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Author Topic: Magic Online Power Nine Owners  (Read 63257 times)
dangerlinto
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« Reply #150 on: December 05, 2014, 01:10:13 pm »

I haven't looked into it at all yet, but has the Holiday Vintage Festival influenced the price of Bazaars? In the initial announcement the non-powered prize requirement was just that you couldn't have any Power 9 without mentioning Bazaar, Workshop, Imperial Seal etc. like Eternal Weekend did.


Quicker minds prevailed almost a month ago (Adrian Becker pointed it out here: http://forums.classicquarter.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=1856)  and Bazaar was added to the list of cards that you couldn't use to win with the "non-powered" requirement soon after ( http://magic.wizards.com/en/MTGO/articles/archive/magic-online-holiday-festival-2014-11-12 )
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vaughnbros
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« Reply #151 on: December 05, 2014, 05:05:27 pm »

The only card in Dredge that is more than 20 Tix is Undiscovered Paradise, which is not in all versions of Dredge, and should dip a bit with the upcoming MVW flashback queues.

Black lotus, ancestral recall, and Griselbrand are pretty standard dredge cards and are well over 20 tix.  Dredge on MTGO is a ton more expensive than it is real life 10 proxy.
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tribet
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« Reply #152 on: December 05, 2014, 05:07:27 pm »

I joined a week ago as I was working away from home in a shit hole with only 1 pub and nothing else. Lucky the pub had wifi so I jumped in.
I'm with two other friends sharing an account. I bought staples for Shops to complete their collection (they already had Wasteland luckily). I only spent $150 so I think it is honest for the amount of games I jammed in just in 1 week living away.

Sharing the account has been alright so far and we haven't clashed very often. What we did a little is that we skyped each other (them looking at my screen) so that they could run me through MTGO as I was playing. It is fun experience & different. I enjoyed that, playing while your mate watch & explain you, discussing about best play, different lines, whining how crap is the software, how confusing are the stacks...

So yeah, the software & play experience is quite horrible and there is no doubt about this. And I think there are a lot of bugs and overall too many things are not natural or intuitive.

Last, the mercantile aspect is killing it for me. Buying & trading digital cards is just a pain in the ass and not enjoyable. I can't believe items can be out of stock, etc... I've been looking for 4th cheap FTV Tangle wire (which are a exuberant $15!) for a week now without success. It is just plain ridiculous as I have no interest in getting involved in this and hunting such items during my spare time.

So overall, I needed my fix of Vintage, brewing & testing and this software unfortunately is the only alternative. It's very convenient for jamming a little game before dinner, etc... I'll see how much I last, because I feel my 2 other mates are never logged in. They must have grown tired maybe or disenchanted a little.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 05:13:19 pm by tribet » Logged
Chubby Rain
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« Reply #153 on: December 05, 2014, 05:38:47 pm »

The only card in Dredge that is more than 20 Tix is Undiscovered Paradise, which is not in all versions of Dredge, and should dip a bit with the upcoming MVW flashback queues.

Black lotus, ancestral recall, and Griselbrand are pretty standard dredge cards and are well over 20 tix.  Dredge on MTGO is a ton more expensive than it is real life 10 proxy.

I should have added "in the list above".

I joined a week ago as I was working away from home in a shit hole with only 1 pub and nothing else. Lucky the pub had wifi so I jumped in.
I'm with two other friends sharing an account. I bought staples for Shops to complete their collection (they already had Wasteland luckily). I only spent $150 so I think it is honest for the amount of games I jammed in just in 1 week living away.

Sharing the account has been alright so far and we haven't clashed very often. What we did a little is that we skyped each other (them looking at my screen) so that they could run me through MTGO as I was playing. It is fun experience & different. I enjoyed that, playing while your mate watch & explain you, discussing about best play, different lines, whining how crap is the software, how confusing are the stacks...

So yeah, the software & play experience is quite horrible and there is no doubt about this. And I think there are a lot of bugs and overall too many things are not natural or intuitive.

Last, the mercantile aspect is killing it for me. Buying & trading digital cards is just a pain in the ass and not enjoyable. I can't believe items can be out of stock, etc... I've been looking for 4th cheap FTV Tangle wire (which are a exuberant $15!) for a week now without success. It is just plain ridiculous as I have no interest in getting involved in this and hunting such items during my spare time.

So overall, I needed my fix of Vintage, brewing & testing and this software unfortunately is the only alternative. It's very convenient for jamming a little game before dinner, etc... I'll see how much I last, because I feel my 2 other mates are never logged in. They must have grown tired maybe or disenchanted a little.

