Jeskai Ascendancy

[tito del monte]

Liking the inclusion of Pyromancers in Rich's Legacy list - and I'm sure that if the deck is Vintage viable, it plays them, too. It kind of combines the ability to go wide, like Yuuya's Standard Jeskai-tokens list, with the ability of Wrapter's Modern list to go big with a Fatestitcher or Conclave - all whilst being primarily a solid UWR control deck (and not a four-colour pile). Great stuff!

On a separate but related note, watching the World Championship has been awesome entertainment and really inspiring. Some great players playing some beautifully constructed decks and I for one am happy to learning from them! The coverage has been excellent so far, too.

Quick question for Rich: Obviously Wrapter's Modern list went for Dig over Cruise - do you think that's plain wrong? Perhaps a function of having worse cantrips available in Modern to fuel the delve cards? Did you consider it for your Legacy port?

Secondly: How important is the Fatesticher/Conclave element to the deck? Do you think a UWR Pyromancer deck playing Ascendancy for Value can be good enough - or more or less viable in Vintage for example, where grave hate is a thing?

Cheers - and sweet deck! Look forward to running it soon

[serracollector]

Heh and Sisters of the Flame is forgotten. Has anyone tried this with a simple pinger like Fireslinger or Grim Lavamancer?

[Chubby Rain]

Heh and Sisters of the Flame is forgotten. Has anyone tried this with a simple pinger like Fireslinger or Grim Lavamancer?

What does a pinger really accomplish?

[The Atog Lord]

Thanks! I suspect cruise is better in Legacy since it costs less, and Brainstorm and Ponder enable better card selection. That said, I will probably try out a Dig or two.

[MaximumCDawg]

Heh and Sisters of the Flame is forgotten. Has anyone tried this with a simple pinger like Fireslinger or Grim Lavamancer?

What does a pinger really accomplish?

I guess the idea is that a pinger hits for one each time you cast a card and then gets big for a final swing, meaning you only have to go halfway to "storm out." Alternatively, a pinger can blast the way clear for your attack by machine-gunning the enemy away.  If you were going that route, I'd only really look at Staticaster, who has some splash utility against storm and pyromancer and is basically 3 mana for 1 damage in a pinch, or Zhur-Taa Druid, which helps you ramp.

[Chubby Rain]

Heh and Sisters of the Flame is forgotten. Has anyone tried this with a simple pinger like Fireslinger or Grim Lavamancer?

What does a pinger really accomplish?

I guess the idea is that a pinger hits for one each time you cast a card and then gets big for a final swing, meaning you only have to go halfway to "storm out." Alternatively, a pinger can blast the way clear for your attack by machine-gunning the enemy away.  If you were going that route, I'd only really look at Staticaster, who has some splash utility against storm and pyromancer and is basically 3 mana for 1 damage in a pinch, or Zhur-Taa Druid, which helps you ramp.

I mean, you can just tap their creatures with Fatestitcher. I just don't see how including a pinger makes the deck more viable.

Fatespiner

[MaximumCDawg]

I just don't see how including a pinger makes the deck more viable.
Fatespiner

I think the proper phrase is "less un-viable" at the moment, perhaps, but otherwise I agree.

[gkraigher]

the best pinger is razorfin hunter, and i could maybe see it being a 1-2 of in the sideboard for legacy. 

[MaximumCDawg]

the best pinger is razorfin hunter

I take issue with that.  Sure, he's the cheapest unconditional Prodigal Sorcerer, but there are about half a dozen pingers I'd suggest are better than him in those colors.

[Chubby Rain]

I just don't see how including a pinger makes the deck more viable.
Fatespiner

I think the proper phrase is "less un-viable" at the moment, perhaps, but otherwise I agree.

Just a matter of time and testing...

[thecrav]

I think something lost with the fatestitcher version is that mana dorks

The only good mana dork is Deathrite Shaman, who isn't even viable for perpetuating the deck. .

Seems at least okay given that you're going to discard a lot of cards, probably going for lands first.

[brianpk80]

This deck makes me really glad Wizards gave us some really busted cards in Khans of Tarkir.  Imagine how dreadful things would have been with Theros II. 

