Tasigur, the Golden Fang

[Protoaddict]

Seems incredible to me. A 4/5 body potentially for 1 black mana, with a not unreasonable ability as gravy. I mean what if this guy is basically just a black delver? He looks like a potentially great finisher for Pox style decks, more so that Tombstalker was or even that new fish zombie. Being in the dredge colors does not hurt its chances either, not that I think it will be in dredge but Darkblast sees play.

Also human subtype is very relevant and it dodges Mental Misstep.

[vaughnbros]

He seems solid.  His ability should play nicely with deathrite shaman, as it can keep most of the bad cards out of your GY allowing him to recur better ones.  BUG fish or something similar seems like a decent home for this reason, although green definitely isn't required for him.

[MaximumCDawg]

Its a Gurmag Angler with upside.  What's so exciting about that again?

[gkraigher]

this card has a chance.  i wish his activated ability was a little cheaper, but still, it is some sort of card advantage especially after you delve away cards.  1 black for a 4/5 is pretty good and you can delve away cards to get around spheres (except for trinisphere.) 

[The Atog Lord]

(except for trinisphere.)

Due to a recent change in the rules, you can now Delve through even a Trinisphere.

[gkraigher]

that's good to know. 

[vaughnbros]

Its a Gurmag Angler with upside.  What's so exciting about that again?

Gurmag Angler is an aggro card that probably hits the table just a tad too late.  At 1 less mana and a great late game ability this card is leagues and bounds better.  Its noteworthy that the ability says non-land.  Paying 4 mana to recur/draw gas every turn is absurd late game.

[fsecco]

The only upside I see in this guy is that he could make a delve heavy deck something viable. You could use him to recur important spells like Recall and T Walk while delving irrelevant stuff via Cruise, Dig and Trespass.

[bactgudz]

I haven't figured it out yet, but I feel like there must be some wacky doomsday pile with this guy, though it's probably not very good.  If you only have 1 card in deck+gy you are getting it in hand.

Something like:
Tasigur
Training Grounds
Lotus
something to do with infinite mana

[The Atog Lord]

The problem is that Doomsday cleans out your graveyard, meaning you won't be able to Delver very much for him.

[TheWhiteDragon]

The problem is that Doomsday cleans out your graveyard, meaning you won't be able to Delver very much for him.

Easy, you just delve him into play before casting doomsday.

1) Cantrip a bunch and fill grave
2) Ritual + B, cast this guy then doomsday
3) sell underpants
4) ???
5) use infinite mana to use this guy's ability, hardcast Emrakul and timewalk in the same turn
6) GG.

[MaximumCDawg]

I'm starting to warm up to this card, and it looks like the Standard world is as well.  People are gobbling up the supply and pushing his cost up.  So, let me give this guy a closer look:

A 4/5 is very large in Vintage for things that don't come into play directly from your hand, library, or graveyard.  It competes with Goyf as a large beater around this size.  Goyf, however, comes down early and small and then grows over the game.  Tasigur comes down late, but cheap, and starts out large -- but a Goyf cast at that time would be as large or bigger.  Both are fine topdecks if you're looking to win a race in the mid to late game.  On balance, other than not requiring Green mana, I don't think Tasigur pulls his weight just as a fat butt.  After all, see Tombstalker's recent top 8 performances.

Okay, so it's going to all be about that second ability.  In early game, you won't have spare mana to use it.  Note that his ability does not substitute for doing something relevant from your hand, in the same way that Stoneforge or Deathrite can, because his ability doesn't affect the board.  It's strictly a reload ability for late game.  In that capacity, it's not terrible.  The initial Delve cost, used in late game, means you will have control over what he returns.  It also means you will probably have mana to cast him and use his ability immediately.   Unlike a Planeswalker, though, Tasigur does cost 4 mana to use that ability each turn.  So you can't just yank cards and then cast them all; you'll be hard-pressed to use Tasigur more than once a turn, and then probably on the opponent's end step. 

This suggests to me that Tasigur's natural home is a deck that wants to deploy him as an early or midgame threat and then control the board while he rides to victory.  Such a deck is perfectly happy to use his ability for simple card advantage on the end step and then not do anything else unless it has to.  So it's a BU control deck or something.

There's a problem in that kind of deck, though.   If you're chucking countermagic at the opponent, or targeted removal, then you are likely to have lots of situational cards in your graveyard at any given time.  It seems like this would diminish the utility of Tasigur's utility.  For example, if your opponent can choose between giving you a Flusterstorm, Abrupt Decay, or Force in the late game, and their plan is to resolve a Golem, then they have lots of choices that invalidate your options.

So, my conclusion is this: As a raw beater, he's outclassed.  As a card advantage engine, he wants to be in a control deck, but there, he almost feels like a punisher mechanic.  It's a fine card, but I'm skeptical that it sees any play in Vintage.  Please do prove me wrong, though -- I got my playset cheap.