You get used to the interface after a while but it's far from ideal. And most of the cards are quite easy to get. The difficult ones are from the special sets like FtV and Commander because of the limited casual scene. I've been waiting a long time to get Containment Priests at 25-30 tickets.
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« Reply #154 on: December 05, 2014, 06:44:49 pm »

I haven't looked into it at all yet, but has the Holiday Vintage Festival influenced the price of Bazaars? In the initial announcement the non-powered prize requirement was just that you couldn't have any Power 9 without mentioning Bazaar, Workshop, Imperial Seal etc. like Eternal Weekend did.
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Coopes
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« Reply #155 on: December 05, 2014, 06:56:10 pm »

I haven't looked into it at all yet, but has the Holiday Vintage Festival influenced the price of Bazaars? In the initial announcement the non-powered prize requirement was just that you couldn't have any Power 9 without mentioning Bazaar, Workshop, Imperial Seal etc. like Eternal Weekend did.


Pretty sure they changed it so Bazaar is off that list and excludes you from unpowered prizes.
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Smmenen
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« Reply #156 on: December 05, 2014, 08:13:10 pm »

is there a thread somewhere that we can discuss about finding testing partners for MTGO?  I'm looking for someone who has Dredge and is good with it.  Message me if you are.
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dangerlinto
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« Reply #157 on: December 06, 2014, 12:43:19 pm »

I haven't looked into it at all yet, but has the Holiday Vintage Festival influenced the price of Bazaars? In the initial announcement the non-powered prize requirement was just that you couldn't have any Power 9 without mentioning Bazaar, Workshop, Imperial Seal etc. like Eternal Weekend did.

Pretty sure they changed it so Bazaar is off that list and excludes you from unpowered prizes.

Do I have to link it again... look up.  It is on the list (look at the update in the middle of the WoTC link).  Doesn't mean people won't play dredge (because it's pretty cheap) but thankfully it won't be a dredgefest.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 02:14:29 pm by dangerlinto » Logged
MTGFan
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« Reply #158 on: December 06, 2014, 02:40:45 pm »

I have no personal experience with Celeron processors, but if you can find an i5 on sale for a decent price (also, get min of 4 GB RAM), I'd go with that.

4GB RAM recommended just to play a simple card game that moves images around on a screen. That's just sad.

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enderfall
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« Reply #159 on: December 06, 2014, 03:15:26 pm »

I have no personal experience with Celeron processors, but if you can find an i5 on sale for a decent price (also, get min of 4 GB RAM), I'd go with that.

4GB RAM recommended just to play a simple card game that moves images around on a screen. That's just sad.



Agreed, but to be fair, it's hard to buy a new computer these days with anything less than 4 GB RAM.
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The Atog Lord
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« Reply #160 on: December 06, 2014, 04:06:06 pm »

All of the actual processing appears to take place server-side, meaning that MODO doesn't really use your machine for very much. That said, poorly written code can make even the most trivial task devour an unbounded amount of memory. In fact, MODO's memory leaks do just that.
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« Reply #161 on: December 06, 2014, 10:06:58 pm »

All of the actual processing appears to take place server-side, meaning that MODO doesn't really use your machine for very much. That said, poorly written code can make even the most trivial task devour an unbounded amount of memory. In fact, MODO's memory leaks do just that.

That's the point - there's no need for complex, memory-hogging software on the client side because all of the complex processing of rules is done server-side.

The fact that they can't fit a simple card-pixmap-moving/network-messaging software (which is all that the client needs to be) in a much smaller memory footprint means that their programmers are just bad or forced to adhere to bad directives by idiotic management.

Cockatrice essentially does what MODO needs to do, client-wise, in 1/10th of the memory footprint.

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bactgudz
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« Reply #162 on: December 07, 2014, 04:26:32 am »

All of the actual processing appears to take place server-side, meaning that MODO doesn't really use your machine for very much. That said, poorly written code can make even the most trivial task devour an unbounded amount of memory. In fact, MODO's memory leaks do just that.

That's the point - there's no need for complex, memory-hogging software on the client side because all of the complex processing of rules is done server-side.

The fact that they can't fit a simple card-pixmap-moving/network-messaging software (which is all that the client needs to be) in a much smaller memory footprint means that their programmers are just bad or forced to adhere to bad directives by idiotic management.