[vaughnbros]

This deck makes me really glad Wizards gave us some really busted cards in Khans of Tarkir.  Imagine how dreadful things would have been with Theros II. 

They need to print bad sets so you appreciate the good ones.

[rcwraspy]

Heh and Sisters of the Flame is forgotten. Has anyone tried this with a simple pinger like Fireslinger or Grim Lavamancer?

What does a pinger really accomplish?

I guess the idea is that a pinger hits for one each time you cast a card and then gets big for a final swing, meaning you only have to go halfway to "storm out." Alternatively, a pinger can blast the way clear for your attack by machine-gunning the enemy away.  If you were going that route, I'd only really look at Staticaster, who has some splash utility against storm and pyromancer and is basically 3 mana for 1 damage in a pinch, or Zhur-Taa Druid, which helps you ramp.

If you're really looking for a "pinger," Spikeshot Elder may just be the best choice.

[Chubby Rain]

Ascendancy Combo is now 4-0 at the Team Serious tourney. #RichShaysFault

[msg67183]

Ascendancy Combo is now 4-0 at the Team Serious tourney. #RichShaysFault

Matthew Gottshall Likes This.

[MaximumCDawg]

The long awaited Fifth Pillar of the Format.  All hail our new Jeskai overlords.

Seriously though, what's the list?  Is he running something like the Fatesticher version you have?

[enderfall]

The long awaited Fifth Pillar of the Format.  All hail our new Jeskai overlords.

Seriously though, what's the list?  Is he running something like the Fatesticher version you have?

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=46978.msg655461#msg655461

[Chubby Rain]

The long awaited Fifth Pillar of the Format.  All hail our new Jeskai overlords.

Seriously though, what's the list?  Is he running something like the Fatesticher version you have?

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=46978.msg655461#msg655461

Yeah, I was really tired when I posted this last night. The main points I was trying to make were:

A) The deck has a lot of similar strengths when compared to URx Delver. It has the same draw engine and the ability to win with Young Pyromancer, a pretty resilient threat when played correctly.
B) The inclusion of the combo provides an extra dimension. Ascendancy by itself functions in a way similar to Dack against decks that aren't Shops - it helps fuel Treasure Cruise while providing card selection. The combo allows you to win the game instantly, which is something Delver can struggle with if it gets behind on board. It also helps against Oath game 1 as you can wait and win in one turn.

[thecrav]

The long awaited Fifth Pillar of the Format.  All hail our new Jeskai overlords.

Seriously though, what's the list?  Is he running something like the Fatesticher version you have?

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=46978.msg655461#msg655461

I played this approximately this deck* about a dozen times on MTGO this weekend and while I don't know if it's good, it's a ton of fun. As someone said above me, it's basically a UR deck that also plays the combo. I had more than one player message me confused about playing the card not long before they conceded games.

*"fixed" the fetchlands, tossed together a sideboard because I didn't have some of it

[serracollector]

I was mainly thinking of Grim Lavamancer as the pinger of choice since you should be able to constantly feed him and have the mana to use him essentially making him a one mana tendrils.

[Chubby Rain]

I was mainly thinking of Grim Lavamancer as the pinger of choice since you should be able to constantly feed him and have the mana to use him essentially making him a one mana tendrils.

Grim Lavamancer might be a good value creature against the UR decks - the only concern I have is trying to support him and Delve without and active Ascendancy.

[gkraigher]

Not to take anything away from the success this deck seems to be having, but isn't this one of the best candidates for a competitive non-powered deck in Vintage?  

You could play chrome mox and cast it without imprinting to keep the chain going.  

[fsecco]

Anyone thought about Anger to give Pyro tokens haste? Could be like a Time Walk in this deck. Or is it too cute?

[thecrav]

Not to take anything away from the success this deck seems to be having, but isn't this one of the best candidates for a competitive non-powered deck in Vintage?  

You could play chrome mox and cast it without imprinting to keep the chain going.  

Might be a good choice. My concern would be that without power, you're not planning to get the combo online until turn 3 at the absolute earliest.