[enderfall]

Isn't the more natural fit for this guy in those BUG decks that were prevalent pre-Khans? There, Tasigur can replace the 'Goyf/Ooze slot and fill similar, yet different roles ('Goyf is a beat-stick only, Ooze interacts with GY and gained life as it grows). You also get access to DRS which can help shorten your GY and provide your opponent with less choices. The biggest issue to me is that his CMC is 6, and in a deck that uses Bob as it's main CA engine, it can cause you to lose more games than if you used the 2 CMC 'Goyf/Ooze instead. Perhaps as a 1 or 2-of it's not the worst card to use in that deck...

[MaximumCDawg]

He's an either-or with Bob, and I think that's why he goes in a more aggro-control build  He wants to be in a deck that need aggro early on, will develop its mana base, and then needs to keep up the gas later on while maintaining control.  I just don't see how he's the best option for that role.  Bob just seems better to me; you get your early aggression and your late game card draw all at once.  Is being bigger worth it...?

[fsecco]

I like him a lot, just don't know if he's just too slow for Vintage (I think he is).

But you can use him with Deathrite Shaman, other delve spells or even things like Psychatog to be able to recur better spells with his ability. That said, even if you get a spot removal or a Preordain back, that's not that bad.

But trust me: you'll never fully control what you get back. It's better to treat him as a Jayemdae Tome with legs than a "Regrowth".

[MaximumCDawg]

I like him a lot, just don't know if he's just too slow for Vintage (I think he is).

But you can use him with Deathrite Shaman, other delve spells or even things like Psychatog to be able to recur better spells with his ability. That said, even if you get a spot removal or a Preordain back, that's not that bad.

But trust me: you'll never fully control what you get back. It's better to treat him as a Jayemdae Tome with legs than a "Regrowth".

I agree.

He's even slightly worse than that, because you will always get back the worst card for any given situation among the options.  In a deck where all the cards are the same, like a pure aggro or sligh build, then this is almost irrelevant.  In a control build -- which is where he seems to want to be -- it's a big problem.

Now, that said, whatever he gives you he does give you a card.  Remember how Fact or Fiction was good, even though you got the worst cards, because you would typically always get 3 cards if that is what you wanted?  He's kind of like that.

In Modern, however...

[gkraigher]

I'm certain this card is going to make a huge splash at the upcoming modern pro tour.  Especially when pros start referring to him as one of the best cards in the black/green/x decks.  You know, the deck that benefited the most from all the bannings.  

In an aggro-control/creature based vintage deck this card is better than dig through time.  In the actual control decks, I can see him being a sideboard card against the creature decks as a way of blocking ground creatures like goyf and providing some card advantage in a longer game.

I like the card a lot, and the delve mechanic when combined with card drawing/selection has proven to be incredible in the eternal formats.  Albeit his is at a much slower rate, but you do get a 4/5 creature in play.

He will definitely become a legacy card.  As for vintage, I'm certain someone will try him out and have success with him.  But he will not be played in high numbers and warp the format like t.cruise and dig.  

[Protoaddict]

Is dark times just never going to be a deck again? I feel like he would have a home there.

In a control deck if your running a bunch of cantrips you can make your yard very loaded for your opponent in that you may not get the best card, but you will get a good card. Keep in mind that proper delving will empty the yard of the things you do not want to see again.

[MaximumCDawg]

See, I think you both mis-evaluate how powerful his ability really is.  If you are making use of your graveyard through Life from Loam or some other engine, then he might be super great.  But, as printed, he's always going to give you the WORST card from your yard.  True, you can Delve away some of the chaff as he drops, but unless you're DRS is eating the other chaff (conveniently in-color) Tagisur is a reliable source of a "a card" but never the card you really want. 

So, you have to ask whether this is more like Fact or Fiction or more like Browbeat.  I tend to think it's more like Fact, so it's a good card, I'm just thinking its crowded out in Vintage for the kind of things he does.  Legacy seems like as stretch, too, but for a different reason; how many Legacy decks really ever get to a board state where they can toss 2GG / 2UU away each turn on a card draw?  Without power, Legacy manabases are very thin and they tend to want to play 1 and 2 drops for the most part.  I'm skeptical.

But, yes, in Modern I think you can make a serious case for him over Bob if you're going a little more midrangey BUG.

[Protoaddict]

In legacy or modern, I really think this dude is just going to function as a 1 mana card mid game you can protect with counters and that will be strong. Consider him in a mono black list with lilianas and hymns and the like. That is strong enough for those formats, especially modern.

I really do not think that he is comparable to Browbeat or FoF. It is a creature, and a large one at that. Neither of those cards can win you the game on their own. Hell either of those cards can actually wiff, but if your using Tasigur it is because you want a 4/5 first and foremost, not because you want his ability. He blocks things in Mono white humans all day and can get around thalia spheres. He trades with lodestone. He can shrink goyf or remove targets for scavenging. He can even be a sideboard plan for dredge if they want to sandbag into a deck that does not care about cage (Maybe along with angler but i think the cheaper mana wins out)

The ability on him is going to be gravy to a deck that can use it and is not inconsequential if your running jace or brainstorm, but first and foremost, your going to want a creature and that he is.

