[C14] - Containment Priest

[hashswag]

If I could suggest one thing to encourage more creativity in Vintage, it's to make sure that all non-blue colours have decent targeted removal for both artifacts and enchantments. The power of shops and Oath really preclude playing a colour combination without both of these things. IIRC, neither red or black have decent enchantment removal and black has no artifact removal (besides stuff like EE). It's so frustrating to have an idea for an idea for a UB deck or a Grixis deck (that isn't suicide vault+key), but then have to give up on it because you can't interact with any non-creature permanents.

[tribet]

And black has no artifact removal (besides stuff like EE)

This in cunjunction with Bitterblossom could be a start for MonoB against MUD. Deathrite, Snuff Out, Dismember, Emissary of Despair, ... are not horrible in the matchup... HexMage first strike and good to remove Tangle Wire & Smokestaks counters

Then ok, since if play Faeries, you may as well add blue!

It's so frustrating to have an idea for an idea for a UB deck or a Grixis deck (that isn't suicide vault+key), but then have to give up on it because you can't interact with any non-creature permanents.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean? Echoing Truth, EE, Chain of Vapour, Repeal, the Abyss, ...

I think colour pie is important, if not everybody will play MonoBlue or MUD. We saw what happened with Phyrexian Mana and more particularly with Misstep in Legacy.

Black has 1 mana cost discards and that is one of the most underplayed broken mechanics from Vintage.

[hashswag]

I mean immediate (sorcery/instant) targeted removal, particularly given how important reacting to things at instant speed (or at least that same turn) is in vintage. Black has effects they can drop to deal with things a turn later like Gate to Phyrexia, but it's not much use when dealing with vault+key or Lodestone+Sphere or something. Bounce cards like Echoing Truth, Chain of Vapour and Repeal are more stop gaps than anything, since you have to sacrifice significant card advantage just to delay that permanent from coming down for another turn. Outside of EE and slow effects like Gate, black can really only deal with non-creature threats by countering them to begin with. Given how packed with counters Vintage is, you'd basically have to be a monoblue deck (with a black splash for tutors and discard) to have any hope of dealing with the multitude of bombs vintage decks can play.

I'm all for keeping the colour pie, but I really think that every colour (except blue) should have a reasonably-costed, instant speed way to remove Creatures, Enchantments and Artifacts. I feel like the colour pie should be about what effects a colour can proactively use, rather than what dangerous strategies they are capable of interacting with (again, other than blue).

[nedleeds]

If you want the poster child for lazy design proceed directly to Mental Misstep. It's a miserable derp card and is just awful to play with and against. The subgame of bait the misstep is miserable and eternal didn't need anymore free countermagic.

[TheWhiteDragon]

If you want the poster child for lazy design proceed directly to Mental Misstep. It's a miserable derp card and is just awful to play with and against. The subgame of bait the misstep is miserable and eternal didn't need anymore free countermagic.

OMG...brain just melted.  Misstep is GREAT!!!!  It is the perfect way for WotC to 1) blend the color wheel without blending the wheel (anything can pay -2) 2) print a wonderfully narrow free counterspell, 3) push the game beyond turn 1 (and this had impacts across the formats), 4) make a card that is completely balanced offensively and defensively, and 5) offer answers to decks that didn't run power or whatever and whose early game really begins turn 2 (GW fish baring noble/vial).

Given WotC's latest claims about pushing forward GW, it seems this was no mistake.  That's the epitome of thought-out design.

[Templar]

(side note: note that this card can be cast with oath on the stack as a way to make them mill themselves)

This card, like Grafdigger's Cage, replaces the part where the creature actually comes into play.  The Oath player would still stop milling themselves upon revealing the creature.

Or just choose not to Oath. It's a "may."

Exactly.  Some Oath decks, at least, have a handful of main deck answers to her outside of just counterspells (allowing for the existence of Cavern here), so you just have to be patient and hope you don't get 2/X'd out of the game before you can dig into one.

I'm a long time Oath player, and I am not pleased that she exists, but I'll adapt.  It's not as if playing Abrupt Decay (to cite one example) maindeck is a bad thing in Vintage anyway.  Rarely are you at a loss for targets.

[fsecco]

I can say I'm also one of the guys that love Misstep. I think it only works in Vintage (it's a very, very dangerous card in every other format - well, except Commander). But in Vintage it did a great favor of slowing down the game and making Ancestral Recall not that gamebreaking anymore and much more strategic. I love it a lot.

[MaximumCDawg]

Ditto.  Misstep does wonderful things for playing Vintage.

However, that said, it is rapidly becoming an auto-four-of alongside Force of Will in decks that rely on Countermagic for primary disruption.  Whenever I brew nowadays it's 4x Force, 4x Misstep, and then you start to talk about Flusterstorm, Drain, and Spell Pierce.  To that extent, it is a little stifling.

[TheWhiteDragon]

I don't think it's that stifling for blue because other counters are certainly competing for slots.  That said, look at what a great tool it is for all things NOT blue!

[fsecco]

I agree it's an auto 3-of this days, probably 4-of. But I'm willing to sacrifice those slots for versatility and better games overall. Anyway, let's not turn this a discussion about Misstep.

Containment Priest is awesome in ways I can't describe. It even hoses Oath's Lab Maniac sideboard plan vs Cages. <3

[Methuselahn]

Okay everyone, I just got done crunching the numbers.  It turns out that this card is in fact not broken.  It seems to be fairly well designed.  Also, the lady in the artwork looks like my neighbor.  Except my neighbor has eyebrows.  /thread

[hashswag]

While it pains me to combo break that extremely effective /thread, I'm a bit confused about when this will be available. What time (+zone) does Commander 2014 come out on mtgo? And how long is it likely to be until this card is available on bots? Are cards 500% overpriced in the first 2-3 days on MTGO or anything like that?

[MaximumCDawg]

Its released today, November 7, 2014.

[hashswag]

I can't see the decks in the store or the card on any bot listings. Is it released online at a particular time or something?

[vaughnbros]

I can't see the decks in the store or the card on any bot listings. Is it released online at a particular time or something?

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/announcing-magic-gathering-commander

It says today.  The store should have them.

[ErtaiAdept]

Product online usually lags paper product by a week. So if you're looking for them online you may have to wait a bit longer.

[enderfall]

C14 will be sold on MTGO today. There is no lag. Products entering the system on MTGO usually go on sale at 11:00am EST (8:00am PST). They'll be available in a few minutes from this post.

[hashswag]

They've been saying the release date for commander is the same as paper (7th November) for a while. Just asked support and they said in about 2 hours (10am PST).