[ben_berry]

Energy Tap'ing a Fatesticher only produces colorless
You could run the red rituals and Manamorphose but I'd just plan on keeping the lid on things till turn 4.

[thecrav]

Energy Tap'ing a Fatesticher only produces colorless

If that's your plan, Springleaf Drum is probably a better option.

[thecrav]

Anyone thought about Anger to give Pyro tokens haste? Could be like a Time Walk in this deck. Or is it too cute?

When I saw the first drafts of this deck both in legacy and in vintage, my first thought was "how do I give my tokens haste so I can just kill them now?" Anger is definitely the best answer to that question. It helps you win around targeted removal like swords to plowshares and abrupt decay. While Fatestitcher allows you to tap down their blocker(s), Angering up some pyromancer tokens allows you to let one or two tokens get blocked while the others end the game.

I really like anger in this deck. I'm just not 100% sure what comes out. I think the first possibility is one of the Fatestitchers. Sure you don't have the full on combo but does that matter when a single turns' tokens can swing for lethal?

I was mainly thinking of Grim Lavamancer as the pinger of choice since you should be able to constantly feed him and have the mana to use him essentially making him a one mana tendrils.

In the thinking I've done about this deck, I think the biggest problem it'll run into is sideboard games. From both sides.

Most decks don't have a lot of action against a deck like Ascendancy so they're likely to bring in the things that are just pretty good. The most obvious of these is grave hate. I don't like Lavamancer because, in addition to the non-bo with delve that's already been pointed out, he makes the deck even more susceptible to an opponent's hate, especially in the form of total yard hosers such as Leyline of the Void.

[fsecco]

Anyone thought about Anger to give Pyro tokens haste? Could be like a Time Walk in this deck. Or is it too cute?

When I saw the first drafts of this deck both in legacy and in vintage, my first thought was "how do I give my tokens haste so I can just kill them now?" Anger is definitely the best answer to that question. It helps you win around targeted removal like swords to plowshares and abrupt decay. While Fatestitcher allows you to tap down their blocker(s), Angering up some pyromancer tokens allows you to let one or two tokens get blocked while the others end the game.

I really like anger in this deck. I'm just not 100% sure what comes out. I think the first possibility is one of the Fatestitchers. Sure you don't have the full on combo but does that matter when a single turns' tokens can swing for lethal?

I thought about Time Walk. I mean, it basically does the same thing, but for free. The only problem is that Walk is much better if you're not combo'ing, but just winning with Pyromancer like you would in a normal Delver deck, and I like to have that option.

The other options are the 3rd Fatestitcher (although I like having 3) and maybe 1 bolt?

EDIT: the other problem is that Anger is also vulnerable to graveyard hate, so maybe it comes out game 2?

[youhavenogame]

Heh and Sisters of the Flame is forgotten. Has anyone tried this with a simple pinger like Fireslinger or Grim Lavamancer?

What does a pinger really accomplish?

I guess the idea is that a pinger hits for one each time you cast a card and then gets big for a final swing, meaning you only have to go halfway to "storm out." Alternatively, a pinger can blast the way clear for your attack by machine-gunning the enemy away.  If you were going that route, I'd only really look at Staticaster, who has some splash utility against storm and pyromancer and is basically 3 mana for 1 damage in a pinch, or Zhur-Taa Druid, which helps you ramp.

If you're really looking for a "pinger," Spikeshot Elder may just be the best choice.

What about [url]Vithian Stinger][url][url]Vithian Stingerhttp://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fgatherer.wizards.com%2FHandlers%2FImage.ashx%253Fmultiverseid%253D368548%2526type%253Dcard&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fgatherer.wizards.com%2FPages%2FCard%2FDetails.aspx%3Fmultiverseid%3D368548&h=310&w=223&tbnid=tByI_19LNplUMM%3A&zoom=1&docid=9kSqX_vMJNuCDM&ei=E0aHVP2rOsH1OLPigRg&tbm=isch&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=2177&page=1&start=0&ndsp=31&ved=0CHMQrQMwGg[/url][/url]?