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fsecco
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« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2015, 08:25:29 pm » |
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The thing is, even if you manage to land a Dreadnought in play, I don't think a 12/12 "vanilla" trampler is relevant anymore... I mean, even Repeal deals with this... The kind of manipulation and dedication you'd need to pull this off... That said, I love Manifest. It's one of the finest mechanics they've come up with. Hope this is playable in something like Pauper or Commander so I can use it  |
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Demagoguery
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« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2015, 02:07:40 am » |
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The thing is, even if you manage to land a Dreadnought in play, I don't think a 12/12 "vanilla" trampler is relevant anymore... I mean, even Repeal deals with this... The kind of manipulation and dedication you'd need to pull this off...
Manifest does have the benefit that it's basically drawing you a card and can be used to get rid of dead cards by turning them into 2/2s, so when it does work it's better than Stifle + Naught since it doesn't actually require you to use two cards from hand, and it gives you some protection against Ingot Chewer I guess? The problem is that Manifest requires the card to be on top of your library, and all of the cards that we've seen do it so far have been pretty weak. Additionally you're still using valuable deck slots for Dreadnaughts and Manifest cards... So maybe if we see something that has Manifest and is a lot stronger it could be more viable, but as it stands now I just think it's too weak. |
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Wagner
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« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2015, 10:21:37 am » |
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I just posted the cheaper Manifest cards, but yes, there are stronger ones already. This one allows a 1 shot kill but required double red.  |
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fsecco
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« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2015, 11:03:37 am » |
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That doesn't cut it also... If there comes a card that manifests X or does something like "look at top 5, choose one and manifest that card", then we're talking.
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sirgog
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« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2015, 06:56:36 pm » |
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Abrupt Decay and Repeal will keep any Manifest shenanigns from ever being a big player.
You can get around them (Manifest something that protects itself or that wins you the game immediately, like Emrakul or Iona or Griselbrand, then Momentary Blink it) but doing so is no stronger than just Entomb-Exhuming Griselbrand or Iona.
I do think in Legacy, where Brainstorm is legal as a 4-of, that decks that already want to play Brainstorm might experiment with these shenanigans, however. I don't think they'll be all that good.
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fsecco
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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2015, 09:41:10 am » |
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Here's what you were looking for:  |
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2015, 11:25:35 am » |
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And even then, I'd rather just play Stifle. Or Mask. Or Vision Charm.
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boggyb
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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2015, 11:44:38 am » |
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hahaha
Last I checked, Worldly Tutor is unrestricted. Have at it!
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vaughnbros
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« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2015, 12:34:23 pm » |
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It might be a little narrow to only look at this in cases where stifle, torpor orb, ect. can be used. Manifest also ignores additional costs, and non-triggered ETB effects. I couldn't find anything that I think would be worth cheating in with these two extra cases, but it's something to keep in mind in the future.
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Wagner
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« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2015, 04:29:22 pm » |
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hahaha
Last I checked, Worldly Tutor is unrestricted. Have at it!
As is Sylvan Tutor, wooops, 8 tutors! Only other big creature I can think of is Hunted Horror, which is only 7/7 and requires double black to flip. Nyxathid is also 7/7 for 3 with no drawback  |
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2015, 11:37:53 pm » |
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hahaha
Last I checked, Worldly Tutor is unrestricted. Have at it!
As is Sylvan Tutor, wooops, 8 tutors! Only other big creature I can think of is Hunted Horror, which is only 7/7 and requires double black to flip. Nyxathid is also 7/7 for 3 with no drawback Not that I think it's playable in Vintage, but -- VERY CLEVER. I didn't even notice that Nyxathid required the triggered ability to effect its drawback. Modern....? P.S. Is it time to invest in Conch Horn yet? |
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« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 02:29:46 pm by MaximumCDawg »
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Wagner
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« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2015, 04:43:32 pm » |
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In the same branch  Flips for 2, and becomes a 5/5 creature that will leave 5 tokens. http://magiccards.info/scans/en/jvc/4.jpgSadly no real good morph cards that are cheap to flip with casting cost. |
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2015, 12:21:51 am » |
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Well, there's good ol' Fathom Seer. He's not terrible.
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sirgog
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« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2015, 10:50:22 pm » |
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None of the creatures named are bad off Manifest effects, but none are so good you'd jump through such hoops for them.
In what way is any form of these shenanigans better than Entomb - Exhume into Griselbrand? Remember that is a fringe deck.
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Wagner
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« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2015, 10:30:30 am » |
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None of the creatures named are bad off Manifest effects, but none are so good you'd jump through such hoops for them.
In what way is any form of these shenanigans better than Entomb - Exhume into Griselbrand? Remember that is a fringe deck.
Clearly not the same power level, but also no need for the graveyard and only uses 1 card instead of 2 with a minimum of library manipulation. Not saying this is better than reanimation, but different. But yeah, honestly if that ever has a chance of being good, it need to be in Legacy with 4 Brainstorm, possible in a Counter-Top deck for extra manipulation. |
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