[Stormanimagus]

In legacy or modern, I really think this dude is just going to function as a 1 mana card mid game you can protect with counters and that will be strong. Consider him in a mono black list with lilianas and hymns and the like. That is strong enough for those formats, especially modern.

I really do not think that he is comparable to Browbeat or FoF. It is a creature, and a large one at that. Neither of those cards can win you the game on their own. Hell either of those cards can actually wiff, but if your using Tasigur it is because you want a 4/5 first and foremost, not because you want his ability. He blocks things in Mono white humans all day and can get around thalia spheres. He trades with lodestone. He can shrink goyf or remove targets for scavenging. He can even be a sideboard plan for dredge if they want to sandbag into a deck that does not care about cage (Maybe along with angler but i think the cheaper mana wins out)

The ability on him is going to be gravy to a deck that can use it and is not inconsequential if your running jace or brainstorm, but first and foremost, your going to want a creature and that he is.

I'm sure this has been said, but it bears repeating: Tasigur is another spellbomb in gifts salvagers lists.

[xouman]

I'm sure this has been said, but it bears repeating: Tasigur is another spellbomb in gifts salvagers lists.

I thought about that, but it's not a spellbomb. It allows fetching for the win condition, and you need to play something as pyrite spellbomb, because if you want to win with other spellbombs the traditional way is drawing and playing all creatures and counterspells and timewalk/empty the board and control. With Tasigur you are not getting all the cards, but half of them, and the opponent chooses what cards. If you choose Tasigur because it combos with infinite mana, you have hundreds of options.

I see difficult to find a home for this card. My best approach could be in BUG, if decided that confidant is bad in the current meta (because of the low toughness or the lifeloss). Still DRS synergizes with Tasigur in play, but makes it hard to being played.

[serracollector]

Your not necessarily getting half the cards because at that point you gonna return any artifacts in the grave and they cant choose a land.

[Protoaddict]

If you have infinite mana he draws you infinite non land cards as you can use his ability when your deck is empty and still get the rest of the effect. Since his ability can also return your spell you cast to your hand right after it resolves, you can just win with a lightning bolt at that point.

Times where you would need that instead of just a spellbomb seem like a corner case to me though, since if they have a null rod out you cannot get infinite in the first place, so it is not like he is an alternative in that situation.

[KanaKaishou]

I'm sure this has been said, but it bears repeating: Tasigur is another spellbomb in gifts salvagers lists.

I thought about that, but it's not a spellbomb. It allows fetching for the win condition, and you need to play something as pyrite spellbomb, because if you want to win with other spellbombs the traditional way is drawing and playing all creatures and counterspells and timewalk/empty the board and control. With Tasigur you are not getting all the cards, but half of them, and the opponent chooses what cards. If you choose Tasigur because it combos with infinite mana, you have hundreds of options.

Not really. Once you have infinite mana, Tasigur turns Ancestral Recall into your kill on the spot (no, they're not going to kill tasigur in the middle as they draw their deck. You have literal infinite counterspells). If you have Noxious Revival in your Gifts+Salvagers list, then Noxious Revival+Thought Scour is a kill. Noxious Revival+Swords+Walk is also a kill (kill all of their creatures, take a 100 extra turns, beat them down, reset your library to lands.

The kill card with Tasigur is Noxious Revival, which then kills them in any number of ways, all of which you'd be playing anyways. Noxious Revival is a reasonable inclusion in any Gifts list, so no, you really don't need a spellbomb once you have infinite mana. As far as "the card which kills them" in Salvagers lists, this one is pretty compact, since as far as I can tell you don't need to do any extra work for him to kill people.

[Protoaddict]

If you have infinite mana, and number of ways will win you the game all while providing utility at the same time. If he is only good in that scenario then he may not be good enough for that list, though I still think he's good elsewhere.

[xouman]

You cannot play Tasigur ability more than 25 times, probably even less, because each time it takes 2 cards from library. I'm not saying you cannot win with 20 activations, but playing 100 times walk with Tasugur seems unreasonable. Maybe I'm losing something or misread the card, but I cannot imagine infinite combos with this card unless playing  Soldevi Digger (first crap card that came to mind) or something with a similar effect.

It seems a card with potential, but I cannot see an infinite combo with it.

[Varal]

You cannot play Tasigur ability more than 25 times, probably even less, because each time it takes 2 cards from library. I'm not saying you cannot win with 20 activations, but playing 100 times walk with Tasugur seems unreasonable. Maybe I'm losing something or misread the card, but I cannot imagine infinite combos with this card unless playing  Soldevi Digger (first crap card that came to mind) or something with a similar effect.

It seems a card with potential, but I cannot see an infinite combo with it.

The second part of the ability isn't conditional on the first part actually succeeding so you'll get a card back even if only 1 or 0 cards were put in you graveyard.

[Saya]

so can we actiavte tasigur infinite times until we gain all the nonland cards of one's library?

[serracollector]

That is correct. Then you cast time walk. then timetwister and repeat til you win with monastery mentor.