, it's UU, and it does have other stipulations.

[Samoht]

Treasure Cruise is playable, in that we can choose to play it. I can't think of many situations where it outshines Dig Through Time however. Being a Sorcery is a huge problem. Though the single U makes its better with Mana Drain's trigger. I still think Dig will have more impact but TC isn't the worst card ever printed either.

I think it's really the fact that Cruise is U as opposed to UU, that makes it an option over Dig. The issue is that there is a lot of ways of restricting your access to coloured mana, and there are a lot of cards that require UU already, which makes Dig a little more awkward. Don't forget that there are also ways of generating plenty of colourless mana, whether it be Sol Ring, Crypt, or off colour Moxen, all of which allows you to potentially cast Cruise without hurting your mana too much if you're looking at something like Drain in hand and have only 3 blue sources.

Heck we still have Standstill, which I get is a very different card, but 1U for a sorcery speed draw 3, isn't a bad deal at all, which is what Cruise is when exiling the same amount of cards as Dig.

Right, but if I had access to a UU Instand Speed Standstill I'd definitely play that instead of 1U Standstill.

Well hold on, that's not necessarily true, since you only get two cards, even though their quality should be better.

My issue is more that it's UU, and Cruise can just be U, or 1U. Maybe I just have a tendency to play decks that are heavy on UU casting costs, but the reduced casting colour and potential cost does give me reason to consider Cruise. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's better, just that it's a different card with things that are better and worse.

If I had a card that was U -> Look at Top 7 and pick 2 I'd play 4 before the first Ancestral. Obviously we'd play both, but that much dig potential is absurd.

Well yea, who wouldn't play that broken version of Ancestral? However, it's not U, it's UU, and it does have other stipulations.

I mean Standstill isn't U either right? We're making so many shifting comparisons we're losing the forest as we see trees.

If there was a card that functioned at Instant speed it has to be weighted higher than a Sorcery that does the same thing. In fact, I'd be willing to pay more in total CMC or colored requirements for instant speed cards. In this case, we are dealing with 6UU (Delve) for check top 7 choose 2 (doesn't actually draw so dodges Notion Theif, Spirit of the Labyrinth, and Chains of Mephistopheles) and end up +1 card with both cards we get being of the highest quality in comparison to 7U (Delve) Draw 3 and up up +2 with no filtering.

The lack of a second U on TC is almost entirely taken away by its Sorcery speed. Having to play it on my turn ties up my resources. While there will be instances that we can afford to leave up UU or even merely U to cast it, there is a definite trade off giving our opponent a turn with one less U source to fight their sorceries. Dig never really gives that window. We will almost exclusively be casting this in the end step or in response to their action. As such, the benefit gained is very strong. Moreover, the Delve mechanic means that we don't really want to cast multiple copies of either card in game, or if we do we want it to be a really long game. In both instances, we're playing decks that don't do much on their turn and are searching for a direct answer or threat when casting the card. Again, Dig is better in both cases. Passing the turn completely devoid of the ability to respond aside from pitch counters is a huge issue. Let's not just forget it because we shave a U.

[Protoaddict]

I think the decks that really give the nod to TC over dig are decks that are running blue and a mana denial theme via strip, wastes, and possibly null rod or Cotv. My reasoning there is because not only do they fill the yard with their sac lands very quickly, they also want to have the absolute lowest cost possible on their cards because they are trading lands.

In legacy this is what is giving TC the big push over Dig in delver, simply because the deck is so redundant that the selection from dig is mitigated and there is no fast mana. That does not really apply in vintage where we have all the things.

[JarofFortune]

In legacy this is what is giving TC the big push over Dig in delver, simply because the deck is so redundant that the selection from dig is mitigated and there is no fast mana. That does not really apply in vintage where we have all the things.

Cruise does apply to Vintage, but really just in Delver. Delver would run dig instead were it not for the fact that it is a very mana-light deck. The people saying Dig is better as a blanket statement for the whole format are wrong because being only one mana is relevant for Delver decks and their variants, and well worth the cost of being a sorcery.

[vaughnbros]

In legacy this is what is giving TC the big push over Dig in delver, simply because the deck is so redundant that the selection from dig is mitigated and there is no fast mana. That does not really apply in vintage where we have all the things.

Cruise does apply to Vintage, but really just in Delver. Delver would run dig instead were it not for the fact that it is a very mana-light deck. The people saying Dig is better as a blanket statement for the whole format are wrong because being only one mana is relevant for Delver decks and their variants, and well worth the cost of being a sorcery.

I'm not sure this is true.  Even a mana tight deck like delver can get 2 mana, especially by the time they have 7 cards in their graveyard.  It's not just sorcery vs instant.  It's seeing 7 cards vs seeing 3.

[Protoaddict]

But delver is so redundant that selection often goes to the wayside for pure draw. The more redundant a list is the more likely drawing 3 is going to be better than 2 of 7.

My question for delver is does it really want this over gush. The difference between 2 mana and a yard, 1 mana and a yard, and 0 mana and no yard is huge, plus delver relies on gush a lot of the time to get to 3 mana off 2 lands and is mostly the reason the list is so land light. The cards breed 2 completely different lists and I think that if you run cruse or dig your probably looking at these decks slightly upping their land count to compensate.

[Samoht]

But delver is so redundant that selection often goes to the wayside for pure draw. The more redundant a list is the more likely drawing 3 is going to be better than 2 of 7.

My question for delver is does it really want this over gush. The difference between 2 mana and a yard, 1 mana and a yard, and 0 mana and no yard is huge, plus delver relies on gush a lot of the time to get to 3 mana off 2 lands and is mostly the reason the list is so land light. The cards breed 2 completely different lists and I think that if you run cruse or dig your probably looking at these decks slightly upping their land count to compensate.

Upping that land count makes their blue match up a lot harder though.

[Protoaddict]

And not upping it probably makes TC and DIG unplayable over gush, which was my point.

Now keep in mind by upping it, really we are talking about 1-2 lands here, which if your running cruise, may compensate for itself since your not temping yourself out. Maybe at that point the free spell count goes up as well and we see more misdirection as well.

All I am saying is i think players who just hotswap these for gush are not going to get the intended effect, you need to think about your deck a little more from the ground up at that point.

[JarofFortune]

No, treasure cruise will not replace Gush in delver. Nothing can. Treasure cruise can, however, complement Gush. It is especially effective against Control and other Gush decks.

[Samoht]

No, treasure cruise will not replace Gush in delver. Nothing can. Treasure cruise can, however, complement Gush. It is especially effective against Control and other Gush decks.

Yeah I disagree. I think getting your Cruise Drain'ed has to be the biggest fear for a Delver deck.

[zeus-online]

.

[Samoht]

No, treasure cruise will not replace Gush in delver. Nothing can. Treasure cruise can, however, complement Gush. It is especially effective against Control and other Gush decks.

Yeah I disagree. I think getting your Cruise Drain'ed has to be the biggest fear for a Delver deck.

Wait, i agree that it won't replace gush. I think this card will see play in moderate amounts.

However, it getting drained isn't really that much worse than getting gush drained. 5 mana vs. 8 mana, i would think the 5 mana are enough to do pretty much whatever you want.

Gush is an Instant and has 0 inherent mana cost. Cruise is MUCH harder to defend.

[zeus-online]

.

[JarofFortune]

Gush is an Instant and has 0 inherent mana cost. Cruise is MUCH harder to defend.

That is true. But i don't think Mana drain is a reason to not play this card, since drain is generally not played in high numbers these days.

Not to mention that Gush is best used as a sorcery. End of turn Gush is usually suboptimal.