Cockatrice essentially does what MODO needs to do, client-wise, in 1/10th of the memory footprint.



I don't blame the programmers themselves as much as the management.  I mean who the heck decided to use WPF as the environment.  Microsoft itself states WPF "is not intended for 'twitch' games" and "was just not designed with the types of applications people want today in mind" and "will not be further supported with non-maintenance updates".  Asking them to efficiently code the client in WPF is an insurmountable task.
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Smmenen
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« Reply #163 on: December 08, 2014, 05:16:37 pm »

The prices are so low right now, I don't see how they can get much lower.

I strongly encourage people to consider buying in now.   The future of Vintage, at some point, will be largely online.  It may not be in the next couple of years, but in coming decades, I believe it will be. 
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Chubby Rain
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« Reply #164 on: December 08, 2014, 05:20:55 pm »

The prices are so low right now, I don't see how they can get much lower.

I strongly encourage people to consider buying in now.   The future of Vintage, at some point, will be largely online.  It may not be in the next couple of years, but in coming decades, I believe it will be. 

Agreed. I picked up many of the VMA cards I was missing over the weekend including Shops and Bazaars.
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tribet
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« Reply #165 on: December 09, 2014, 12:54:15 am »

Black Lotus - 135

Ancestral Recall - 46

Time Walk - 37

Mox Sapphire - 58

Mox Jet - 36

Mox Ruby - 33

Mox Pearl - 26

Mox Emerald -26

Time Twister - 7

Even 10% cheaper here on cardhoarder with a full P9 for US$364
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Coopes
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« Reply #166 on: December 09, 2014, 02:39:16 am »

It's bc cardbot n crew finally kicked their propped up prices down. Prices are low enough for me to recommend people to buy in if you are planning to play, from an investment standpoint, obviously a bad place to be.

Only lotus and sapphire now over 50  Wink
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tribet
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« Reply #167 on: December 09, 2014, 03:41:18 am »

I guess I should have said "cheaper" because I still don't think any of this affordable, reasonable nor value for money.
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #168 on: December 09, 2014, 07:35:17 am »

I guess I should have said "cheaper" because I still don't think any of this affordable, reasonable nor value for money.

Agreed.  No matter how "cheap" it gets, you're still essentially buying license fees for a video game.
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bactgudz
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« Reply #169 on: December 09, 2014, 07:44:45 am »

MTGO vintage has been chronicles'd.  There is no confidence in the price of power or other staples so most of it is going to continue to sit in bots.
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jcb193
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« Reply #170 on: December 09, 2014, 09:51:38 am »

Just curious how MTGO vintage prices can be crashing right before the biggest MTGO vintage tournament.  I still love MTGO though. 
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dangerlinto
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« Reply #171 on: December 09, 2014, 10:11:40 am »

Just curious how MTGO vintage prices can be crashing right before the biggest MTGO vintage tournament.  I still love MTGO though. 

The simple version of the not-so-simple explanation is that once the cartel and bot syndicate realizes that holding onto hundreds or thousands of the product isn't going to gain them more money, the race to sell the cards begins and the price plummets.  This usually occurs when more product (in this case, VMA) is generated at the store.
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #172 on: December 09, 2014, 10:50:08 am »

MTGO vintage has been chronicles'd.  There is no confidence in the price of power or other staples so most of it is going to continue to sit in bots.

Ironically, the more this is true, the more likely I am to actually buy in to Vintage.  If we start talking about being able to spend $100.00 or so and have all of the expensive staples for the format to build around, then I start to get interested.  That's the turning point where I feel like I might get value out of the purchase over a reasonable period of time. 
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enderfall
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« Reply #173 on: December 09, 2014, 11:31:11 am »

MTGO vintage has been chronicles'd.  There is no confidence in the price of power or other staples so most of it is going to continue to sit in bots.

Ironically, the more this is true, the more likely I am to actually buy in to Vintage.  If we start talking about being able to spend $100.00 or so and have all of the expensive staples for the format to build around, then I start to get interested.  That's the turning point where I feel like I might get value out of the purchase over a reasonable period of time.  

Prices will never get that low. Legacy play will keep duals and forces and everything else afloat, no matter how "bad" Vintage gets. You can already get Will, Vamp, Demonic, and other staples for dirt cheap... it's the Legacy-legal stuff that's going to be expensive.

Just curious how MTGO vintage prices can be crashing right before the biggest MTGO vintage tournament.  I still love MTGO though. 

