Beating Pyromancer in KTK

[thisfool]

So, I notice that with treasure cruise in the mix, new pyromancer builds are well positioned to overwhelm the competition with card advantage (and tokens). What are your favorite metagame adjustments to beat these decks?

[msg67183]

Slice and Dice, Golgari Charm, Engineered Plague, Illness in the Ranks

[Protoaddict]

EE, Volcanic Fallout, Izzet Staticaster

There are way more answers to this problem than things that enable the problem.

[JarofFortune]

Winning before Pyromancer gets online works too. There is also playing large finishers off cavern of souls(Kalonian hydra if it's early on, Sphinx of the Steel Wind, Baneslayer Angel, Huntmaster of the fells, elesh Norn.) If you are playing control, Stick in lots of card draw and back it up with the combination of Moat and Intution for triple Lingering Souls. There is also Night of soul's Betrayal and Simoon.

[enderfall]

Also, sweepers like Pyroclasm and Supreme Verdict are becoming more important these days. Verdict in particular is important since it is uncounterable and can even kill the Tinker-bots that people are playing to combat Dack (SotSW, Battleball, and Inkwell).

[Greg]

It's clearly not optimal, but probably worth bringing up in a thread like this. I've thought that Propaganda could potentially have a place in some sideboards with the growth of creature army strategies.

Propaganda seems decent against any aggressive strategy such as Delver or Merfolk, while also having the duality of being able to hamper Dredge, as well.

[TheWhiteDragon]

Night of SOUL'S BETRAYAL

[sirgog]

Slice and Dice is huge. Sorcery for Burning Wish, can't be countered unless the opponent is running a Stifle version, and solves both the short-term issue of Elemental tokens and also the long term cause of Pyromancer. At card advantage, too, unless you had to burn a Lotus or Mana Vault to pay for it.

Another solution is Tremor (if you don't fear Misstep) or any of the various Pyroclasm variants if you do.

Volcanic Fallout is hilarious.

[Coopes]

Killing a field of tokens with Orzhov Pontiff off a cavern was one of my more satisfying feelings in Vintage 

[dragzz]

I've replaced the fire/ice in my main for a copy of Grapeshot and it's been awesome!

[tribet]

Tabernacle because UR doesn't play Wastelands.

I like good old Propaganda too because they have greedy mana base. It dodges Misstep, Fluster, Misdi, Snare, Grudge... but runs straight into REB if they decide to play them main

[sirgog]

Tabernacle because UR doesn't play Wastelands.

I like good old Propaganda too because they have greedy mana base. It dodges Misstep, Fluster, Misdi, Snare, Grudge... but runs straight into REB if they decide to play them main

I would run 4 Crop Rotation for Tabernacle (and Tolarian Academy) if Misstep proliferation wasn't quite so bad.

[Demagoguery]

Could Engineered Plague be the right call if you're expecting Delver/Oath to be the two big decks?

Name Human against Delver and kill their Delver/Pyro when it comes into play.

Name Spirit against Oath to turn off their Orchard tokens.

It's also just a clunky removal spell against various other decks and can wipe out already existing Pyro tokens, plus it's Black so it dodges things like Pyroblast, but it's three mana so things like Decay in Oath still hit it. It's also pretty janky and cute, but you never know.

[Saya]

Circle of Flame?Marrow Shards?
But they can't deal with Delver who will be next to pyromancer and tokens.

[KIP_NZ]

So, I notice that with treasure cruise in the mix, new pyromancer builds are well positioned to overwhelm the competition with card advantage (and tokens). What are your favorite metagame adjustments to beat these decks?

[Phele]

Mystic Remora could do some work. They could actually help to draw your removal, whatever it might be.

[xouman]

Mystic Remora could do some work. They could actually help to draw your removal, whatever it might be.

Maybe remora is an option, but if you play a remora and the gush player has a couple of flipped delvers you are probably not paying the upkeep. Just one delver, or even one pyromancer could put you in the red zone.

[Phele]

True and I would never say that Remora is the tool to beat Delver. But it could be maybe part of a build that has effective weapons against it and it could so help to protect them or to draw into them (effective mass removal or cheap combo parts for example). And it is quite good against Oath and any kind of Dig-Gush-Build too. 

[Tha Gunslinga]

Fire/Ice and Lightning Bolt have been fine for me.

[serracollector]

Something with four oath of druids three pernicious deeds four abrupt decay and two or three suntitan would be my first stab at stopping Cruise Delver decks.

[Kirika]

Used to run Caltrops in keeper back in the day.  Might be time to bring them out again.   Kills Pyromancer and tokens if they attack.  Doesn't do anything about flipped Delver though.