There has been a large influx of VMA drafts in the past week as VMA packs were the prizes for the supremely popular Cube that ran during Thanksgiving break.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 11:38:29 am by enderfall » Logged
jcb193
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« Reply #174 on: December 09, 2014, 12:23:02 pm »

I thought they weren't printing anymore VMA?
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enderfall
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« Reply #175 on: December 09, 2014, 01:18:09 pm »

I thought they weren't printing anymore VMA?

It's a "flashback" draft, which they periodically run throughout the year for different formats for a one week limited time event. Sometimes it's Mirage block, sometimes it's Tempest block, or Masques's, etc. The past year (prior to VMA) their "flagship" format was MMA. It appears VMA has replaced MMA... that is until MMA2 is finally out.

So while VMA is no longer "in print", they are still giving out VMA as prizes from time to time (especially for Cube) and allowing drafts to "open" more product throughout the year.
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enderfall
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« Reply #176 on: December 09, 2014, 01:21:28 pm »

Here are the details of the short term drafting for Cube and VMA:

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/events-schedule-2014-08-27#legacycubeswiss
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tribet
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« Reply #177 on: December 09, 2014, 06:03:50 pm »

Prices will never get that low. Legacy play will keep duals and forces and everything else afloat, no matter how "bad" Vintage gets. You can already get Will, Vamp, Demonic, and other staples for dirt cheap... it's the Legacy-legal stuff that's going to be expensive.

Exactly correct, don't let yourself fooled by price of P9 on MODO. It is very misleading and they'll burn you elsewhere as they shift the digital scarcity on other cards. Legacy staples on MODO are basically your new P9 (FOW $30, Scalding Tarn $35, Wasteland $100,...)

Also, any staples from Masques & Mirage blocks are currently a big problem:
- Undiscovered Paradise $35
- Unmask $25
- Daze $30
- Rishadan Port $130
- LED $30
- Doomsday $20
- ...

So think twice before getting lured by the $4 digital Bazaar of Baghdad or $7 Mishra's Workshop. I think it is just a bait to trap Vintage players into MODO!
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 06:11:15 pm by tribet » Logged
Chubby Rain
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« Reply #178 on: December 09, 2014, 06:16:55 pm »

Prices will never get that low. Legacy play will keep duals and forces and everything else afloat, no matter how "bad" Vintage gets. You can already get Will, Vamp, Demonic, and other staples for dirt cheap... it's the Legacy-legal stuff that's going to be expensive.

Exactly correct, don't let yourself fooled by price of P9 on MODO. It is very misleading and they'll burn you elsewhere as they shift the digital scarcity on other cards. Legacy staples on MODO are basically your new P9 (FOW $30, Scalding Tarn $35, Wasteland $100,...)

Also, any staples from Masques & Mirage blocks are currently a big problem:
- Undiscovered Paradise $35
- Unmask $25
- Daze $30
- Rishadan Port $130
- LED $30
- Doomsday $20
- ...

So think twice before getting lured by the $4 digital Bazaar of Baghdad or $7 Mishra's Workshop. I think it is just a bait to trap Vintage players into MODO!

Wizards does not control the secondary market. The reason the cards from MM, Tempest, etc. are so expensive is that those formats aren't fun to draft. Not much drafting, not many packs being opened, scarcity of product. On the other hand, VMA was one of the funniest draft formats every created and tons of packs were opened - they are even recreating it for Worlds. It's not a conspiracy. It's just simple supply and demand.
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tribet
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« Reply #179 on: December 09, 2014, 07:35:52 pm »

It's not a conspiracy. It's just simple supply and demand.
... and simple scarcity on digital products. Great oxymoron by the way!

This whole thread is about "Digital P9 owners" so I'm just warning wanabe MTGO Vintage players. The first cards they will probably look at are indeed P9, Bazaar, Shop... thinking that $400bucks may actually be fair and that now, they have no more excuse not to make the transition to digital Vintage.

My mates already owned the P9, Waste, Dual, FOW... and I still managed to forked in $200 in just 10 days to get basic staples to complete Shop & Standstill.

Wizards does not control the secondary market.
They actually do because they can reprint anything, anytimes, in any sets. Pretending they are not aware of it or that they are not trying to influence it is naive. They do this all the time for Modern staples and online the "reserve" list doesn't seem to apply anyways. If they don't do it straight away it is because they want to leave some doors open for "special juicy products" such as From the Vault which sell very well as they always make sure to trickle in some high demand products...
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 07:56:13 pm by tribet » Logged
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